E36 M3 - early 3.0 any good?
Discussion
As I've broadened the search for my next car, E36 M3s have started appearing in the results. Now, most of these are early 3.0 versions, and I'm very aware of only looking at stuff that's been cared for, with history, and so on, but my query is, is it worth the extra pennies to get the later 3.2? These would be a real stretch, and the additional performance wouldn't be anything I'd need/use (want is a different matter...) but would I be missing out on anything else worthwhile? I don't consider extra toys to be 'worthwhile' - a better chassis, yes, an air-conditioned glovebox, no.
I'm sure this was debated on here about 10 years ago...
I'm sure this was debated on here about 10 years ago...
I think the 3.2 had some decent extra poke compared to the 3.0, but that was the only thing I really noticed as being significantly different between the two from a quick driving point of view. Certainly, I found the 3.2 was slightly easier to power-slide and at lower revs than the 3.0.
I certainly enjoyed my 3.0 M3 and the following owner enjoyed it even more, even taking it on a trip to Monza and all over Europe.
I certainly enjoyed my 3.0 M3 and the following owner enjoyed it even more, even taking it on a trip to Monza and all over Europe.
I've never driven a 3.0 and I'd imagine in the real world, there isn't anything between them performance wise. There are a number of styling differences - kidney grills, side repeaters, boot spoiler being just three of the obvious ones. As for under the skin tweeks, I'm sure that someone with more knowledge than me will be along shortly to advise you.
I'd say just buy the best you can afford. I'm pretty sure that you won't be disappointed with either choice.
I'd say just buy the best you can afford. I'm pretty sure that you won't be disappointed with either choice.
Personally I would hold out for a 3.2 EVO. Its a much accomplished car IMO.
Forgetting the extra power.
You get better brakes, a quicker steering rack, 6 gears instead of 5, better springs, shocks and anti-roll bars.
But if you have the opportunity of getting a prestine 3 litre over a ropey 3.2, you should take the 3 litre.
Forgetting the extra power.
You get better brakes, a quicker steering rack, 6 gears instead of 5, better springs, shocks and anti-roll bars.
But if you have the opportunity of getting a prestine 3 litre over a ropey 3.2, you should take the 3 litre.
ady702 said:
Thanks! Sounds like the usual advice about buying 15-20 year old cars stands - get the best I can afford and buy on condition.
Yes good 3.0s are ace, I've had 4, I don't rush to evos tho I have had one, not all are quicker, more of mid range urge generally with the 3.2 vs the 3, but the 3 is a bit more of an old school hatch 4 pot 16v type pull, to 5k on the same dyno up to 5k mine is bang on e36 328 grunt, in fact a tad below, then at 5k the power comes in.
Pal of mine works on lots of e36s, his phrase is 'I've never met an Evo I liked' I'm not that bad but I probabally do prefer the 3, but am envious of the 3.2s that do kick out the real power, tho I do currently have an evo track car with 3.0 lump & 5 speed, the 3.2 when bang & 3.0 engine was cheaper & available when needed & the 5 speed is far far cheaper than a 6 speed.
Pal of mine works on lots of e36s, his phrase is 'I've never met an Evo I liked' I'm not that bad but I probabally do prefer the 3, but am envious of the 3.2s that do kick out the real power, tho I do currently have an evo track car with 3.0 lump & 5 speed, the 3.2 when bang & 3.0 engine was cheaper & available when needed & the 5 speed is far far cheaper than a 6 speed.
I can't quite recall where I read this but I believe it was in Autocar a couple of years ago - the verdict was that the Evo (321bhp?) is more fragile than the 3 litre (286-ish bhp?), particularly the gearbox. Not much of a contribution on my part but I seem to remember that they made a big deal of it at the time.
I can't quite recall where I read this but I believe it was in Autocar a couple of years ago - the verdict was that the Evo (321bhp?) is more fragile than the 3 litre (286-ish bhp?), particularly the gearbox. Not much of a contribution on my part but I seem to remember that they made a big deal of it at the time.
I can't quite recall where I read this but I believe it was in Autocar a couple of years ago - the verdict was that the Evo (321bhp?) is more fragile than the 3 litre (286-ish bhp?), particularly the gearbox. Not much of a contribution on my part but I seem to remember that they made a big deal of it at the time.
M3John said:
I've never driven a 3.0 and I'd imagine in the real world, there isn't anything between them performance wise. There are a number of styling differences - kidney grills, side repeaters, boot spoiler being just three of the obvious ones. As for under the skin tweeks, I'm sure that someone with more knowledge than me will be along shortly to advise you.
I'd say just buy the best you can afford. I'm pretty sure that you won't be disappointed with either choice.
I think that the Evo was a 96MY and the facelift (grille and different side repeaters) was a '97MY change. I only say this as I have an August 1996 (96MY) Evo...I'd say just buy the best you can afford. I'm pretty sure that you won't be disappointed with either choice.
Not sure how differently they drive as I have only ever driven Evos.
I would just buy the best one (of either) that you can find! I also think you can buy bits for the 3.0's gearbox but if anything fails on an Evo's it's time for a new / replacement box
Just make sure the car has been properly serviced, bodywork for rust, arches etc. and they can go on forever. Depending on age of these cars now most things suspension wise will be tired and I would advise on keeping some sort of fund for upgrades/replacements.
check out M3Cutters.co.uk forum for sale section as there maybe some well kept examples aswell as BMWOwners.com forum.
check out M3Cutters.co.uk forum for sale section as there maybe some well kept examples aswell as BMWOwners.com forum.
It doesn't really matter any more - they're all old enough to be sheds. The first UK E36 M3's are now 20 years old (1993 K reg) and they degenerate like any other 15-20 year old E36.
The 3 litre is possibly more reliable in old age in terms of the Vanos unit. The 3.0 gearbox is the 525i/328i unit and they never go wrong. The 6 speed Evo box can be a bit clunky when cold and the syncros will get very weak but you'll struggle to actually break one.
There are loads of Evo Coupes about. I think the ones to look out for now are the rare four door Evo saloons and the early 3.0 Coupes in a period colour like Dakar yellow or Violet. Whilst I doubt they'll ever be worth as much as the E30 M3, a nice one should always have a fair value.
The 3 litre is possibly more reliable in old age in terms of the Vanos unit. The 3.0 gearbox is the 525i/328i unit and they never go wrong. The 6 speed Evo box can be a bit clunky when cold and the syncros will get very weak but you'll struggle to actually break one.
There are loads of Evo Coupes about. I think the ones to look out for now are the rare four door Evo saloons and the early 3.0 Coupes in a period colour like Dakar yellow or Violet. Whilst I doubt they'll ever be worth as much as the E30 M3, a nice one should always have a fair value.
I've recently bought a 3.0. Mine is over on readers cars. Lovely engine, yet to drive it far but there is definitely something special about them and that's said having ran an e46m3 as a daily. Mines currently having a few bob thrown at it and I'd expect most to require suspension bushes refresh if not already done.
I've owned an Evo several years ago and am currently building a 3.0 race car.
My evo was definitely quicker but did make 316bhp on a rolling road also felt the more modern of the 2 (owning it years ago might be why) however was quite unreliable I had 2 lots of failed bottom end bearings and a vanos let go. I still have another but make sure I budgeted for having the up-rated bottom end bolts fitted.
My 3.0 cost me £2750 with around 110k miles and whilst not perfect was a reasonable usable car with no rust & loads of history, just the odd mark on the bumpers and wheels wanting a refurb. Interior etc was all good so there are some bargains out there.
My evo was definitely quicker but did make 316bhp on a rolling road also felt the more modern of the 2 (owning it years ago might be why) however was quite unreliable I had 2 lots of failed bottom end bearings and a vanos let go. I still have another but make sure I budgeted for having the up-rated bottom end bolts fitted.
My 3.0 cost me £2750 with around 110k miles and whilst not perfect was a reasonable usable car with no rust & loads of history, just the odd mark on the bumpers and wheels wanting a refurb. Interior etc was all good so there are some bargains out there.
As others have said, a good example of either version is the way to go, rather than purely on engine choice.
The differences have largely been covered, but to summarise:
- Evo has twin oil pickups, 3.0 doesn't
- Evo has vented brakes, 3.0 doesn't
- Evo has better head design, 3.0 needs the Gr.N restrictor for hard use
- Evo has twin VANOS, 3.0 has single. You'll hear people calling it unreliable, it's not really. Cheap enough fix now.
- Evo has Type 210 diff, 3.0 has 188. So it's a bit bigger and a bit stronger. Assume LSD on any is largely worn by now, though.
- Evo has 6 speed, 3.0 has 5. 6 speed box gives better economy, 5 speed is cheaper to buy if you break it.
So, as you can see, the Evo is - as the name suggests - the improved version.
I'd go for (another) Evo out of choice, but wouldn't discount either.
What I would suggest is that you budget for ARP conrod bolts and a bearing check/change if it hasn't already been done - it's good preventative maintenance.
The differences have largely been covered, but to summarise:
- Evo has twin oil pickups, 3.0 doesn't
- Evo has vented brakes, 3.0 doesn't
- Evo has better head design, 3.0 needs the Gr.N restrictor for hard use
- Evo has twin VANOS, 3.0 has single. You'll hear people calling it unreliable, it's not really. Cheap enough fix now.
- Evo has Type 210 diff, 3.0 has 188. So it's a bit bigger and a bit stronger. Assume LSD on any is largely worn by now, though.
- Evo has 6 speed, 3.0 has 5. 6 speed box gives better economy, 5 speed is cheaper to buy if you break it.
So, as you can see, the Evo is - as the name suggests - the improved version.
I'd go for (another) Evo out of choice, but wouldn't discount either.
What I would suggest is that you budget for ARP conrod bolts and a bearing check/change if it hasn't already been done - it's good preventative maintenance.
I've got an Evo, but at the lower end of the price bracket I certainly wouldn't discount a 3.0- Much rather have a good 3.0 than a ratty Evo.
As others have said, the VANOS isn't really a big deal. Even at worst case scenario it's £850 fitted for an uprated recon unit, and the work that's done for this will save you about £200 if you've got an Insp.2 on the horizon.
Buy carefully. They all look shiny, but there is some monumental crap around. I'd class mine as a good one, completely standard and unabused, but if it hasn't been previously owned by an enthusiast you've still got plenty of work to get it up to mintiness...
http://www.pistonheads.co.uk/members/showcar.asp?c...
As others have said, the VANOS isn't really a big deal. Even at worst case scenario it's £850 fitted for an uprated recon unit, and the work that's done for this will save you about £200 if you've got an Insp.2 on the horizon.
Buy carefully. They all look shiny, but there is some monumental crap around. I'd class mine as a good one, completely standard and unabused, but if it hasn't been previously owned by an enthusiast you've still got plenty of work to get it up to mintiness...
http://www.pistonheads.co.uk/members/showcar.asp?c...
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