M3 (E46) CS - manual
Discussion
I'm possibly after a CS for a bit of fun on track - won't be used as a daily - just driving to and from and around track
1/ is the CS worth the small (?) premium over a regular M3?
2/ There's a few cars around with 80-90k miles for approx £11k - would it be putting too much strain on the engine now it's approaching 100k miles??
3/ Would it be money well spent spending a couple more grand and buying one with 50-60k miles?
4/ Can anyone point me in the direction of a good, 'straight' manual CS?
5/ I DO NOT want a Caterham, or similar
Ta
1/ is the CS worth the small (?) premium over a regular M3?
2/ There's a few cars around with 80-90k miles for approx £11k - would it be putting too much strain on the engine now it's approaching 100k miles??
3/ Would it be money well spent spending a couple more grand and buying one with 50-60k miles?
4/ Can anyone point me in the direction of a good, 'straight' manual CS?
5/ I DO NOT want a Caterham, or similar
Ta
2013 said:
I'm possibly after a CS for a bit of fun on track - won't be used as a daily - just driving to and from and around track
1/ is the CS worth the small (?) premium over a regular M3?
2/ There's a few cars around with 80-90k miles for approx £11k - would it be putting too much strain on the engine now it's approaching 100k miles??
3/ Would it be money well spent spending a couple more grand and buying one with 50-60k miles?
4/ Can anyone point me in the direction of a good, 'straight' manual CS?
5/ I DO NOT want a Caterham, or similar
Ta
1/ is the CS worth the small (?) premium over a regular M3?
2/ There's a few cars around with 80-90k miles for approx £11k - would it be putting too much strain on the engine now it's approaching 100k miles??
3/ Would it be money well spent spending a couple more grand and buying one with 50-60k miles?
4/ Can anyone point me in the direction of a good, 'straight' manual CS?
5/ I DO NOT want a Caterham, or similar
Ta
2013 said:
I'm possibly after a CS for a bit of fun on track - won't be used as a daily - just driving to and from and around track
1/ is the CS worth the small (?) premium over a regular M3?
2/ There's a few cars around with 80-90k miles for approx £11k - would it be putting too much strain on the engine now it's approaching 100k miles??
3/ Would it be money well spent spending a couple more grand and buying one with 50-60k miles?
4/ Can anyone point me in the direction of a good, 'straight' manual CS?
5/ I DO NOT want a Caterham, or similar
Ta
For a track u are better off getting a stock E46 M3 Coupe Manual1/ is the CS worth the small (?) premium over a regular M3?
2/ There's a few cars around with 80-90k miles for approx £11k - would it be putting too much strain on the engine now it's approaching 100k miles??
3/ Would it be money well spent spending a couple more grand and buying one with 50-60k miles?
4/ Can anyone point me in the direction of a good, 'straight' manual CS?
5/ I DO NOT want a Caterham, or similar
Ta
Then consider
Upgrading the brakes
Getting the subframe reinforced
This costs £1k for subframe via specialists such as mprove. If the car has FBMWSH and under 10 years old BMW UK will pay for this. U will want this done because track driving will put a lot of stress on these components
Michelin Pilot Sport Cups
And should u wish a roll cage
This is all probably cheaper than getting a M3 CSL and u would go nearly as quick
M3 CS is really a road car and not designed for the track.
Far closer to M3 Coupe than M3 CSL but does have a few M3 CSL parts
Improvements of CS are
CSL rack
CSL brakes
CSL steering wheel in suede/alcantra
CSL hand brake in suede/alcantra
Uprated suspension tweaked to reduce understeer fitted to all M3s 2005 onwards
CSL exhaust manifold which improves power output fitted to all M3s 2005 onwards
CSL alloy wheels though the fronts are slightly narrower on CS. The rears are the same.
Special paint option of Interlagos Blue Metallic Paint.
The biggest benefits of CS are the CSL steering rack and available in BMW Manual Gearbox. These changes make it a better road car rather than equip better for the track.
Whether u buy M3 Coupe/CS/CSL u will want to check subframe for cracks has been checked and reinforced either by BMW UK or a specialist. BMW UK will repair for free provided is standard, FBMWSH, and apparently under 10 years old.
Good luck :-)
PS should u wish to use as regular track car biggest issues to attend are better brakes, subframe reinforced, Michelin Pilot Sport Cup tyres. And if u wish to be more extreme fit a roll cage and fire extinguisher and strip the interior and remove sound deadening to save weight.
Far closer to M3 Coupe than M3 CSL but does have a few M3 CSL parts
Improvements of CS are
CSL rack
CSL brakes
CSL steering wheel in suede/alcantra
CSL hand brake in suede/alcantra
Uprated suspension tweaked to reduce understeer fitted to all M3s 2005 onwards
CSL exhaust manifold which improves power output fitted to all M3s 2005 onwards
CSL alloy wheels though the fronts are slightly narrower on CS. The rears are the same.
Special paint option of Interlagos Blue Metallic Paint.
The biggest benefits of CS are the CSL steering rack and available in BMW Manual Gearbox. These changes make it a better road car rather than equip better for the track.
Whether u buy M3 Coupe/CS/CSL u will want to check subframe for cracks has been checked and reinforced either by BMW UK or a specialist. BMW UK will repair for free provided is standard, FBMWSH, and apparently under 10 years old.
Good luck :-)
PS should u wish to use as regular track car biggest issues to attend are better brakes, subframe reinforced, Michelin Pilot Sport Cup tyres. And if u wish to be more extreme fit a roll cage and fire extinguisher and strip the interior and remove sound deadening to save weight.
161BMW said:
M3 CS is really a road car and not designed for the track.
Far closer to M3 Coupe than M3 CSL but does have a few M3 CSL parts
Improvements of CS are
CSL rack
CSL brakes
CSL steering wheel in suede/alcantra
CSL hand brake in suede/alcantra
Uprated suspension tweaked to reduce understeer fitted to all M3s 2005 onwards
CSL exhaust manifold which improves power output fitted to all M3s 2005 onwards
CSL alloy wheels though the fronts are slightly narrower on CS. The rears are the same.
Special paint option of Interlagos Blue Metallic Paint.
The biggest benefits of CS are the CSL steering rack and available in BMW Manual Gearbox. These changes make it a better road car rather than equip better for the track.
Whether u buy M3 Coupe/CS/CSL u will want to check subframe for cracks has been checked and reinforced either by BMW UK or a specialist. BMW UK will repair for free provided is standard, FBMWSH, and apparently under 10 years old.
Good luck :-)
PS should u wish to use as regular track car biggest issues to attend are better brakes, subframe reinforced, Michelin Pilot Sport Cup tyres. And if u wish to be more extreme fit a roll cage and fire extinguisher and strip the interior and remove sound deadening to save weight.
Sounds like good advice to me, although IIRC the wheels on the CS aren't the same as the fancy lightweight ones on the CSL - effectively the same style but made of different materials. Far closer to M3 Coupe than M3 CSL but does have a few M3 CSL parts
Improvements of CS are
CSL rack
CSL brakes
CSL steering wheel in suede/alcantra
CSL hand brake in suede/alcantra
Uprated suspension tweaked to reduce understeer fitted to all M3s 2005 onwards
CSL exhaust manifold which improves power output fitted to all M3s 2005 onwards
CSL alloy wheels though the fronts are slightly narrower on CS. The rears are the same.
Special paint option of Interlagos Blue Metallic Paint.
The biggest benefits of CS are the CSL steering rack and available in BMW Manual Gearbox. These changes make it a better road car rather than equip better for the track.
Whether u buy M3 Coupe/CS/CSL u will want to check subframe for cracks has been checked and reinforced either by BMW UK or a specialist. BMW UK will repair for free provided is standard, FBMWSH, and apparently under 10 years old.
Good luck :-)
PS should u wish to use as regular track car biggest issues to attend are better brakes, subframe reinforced, Michelin Pilot Sport Cup tyres. And if u wish to be more extreme fit a roll cage and fire extinguisher and strip the interior and remove sound deadening to save weight.
There are also specialists (look on M3 Cutters) who can perform subframe repairs/reinforcement if BMW won't.
_Neal_ said:
Sounds like good advice to me, although IIRC the wheels on the CS aren't the same as the fancy lightweight ones on the CSL - effectively the same style but made of different materials
Not that I know of, and they're not magnesium as so many vendors used to claim. Rears are identical, fronts are a half-inch wider as stated by 161 above - 8J on the CS vs 8.5J on the CSLrix said:
That is a fellow enthusiasts car from M3cutters and has been cherished. Buy it quick before its nabbed by a speculator perhaps. Fitting 18in wheels has a big effect on improving the steering and handling of the E46 M3. Good luck.
Stingercut said:
That is a fellow enthusiasts car from M3cutters and has been cherished. Buy it quick before its nabbed by a speculator perhaps. Fitting 18in wheels has a big effect on improving the steering and handling of the E46 M3. Good luck.
I think this is a May 2006 Build M3 CS ...: if so would be the the final month of production for this .... Making this even rarer.2013 said:
Thanks for the replies guys. Points taken re standard M3 might be a better buy vfm. Glad i asked the question - never knew about the 'subframe' issues.
standard M3 makes much more sense for track driving. use the CS premium on the following upgrades and you will love itHSD Coilovers (Nurburgring edition 12kg/12kg) - 775 GBP
Poly bushes all around - 400 GBP
Subframe reinforcement - 450 GBP
Stainless steel brake lines - 60 GBP
CSL front discs - 220 GBP
Brembo calipers (front and rear) - 400 GBP
Cliper brackets - 300 GBP
Carbone Loraine pads - 300 GBP
Bucket seats (the standard ones are way too heavy)
gaz1234 said:
i dont see the point tbh. standard or csl
CSL steering rack is quite a major point IMO, not cheap to retrofit that. Plus you get the rims and suede bits if that's your thing. It's no CSL but then it's 15k cheaper!CSL/CS rear rims have the same part number, fronts as said are 1/2" thinner
MOTK said:
CSL steering rack is quite a major point IMO, not cheap to retrofit that. Plus you get the rims and suede bits if that's your thing. It's no CSL but then it's 15k cheaper!
CSL/CS rear rims have the same part number, fronts as said are 1/2" thinner
And CSL brakesCSL/CS rear rims have the same part number, fronts as said are 1/2" thinner
All the reviews when the CSL was new say they are good but for track days I hear they are not.
Are Pagid pads available through BMW Dealers with the standard brake discs as an upgrade ????
Good thread!
If i was in your position i would probably be looking at buy a unmolested manual standard m3, thats up on the miles a bit but had all of the servicing you would ask for and dead cheap!
I like this one..
http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/b...
Im with OXAM on the mods.
Brakes are the biggest problem regardless of it being a normal/CS or CSL buy decent calipers - and all that money you save buying a noraml M3 over a CSL will be made useful! (brembo, alcon, AP, Willwood etc. are the way to go - not cheap i know, but the standard ones are barely fit for purpose - CSL or not) let alone track abuse!
I used to track my Z4MC, (which runs CSL brakes) with RBF660 brake fluid + DS2500 pads - it still used to fade etc!
The problem is not really the disc size etc but its the fact the calipers are single pot sliders that causes issues, My E92 M3 has exactly the same problems!
If a big brake kit is not an option for you and this is just going to be a track car, weight loss is a good place to start along with Z4M calipers/CSL discs, good pads and Competition fluid - there are loads of areas you can lose weight in the E46 - the whole interior for a start weighs about a 2.5 tonnes (roughly) so you can drop weight quite quickly without cutting your car apart (and it means oyur interiro is still mint when you come to sell the car (or sell the interior to buy more fun parts :-) )
Obviously there are other areas you need to keep an eye on such as rear subframe mounts but generally the E46 and S54 engine are pretty solid when serviced correctly, the only area to really look out for the on th S54 engine (apart from the usual load of sensors and possible vanos rattle) is the head gasket - this can go due the lack of surface between cylinders, but generally not a 'common' problem - it has been known to happen though.
No matter what you do.... im sure it will be fun!!!! :-)
HTH
If i was in your position i would probably be looking at buy a unmolested manual standard m3, thats up on the miles a bit but had all of the servicing you would ask for and dead cheap!
I like this one..
http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/b...
Im with OXAM on the mods.
Brakes are the biggest problem regardless of it being a normal/CS or CSL buy decent calipers - and all that money you save buying a noraml M3 over a CSL will be made useful! (brembo, alcon, AP, Willwood etc. are the way to go - not cheap i know, but the standard ones are barely fit for purpose - CSL or not) let alone track abuse!
I used to track my Z4MC, (which runs CSL brakes) with RBF660 brake fluid + DS2500 pads - it still used to fade etc!
The problem is not really the disc size etc but its the fact the calipers are single pot sliders that causes issues, My E92 M3 has exactly the same problems!
If a big brake kit is not an option for you and this is just going to be a track car, weight loss is a good place to start along with Z4M calipers/CSL discs, good pads and Competition fluid - there are loads of areas you can lose weight in the E46 - the whole interior for a start weighs about a 2.5 tonnes (roughly) so you can drop weight quite quickly without cutting your car apart (and it means oyur interiro is still mint when you come to sell the car (or sell the interior to buy more fun parts :-) )
Obviously there are other areas you need to keep an eye on such as rear subframe mounts but generally the E46 and S54 engine are pretty solid when serviced correctly, the only area to really look out for the on th S54 engine (apart from the usual load of sensors and possible vanos rattle) is the head gasket - this can go due the lack of surface between cylinders, but generally not a 'common' problem - it has been known to happen though.
No matter what you do.... im sure it will be fun!!!! :-)
HTH
M3, M3 CS or CSL will all need suspension and brakes upgraded for track use. CSL isn't much cop in standard form despite what you will read on here.
As above, based on your intended usage buy an unmolested example and check for regular oil changes (every 2 years is too long) and look for a cheaper example with grey leather for a discounted price. Then start spending the money saved on upgrades.
As above, based on your intended usage buy an unmolested example and check for regular oil changes (every 2 years is too long) and look for a cheaper example with grey leather for a discounted price. Then start spending the money saved on upgrades.
Edited by daz05 on Tuesday 5th March 17:20
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