Insurance write off payout.
Discussion
I have recently written of my car M3 and the SOB's will only pay a crap amount.
Why will the insurance not alow me to use this website as a comparitive website for a fair price. They said Auto Trader and Ebay, when i refused the amount they are now stating Auto Trader and Exchange and mart. UMMM WTH is going on.
I found 4 cars on ebay and now they rejected those amount. I found 3 cars on pistonheads and they have rejected those.
Now I have looked on Exhange and mart, nothing for sale for a 98 model M3 and autotrader has several but not in the same year.
Am I mug to follow the insurance reasonings IE autotrader and exchange and mart and nothing else or will most private seller locally to me be accepted. I find this very unreasonable that I have to go to 2 websites only. Their has to be a law somewhere, with regards to a reasonable offer and guide lines that all parties must follow. Especially what is and what's not acceptable as a fair comparitive site and price guide.
Please for the love of god dont say FOS.!!! Yea, i am aware of this route but I would like to avoid this route.
thank you.
Why will the insurance not alow me to use this website as a comparitive website for a fair price. They said Auto Trader and Ebay, when i refused the amount they are now stating Auto Trader and Exchange and mart. UMMM WTH is going on.
I found 4 cars on ebay and now they rejected those amount. I found 3 cars on pistonheads and they have rejected those.
Now I have looked on Exhange and mart, nothing for sale for a 98 model M3 and autotrader has several but not in the same year.
Am I mug to follow the insurance reasonings IE autotrader and exchange and mart and nothing else or will most private seller locally to me be accepted. I find this very unreasonable that I have to go to 2 websites only. Their has to be a law somewhere, with regards to a reasonable offer and guide lines that all parties must follow. Especially what is and what's not acceptable as a fair comparitive site and price guide.
Please for the love of god dont say FOS.!!! Yea, i am aware of this route but I would like to avoid this route.
thank you.
I thought Glass's guide was more of a 'industry standard' way for deciding on value, based on a 3rd party opinion?
A car will likely sell for less than it's advertised for on Autotrader/E&M/etc., due to people haggling. Hence, I expect it's a poor way to estimate car value - things like p/x will also affect what cars sell for obviously.
Can you give us some more details?....
What's the car worth to you (what condition is it in, any recent major work you could prove with receipts)?
What did you insure it for?
What does Glass's say (you'll need to pay a small fee - worth doing)?
What is your car shifting for on classifieds?
Are you aware of the 'completed items' view on eBay allowing you to see recently sold auctioned cars? Any recent comparable cars?
A car will likely sell for less than it's advertised for on Autotrader/E&M/etc., due to people haggling. Hence, I expect it's a poor way to estimate car value - things like p/x will also affect what cars sell for obviously.
Can you give us some more details?....
What's the car worth to you (what condition is it in, any recent major work you could prove with receipts)?
What did you insure it for?
What does Glass's say (you'll need to pay a small fee - worth doing)?
What is your car shifting for on classifieds?
Are you aware of the 'completed items' view on eBay allowing you to see recently sold auctioned cars? Any recent comparable cars?
Dealers, buyers, insurance companies always use different guides to suit their needs. Go and sell a car to a dealer and they'll no doubt use Parkers to price it, or at best the lowest prices available on AT. Then when they want to sell they'll be spouting the highest prices in the Glass's guide or prices off PH. Whichever suits them best. Same goes for insurance companies.
Thank you for your input here is the reply to your questions.
Insurance company asked me about the car and any mod's. Ans- The engine has been replaced by BMW for £9,000 in 2001 making this a Z3M model engine as per the REALoem website and BMW techs. The engine has covered 52k max but car has done 128k. The reason for the engine was because of the vanous lol.
The insurance company had agreed to insure the car for £8,000 because of the engine recipt that i gave them with a LIFE TIME TRACKER which is transferrable to the new custome. The tracker has a 2 system tracking with a dummy fitted to fool the theif.
The car is Estoril Blue with no scratches at all no rust and no dents. The roof is intact with no rips and fully functional with auto closing feature.
Full service history with paperwork trail from day one with orginal spec sheet.
I valued the car for atleast £5,600 this covers the engine for £2,400 for which they sell for on Fleebay. so in theory without the engine change i guess £3,200 which i believe to been under valued hugely. Hence why the insurance company had insured the car for £8,000. This was agreed with the insurance company and underwriters.!!! However my policy does not should that a agreed value was not imposed until now after the accident.
The car had all BMW inspection done both 1 + 2 with oil service in between with BMW stamps.
However should the insurance company force me to find a car via AT and or E+Mart.???? I find this unacceptable should this be the case. Every car I had found was inexcess of £4,500 and half of them do not have a paper trail which is what I buy should the car that interests me.
Furthermore I am not in possession of the BMW as the insurance took the car from me to have it Xray'd and inspected. This whole fiasco has been since november 2012 and I still do not have my car. They would not proceed with the claim without the car in their possession. Now I am being slapped with a Road TAX fine since December till now.
Insurance company asked me about the car and any mod's. Ans- The engine has been replaced by BMW for £9,000 in 2001 making this a Z3M model engine as per the REALoem website and BMW techs. The engine has covered 52k max but car has done 128k. The reason for the engine was because of the vanous lol.
The insurance company had agreed to insure the car for £8,000 because of the engine recipt that i gave them with a LIFE TIME TRACKER which is transferrable to the new custome. The tracker has a 2 system tracking with a dummy fitted to fool the theif.
The car is Estoril Blue with no scratches at all no rust and no dents. The roof is intact with no rips and fully functional with auto closing feature.
Full service history with paperwork trail from day one with orginal spec sheet.
I valued the car for atleast £5,600 this covers the engine for £2,400 for which they sell for on Fleebay. so in theory without the engine change i guess £3,200 which i believe to been under valued hugely. Hence why the insurance company had insured the car for £8,000. This was agreed with the insurance company and underwriters.!!! However my policy does not should that a agreed value was not imposed until now after the accident.
The car had all BMW inspection done both 1 + 2 with oil service in between with BMW stamps.
However should the insurance company force me to find a car via AT and or E+Mart.???? I find this unacceptable should this be the case. Every car I had found was inexcess of £4,500 and half of them do not have a paper trail which is what I buy should the car that interests me.
Furthermore I am not in possession of the BMW as the insurance took the car from me to have it Xray'd and inspected. This whole fiasco has been since november 2012 and I still do not have my car. They would not proceed with the claim without the car in their possession. Now I am being slapped with a Road TAX fine since December till now.
I forgot, what is this your talking about completed items on Ebay. I am not aware of this. Please eleborate this sounds interesting. thank you.
Just found it. Yes i see some cars but nothing of any real clarity to the same or similar to what I have lost.
Kinda suks lol. worth a shoot but no cigar.
Just found it. Yes i see some cars but nothing of any real clarity to the same or similar to what I have lost.
Kinda suks lol. worth a shoot but no cigar.
Edited by charlton2007 on Tuesday 12th March 07:52
you're not going to like this - but i was in a similar position a year ago.
My immaculate 1997 M3 E36 Evo was declared a write off despite it only being suspension damage.
i argued long and hard with the insurers. the chap who came out to assess it took no real interest in its condition etc. he prob sees hundreds of written off cars a week (even the RAC recovery man saying it looked immaculate and he could even still smell the leather inside) it was just another wreck to him - not my last 6 years worth of labour of love.
i scanned and emailed every bill/receipt/mot i had to them - got loads of different valuations - they simply weren't interested. they wouldn't even budge £50 either way, never mind £500! their view was take it or leave it.
Oh, and if you want to take the cash and the car - you get an even worse deal than just cash and walk away. i hope it's a cat C not D write off. cat C is a worse write off but it works out better if you buy the car back off them as its cheaper to buy it.
Always buy it back - lots of reclaim money in parts. Alternatively, i put mine back on the road with a specialist BMW garage doing all the repairs and full geo alignment set up etc. it's as good as it ever was.....but is now completly worthless.
your last chance is to pay (out of your own money) for your own indep valuation. but bear in mind it could end up being the bloke who came out and saw it the first time and valued it for diddly squat - they are independent valuers and cover a geographical patch so no guarantee you're going to get an enthusiast....and even then the ins co can still disagree with the valuation.
Like you - i think i originally had it insured for £9,000 - but dont think they even gave me half that in the end! i said it was unfair that they insured it at that level, but paid me out less - they said it was my fault for not keeping abreast with valuations and that £9,000 was over optimistic and i should have lowered it each year....
i should have just bent over dropped my cacks and let them run at me with a red hot poker - it would have been less painful. Oh, and they are a very well known insurer - i've been with them 10 years - appear at the top of a lot of the fourms if you know who i mean......
My immaculate 1997 M3 E36 Evo was declared a write off despite it only being suspension damage.
i argued long and hard with the insurers. the chap who came out to assess it took no real interest in its condition etc. he prob sees hundreds of written off cars a week (even the RAC recovery man saying it looked immaculate and he could even still smell the leather inside) it was just another wreck to him - not my last 6 years worth of labour of love.
i scanned and emailed every bill/receipt/mot i had to them - got loads of different valuations - they simply weren't interested. they wouldn't even budge £50 either way, never mind £500! their view was take it or leave it.
Oh, and if you want to take the cash and the car - you get an even worse deal than just cash and walk away. i hope it's a cat C not D write off. cat C is a worse write off but it works out better if you buy the car back off them as its cheaper to buy it.
Always buy it back - lots of reclaim money in parts. Alternatively, i put mine back on the road with a specialist BMW garage doing all the repairs and full geo alignment set up etc. it's as good as it ever was.....but is now completly worthless.
your last chance is to pay (out of your own money) for your own indep valuation. but bear in mind it could end up being the bloke who came out and saw it the first time and valued it for diddly squat - they are independent valuers and cover a geographical patch so no guarantee you're going to get an enthusiast....and even then the ins co can still disagree with the valuation.
Like you - i think i originally had it insured for £9,000 - but dont think they even gave me half that in the end! i said it was unfair that they insured it at that level, but paid me out less - they said it was my fault for not keeping abreast with valuations and that £9,000 was over optimistic and i should have lowered it each year....
i should have just bent over dropped my cacks and let them run at me with a red hot poker - it would have been less painful. Oh, and they are a very well known insurer - i've been with them 10 years - appear at the top of a lot of the fourms if you know who i mean......
JMRS4 said:
ALWAYS ALWAYS take out "GAP INSURANCE" it pays big.
Entirely irrelevant. Gap insurance only covers the difference between payout and amount owing in finance.The insurers are obliged to out you in the position you were in prior to the accident, so should pay out on the basis of what it would cost you to buy an equivalent car, not necessarily the 'value' of that car. Stick to your guns OP and they'll eventually concede more (speaking from experience).
Rabbo said:
Entirely irrelevant. Gap insurance only covers the difference between payout and amount owing in finance.
The insurers are obliged to out you in the position you were in prior to the accident, so should pay out on the basis of what it would cost you to buy an equivalent car, not necessarily the 'value' of that car. Stick to your guns OP and they'll eventually concede more (speaking from experience).
Not so - true Return to Invoice Gap Insurance - returns you to the financial position you were at when you purchased the car.The insurers are obliged to out you in the position you were in prior to the accident, so should pay out on the basis of what it would cost you to buy an equivalent car, not necessarily the 'value' of that car. Stick to your guns OP and they'll eventually concede more (speaking from experience).
With relation to all your thoughts and feelings, It just so happens a member touched briefly on a subject which I forgot about. That is - Agreed Value. This is never mention via the insurance comapnies as this hurts them alot more.
When I quote a price and the insurance company had agreed to insure the value with the underwriters it was set in stone so i thought that I would get closer the a better figure than apposed to a £2k payout.
Well, SOD's law i did not check at all on my policy to ensure this was enforced and to my horror it is not. They have not icluded this agreed value but the policy clearly shows its covered upto £8,000.
I have sent their company a full request in full disclosure of their version of agreed settlement plans and evidence to support their claims. Alas to no avail have I received any backup of their claims or where I can find a car for £2.5k > £3k.
I have given them 48 hours to come to a conclusion as I feel this will placed infront of the FOS for adjudication where I could potential lose my claim again. However, I have tried my best to cover my back and recorded all conversations to and from all parties involved and politly said this is being recorded for my refence and the response i get is, we are recording too. GOOD then no lies will ensue then.:P
Believe it or not my brokers are the only sorce of contact I have as the insurance company are refusing to phone me FULL STOP. I have wasted about £95 in phone calls to the insurance company and getting rather annoyed.
Yes I am in the process of obtaiing my own evaluation the only thing that is slowing this up is that everyone is placing their cars on Pistonheads but none can be found on Autotrader or Exchange and mart. If there are any, they are asking for a way to low cash amount hence being forced on a £2.5k settlement or less. Pistonheads quotes to the insurance are being refused left right and centre. But can anyone explain to me why the insurance company will not accept all submissions of all website and roadside sale values as a price. Is their a law where they can dictate where I have to find a price for my car.??? Or is it them just being plain Bar stewards and stiffing me with a red hot pole.
I really thank you for taking time to put your voices across and pennies in but should we be a real victim to the scandelous insurance companies. Personally I would love PH to add their pics to ATraders site then I can stuff it to my insurance company the prices that are on here is what they should pay up. LOL wishful thinking cry... SOB SOB SNARF SNARF...
When I quote a price and the insurance company had agreed to insure the value with the underwriters it was set in stone so i thought that I would get closer the a better figure than apposed to a £2k payout.
Well, SOD's law i did not check at all on my policy to ensure this was enforced and to my horror it is not. They have not icluded this agreed value but the policy clearly shows its covered upto £8,000.
I have sent their company a full request in full disclosure of their version of agreed settlement plans and evidence to support their claims. Alas to no avail have I received any backup of their claims or where I can find a car for £2.5k > £3k.
I have given them 48 hours to come to a conclusion as I feel this will placed infront of the FOS for adjudication where I could potential lose my claim again. However, I have tried my best to cover my back and recorded all conversations to and from all parties involved and politly said this is being recorded for my refence and the response i get is, we are recording too. GOOD then no lies will ensue then.:P
Believe it or not my brokers are the only sorce of contact I have as the insurance company are refusing to phone me FULL STOP. I have wasted about £95 in phone calls to the insurance company and getting rather annoyed.
Yes I am in the process of obtaiing my own evaluation the only thing that is slowing this up is that everyone is placing their cars on Pistonheads but none can be found on Autotrader or Exchange and mart. If there are any, they are asking for a way to low cash amount hence being forced on a £2.5k settlement or less. Pistonheads quotes to the insurance are being refused left right and centre. But can anyone explain to me why the insurance company will not accept all submissions of all website and roadside sale values as a price. Is their a law where they can dictate where I have to find a price for my car.??? Or is it them just being plain Bar stewards and stiffing me with a red hot pole.
I really thank you for taking time to put your voices across and pennies in but should we be a real victim to the scandelous insurance companies. Personally I would love PH to add their pics to ATraders site then I can stuff it to my insurance company the prices that are on here is what they should pay up. LOL wishful thinking cry... SOB SOB SNARF SNARF...
Rabbo said:
Entirely irrelevant. Gap insurance only covers the difference between payout and amount owing in finance.
The insurers are obliged to out you in the position you were in prior to the accident, so should pay out on the basis of what it would cost you to buy an equivalent car, not necessarily the 'value' of that car. Stick to your guns OP and they'll eventually concede more (speaking from experience).
This is YOUR experience is it, well for your information, my wife wrote off her car and got almost new money in total for a 3 year old ford, so that puts your theory out of window .The insurers are obliged to out you in the position you were in prior to the accident, so should pay out on the basis of what it would cost you to buy an equivalent car, not necessarily the 'value' of that car. Stick to your guns OP and they'll eventually concede more (speaking from experience).
New interesting developement.
The car is no longer with the garage today, it has been assumed to of been collect4d by a salavage company but no names were given as to by whom. This was found out today about 1 hour ago and with the tracking system installed and still active and no movement alert was triggered.
To avoid triggering the system tracker is one of 2 possiblilties and they are as followes. :
1, the car was driven away, (but the car was on the back of a trailer.Hmmm)or Ignition was kept live but not running or placed in a lead based ish container and then transported.
2, The person mooving the vehicle maybe using a UHF jammer with other tools to hide all versions of signal scramberling.
I spoke to tracker and no alert was made and the battery is still good.hmmmm.
I spoke to the garage, they have no name to whom took the car.
Spoke to the police and they have now said, accident > insurance > moving well,, they own the car. no they dont we have not had payment nor have we fully agreed if the car is a write off. Its all to be still confirmed.when i say confirmed, i mean I have had no vehicle report to say what damages the car may have suffered. however, I can say the RPS system was triggered but was reset by myself and causes no problems to the car and eeh car pulls a little to the left and the car does still drive like it should with a little left pull.hmmm nice.
spoke to my brokrse seeing the insurance refuses to talk to us let alone contact us directly and they have not been told either weather the car had been moved or not. They speak to the insurance on a 2 day basis and nothing was ever mentioned about the car being moved.
So I ask you, WTH is going. Thsi feels like a good dam PRANK.
I am a little more puzzled as to why the tracker did not activate.!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! where the hell is the car.!!!!!!!
The car is no longer with the garage today, it has been assumed to of been collect4d by a salavage company but no names were given as to by whom. This was found out today about 1 hour ago and with the tracking system installed and still active and no movement alert was triggered.
To avoid triggering the system tracker is one of 2 possiblilties and they are as followes. :
1, the car was driven away, (but the car was on the back of a trailer.Hmmm)or Ignition was kept live but not running or placed in a lead based ish container and then transported.
2, The person mooving the vehicle maybe using a UHF jammer with other tools to hide all versions of signal scramberling.
I spoke to tracker and no alert was made and the battery is still good.hmmmm.
I spoke to the garage, they have no name to whom took the car.
Spoke to the police and they have now said, accident > insurance > moving well,, they own the car. no they dont we have not had payment nor have we fully agreed if the car is a write off. Its all to be still confirmed.when i say confirmed, i mean I have had no vehicle report to say what damages the car may have suffered. however, I can say the RPS system was triggered but was reset by myself and causes no problems to the car and eeh car pulls a little to the left and the car does still drive like it should with a little left pull.hmmm nice.
spoke to my brokrse seeing the insurance refuses to talk to us let alone contact us directly and they have not been told either weather the car had been moved or not. They speak to the insurance on a 2 day basis and nothing was ever mentioned about the car being moved.
So I ask you, WTH is going. Thsi feels like a good dam PRANK.
I am a little more puzzled as to why the tracker did not activate.!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! where the hell is the car.!!!!!!!
Edited by charlton2007 on Wednesday 13th March 18:16
With my old insurance policy on the e36 M3 I had to take pics of the car, any relevant paperwork for big bills and pay £20 for them to agree a valuation - even then they would be able to make adjustments to current market value.
I don't think it's reasonable on your part to value the car at £8k - much as I like the e36 M3, no cab with 128k miles is going to be worth anywhere near that. Asking prices and selling prices are very different, I've seen a couple of overpriced cabs from a trader in Manchester that have been for sale for well over a year, possibly 2. Also I don't think an engine change that took place 12 years ago is going to have any real bearing on todays value? If you'd put £800 worth of tyres on it the day before the accident, doesn't make the car worth £800 more. Hopefully you'll be able to buy it back from them and fix it, then use a specialist insurer next time. Good luck.
I don't think it's reasonable on your part to value the car at £8k - much as I like the e36 M3, no cab with 128k miles is going to be worth anywhere near that. Asking prices and selling prices are very different, I've seen a couple of overpriced cabs from a trader in Manchester that have been for sale for well over a year, possibly 2. Also I don't think an engine change that took place 12 years ago is going to have any real bearing on todays value? If you'd put £800 worth of tyres on it the day before the accident, doesn't make the car worth £800 more. Hopefully you'll be able to buy it back from them and fix it, then use a specialist insurer next time. Good luck.
Thanh you for your input about the car valueation but this is what the insurance had said £8,000 but i do understand your info. As i tried to point out, the car is about £5.500 standard but with the life time tracker £300 min on top with no further subcriptions and the engine itself to buy second hand is at £2,000 minimum. This is why the insurance company had said £8,000 hope this clear things up. I am only passing on what the insurance company said when i took out my cover.
However in relation to the previous comments and my last post. It turns out the car has been re-found eventually. The insurance company had removed the car from the garage and failed to notify myself or the brokers about there intentions. where the insurance company has failed to further all information about the car overal condidition and is suspected damages, where are unable to asses wether the car is recoverable/salvageable. With a report to work from I would like to know where the damages stand. I can only remember the damages covering 3 wheels 2 tyres 1 rear plastic screen small crack in front bumper and small welding job needed to relocate the front strut.
All of this has been quoted to by my local garage as a base rate of £1379.00. However i need to know if this all the damages that are present. Yet the insurance company will not confirm their findings. Further to this I have now found out the car no longer has water in its system and the car has been driven in this state, the car battery is now dead along with the tracker unit. so now the car is unlocked in some repects with no alarm or trackig ability and it is also suspected the car may have received further body damage to boot.
Now I am really concerned about the overal condition of the car. I need input as to wether I have the right to pull the car out of the salvage/storage and bring it back home where i can keep it under lock and key. Just to point out the insurance company have not been in contact with me since 2 months ago and i have sent about 5 emails to cover both brokers and insurance company requesting comms to resume. The only feedback I am getting is from my brokers and they have been very supportive, but with the last paragraph I have heard nothing. Please can i have some constructive comments about what my option are from this point on.
However in relation to the previous comments and my last post. It turns out the car has been re-found eventually. The insurance company had removed the car from the garage and failed to notify myself or the brokers about there intentions. where the insurance company has failed to further all information about the car overal condidition and is suspected damages, where are unable to asses wether the car is recoverable/salvageable. With a report to work from I would like to know where the damages stand. I can only remember the damages covering 3 wheels 2 tyres 1 rear plastic screen small crack in front bumper and small welding job needed to relocate the front strut.
All of this has been quoted to by my local garage as a base rate of £1379.00. However i need to know if this all the damages that are present. Yet the insurance company will not confirm their findings. Further to this I have now found out the car no longer has water in its system and the car has been driven in this state, the car battery is now dead along with the tracker unit. so now the car is unlocked in some repects with no alarm or trackig ability and it is also suspected the car may have received further body damage to boot.
Now I am really concerned about the overal condition of the car. I need input as to wether I have the right to pull the car out of the salvage/storage and bring it back home where i can keep it under lock and key. Just to point out the insurance company have not been in contact with me since 2 months ago and i have sent about 5 emails to cover both brokers and insurance company requesting comms to resume. The only feedback I am getting is from my brokers and they have been very supportive, but with the last paragraph I have heard nothing. Please can i have some constructive comments about what my option are from this point on.
Edited by charlton2007 on Saturday 16th March 10:16
JMRS4 said:
Rabbo said:
Entirely irrelevant. Gap insurance only covers the difference between payout and amount owing in finance.
The insurers are obliged to out you in the position you were in prior to the accident, so should pay out on the basis of what it would cost you to buy an equivalent car, not necessarily the 'value' of that car. Stick to your guns OP and they'll eventually concede more (speaking from experience).
This is YOUR experience is it, well for your information, my wife wrote off her car and got almost new money in total for a 3 year old ford, so that puts your theory out of window .The insurers are obliged to out you in the position you were in prior to the accident, so should pay out on the basis of what it would cost you to buy an equivalent car, not necessarily the 'value' of that car. Stick to your guns OP and they'll eventually concede more (speaking from experience).
Sure your wife's payout worked well, but it is for newer cars only really.
In terms of the payout, if the insurer reckons (and proves) you can find a replacement for their offer then you'll struggle to do much better. Good luck!
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