M135i..... bof.
Discussion
So the wife's brand new M135i was delivered yesterday.
I had quietly been looking forward to this day ever since placing the order: the idea of a tremendous driving machine cloaked in nondescript 1-series garb had great appeal for me. One day in, and the conclusion is that it's *alright* as a car. Sure it is leagues better than a ghastly 1.5-litre Mercedes A-class, say, but compared to my 911 is feels very, veeeeeery pedestrian. I appreciate the Porsche is almost 3x the price. But I wonder if the entire hot-hatch segment isn't a bit of a marketing-man's dogs' breakfast: I reckon there are proper, tight racers like 911s, Lotuses, Caterhams, Ferraris, etc, and then there are cars essentially designed for the transport of goods and persons. The two serve very different purposes. And anything that tries to straddle both ends (from a Porsche Panamera, via an Audi RS3, to said BMW M135i), well, they're just... compromised. The M135i isn't a tight, satisfying racer like even a £20k Caterham is. It's a hatchback with a big engine stuck in. That makes it quick, but neither especially involving nor dramatic - nor worth the £10 grand price premium over a 120d.
My tuppence. I expect many of you will disagree
I had quietly been looking forward to this day ever since placing the order: the idea of a tremendous driving machine cloaked in nondescript 1-series garb had great appeal for me. One day in, and the conclusion is that it's *alright* as a car. Sure it is leagues better than a ghastly 1.5-litre Mercedes A-class, say, but compared to my 911 is feels very, veeeeeery pedestrian. I appreciate the Porsche is almost 3x the price. But I wonder if the entire hot-hatch segment isn't a bit of a marketing-man's dogs' breakfast: I reckon there are proper, tight racers like 911s, Lotuses, Caterhams, Ferraris, etc, and then there are cars essentially designed for the transport of goods and persons. The two serve very different purposes. And anything that tries to straddle both ends (from a Porsche Panamera, via an Audi RS3, to said BMW M135i), well, they're just... compromised. The M135i isn't a tight, satisfying racer like even a £20k Caterham is. It's a hatchback with a big engine stuck in. That makes it quick, but neither especially involving nor dramatic - nor worth the £10 grand price premium over a 120d.
My tuppence. I expect many of you will disagree
rtg0616 said:
To even mention a 135i and a Caterham in the same sentence and try to make a comparison, then you're clearly a bit of a muppet!!
Too many insults on PH, so easy to vent the real you to the world on a keyboard isn't it? He bought one drove it and posted his views what's wrong with that.
Wills2 said:
Too many insults on PH, so easy to vent the real you to the world on a keyboard isn't it?
He bought one drove it and posted his views what's wrong with that.
A scholar and a gentleman. Thank you Wills2. I was trying to start a discussion on whether "hot hatches" aren't really trying to be something that can't be done, and consequently offer an inherently compromised proposition. Still waiting for someone to respond to the challenge. He bought one drove it and posted his views what's wrong with that.
RankAmateur said:
A scholar and a gentleman. Thank you Wills2. I was trying to start a discussion on whether "hot hatches" aren't really trying to be something that can't be done, and consequently offer an inherently compromised proposition. Still waiting for someone to respond to the challenge.
To fair though you drive a 991, and having driven a 991 myself most cars will disappoint in comparison. You're right though hot hatches can't be as focused or as capable as a sports car, good bang for your buck though.
Cheers!
ha respond to what challenge? to put 10k in context , I struggled to comprehend how anyone would buy a 911 2s when the 997 gt3 cost only 10k more. compared to the Gt3 I found the2s to be very very uninvolving. its not like many people buy a 911 use the rear seats and the PASM makes the Gt3 vastly better when pushing it while being totally useable as a means of transport.
if your point is whats the point in hot hatches, because a caterham is more dynamic, then the muppet accusation is accurate. a 135i is far closer to a 911 than a 120d in performance and far closer to a 120d in price so its quite good value and far more versatile. if you seek involvement get a gt3 which tramples a standard 911, for little more compromise. you'll also get a better resale in a few years time
if your point is whats the point in hot hatches, because a caterham is more dynamic, then the muppet accusation is accurate. a 135i is far closer to a 911 than a 120d in performance and far closer to a 120d in price so its quite good value and far more versatile. if you seek involvement get a gt3 which tramples a standard 911, for little more compromise. you'll also get a better resale in a few years time
dvshannow said:
a 135i is far closer to a 911 than a 120d in performance and far closer to a 120d in price
Your argument is about relatives. Mine is about absolutes: sure a 135i is "far closer" to a 911 than a 120d. That is self-evidently the case. My argument however is that this relative proximity is of little substance - it's marketing men's vapour-ware. Or, to put it in purist's terms: even your GT3, mr dyshannow, is dynamically compromised next to a £20k Caterham. So let's not pretend that our wheels are what they really aren't. A hot hatch isn't a drivers' car, same as a Panamera isn't. Better buy a cheap 120d plus a £10k second-hand Caterham than pretend like a M135i is a tight racer.deeen said:
"a 135i is far closer to a 911 than a 120d in performance and far closer to a 120d in ..."
Pub bore figures, yawn. A true enthusiast would be more interested in the driving experience, and character of the cars. My £1000 Nissan was more fun than my £12000 BMW, for example.
And yet we live in a world ever more obsessed with these. Don't quote random used car prices, the new car price would be a better frame of referencePub bore figures, yawn. A true enthusiast would be more interested in the driving experience, and character of the cars. My £1000 Nissan was more fun than my £12000 BMW, for example.
deeen said:
"a 135i is far closer to a 911 than a 120d in performance and far closer to a 120d in ..."
Pub bore figures, yawn. A true enthusiast would be more interested in the driving experience, and character of the cars. My £1000 Nissan was more fun than my £12000 BMW, for example.
I owned a 911 C2S for 3 fantastic years (sold to pay for my wedding!) and it's fair to say that the 911 is simply in a different league to the m135i in terms of involvement and driving kicks. It's an astonishing machine, very little can get near it for the thrill of driving.Pub bore figures, yawn. A true enthusiast would be more interested in the driving experience, and character of the cars. My £1000 Nissan was more fun than my £12000 BMW, for example.
The 911 is a focused sports car. Much more focused than my previous m3's too...... both the M3 and m135i are compromised to a certain extent.
That said, life dictates that some of us have to make compromises (eg. I've got a Labrador that was cute sitting on the 911 passenger seat when he was a puppy but less so as he got full size!!) yet despite this we still want to enjoy our driving and cars - and this scenario the m3s and m135is are absolutely superb. They allow us to get pleasure out of every day driving and not just a few hours at the weekend......But let's not pretend they're competing with or will ever get near Caterhams!!!
The other thing I'd say is that the m135i will comfortably pull the trousers down of the e46 m3 in pretty much all circumstances. The engine is more flexible and responsive and the handling is superb making the car crazily accessible to drive extremely quickly. I'm not trying to prod M3 drivers (I love M3s with a passion and would have another in a heart beat) but that is the reality of the situation as I find it....
Vs the 997 C2S?? You'd have more fun in the 911 for sure but the m135i would be stuck to your bumper and you will not be able to shift it (for the avoidance of doubt, I'd rather be in the 911 still!!
Awesome machine but certainly a compromise. However if you're not feeling the 10k difference over a 120d then I think your need your head checked (I presume you we're just being provacative!!)
Cheers
RS
Well the BMW marketeers will be happy since all it seems they need to do is add the letter "M" to one of their bread van hatches and people are salivating and comparing it to a 911
So the latest brand new BMW hot hatch can keep up with a cooking 911 that was designed 10 years ago. So what? Your bread vans will disappear rapidly in the rear view mirror of any 991 on the road today.
No, I haven't driven one and I don't want to either. The latest 911 is a better sports car than the current F10 M5, so making comparisons between the (actually any) 911 and the "M" 135i is irrelevant in my opinion. I'm sure its good value at £35k or whatever it is but it's not pretty and you could get a better 911 for the same money these days anyway. Just IMHO.
So the latest brand new BMW hot hatch can keep up with a cooking 911 that was designed 10 years ago. So what? Your bread vans will disappear rapidly in the rear view mirror of any 991 on the road today.
No, I haven't driven one and I don't want to either. The latest 911 is a better sports car than the current F10 M5, so making comparisons between the (actually any) 911 and the "M" 135i is irrelevant in my opinion. I'm sure its good value at £35k or whatever it is but it's not pretty and you could get a better 911 for the same money these days anyway. Just IMHO.
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