E60 M5 onto an E9X M3?
Discussion
Has anyone on here gone from an E60 M5 onto an E9X M3 saloon? If so would like to hear your thoughts on it please. I've been out in a coupe before and wasn't impressed that much,the power delivery and the issues with getting into the back of the car etc,but I like the way the saloon looks and it's a thousand times more ideal for what I need from a car.
I believe I saw a thread on here which said real world MPG is around 21mpg, compared to the 13mpg I get in my M5 which is a massive increase IMO (the petrol station staff know me very well!).
I know there are a few less luxury items like lack of leather etc, and naturally it's a smaller car in general, but would it be a move that I may regret? I tend to change cars every 8 months or so.
I believe I saw a thread on here which said real world MPG is around 21mpg, compared to the 13mpg I get in my M5 which is a massive increase IMO (the petrol station staff know me very well!).
I know there are a few less luxury items like lack of leather etc, and naturally it's a smaller car in general, but would it be a move that I may regret? I tend to change cars every 8 months or so.
I went E39 M5 to E90 M3 DCT with a (non-owned) stint in an E60 M5 in the middle.
My overall conclusion is the M3 saloon with the DCT box is the best overall real world "solution" everything taken into account. Without the DCT it's very close run with the E39.
The E60 is a great car without any shadow of a doubt but I concluded it wasn't for me.
Your's is the second mention of "lack of leather" in the E90 today. The standard car has leather. Some have extended leather.
My car returns 17mpg in town, low 20's out of town and high 20's on a run. The only non service item it has required in 3.5 years is a windscreen washer motor.
Only death, insanity or financial melt-down will part me with my E90
My overall conclusion is the M3 saloon with the DCT box is the best overall real world "solution" everything taken into account. Without the DCT it's very close run with the E39.
The E60 is a great car without any shadow of a doubt but I concluded it wasn't for me.
Your's is the second mention of "lack of leather" in the E90 today. The standard car has leather. Some have extended leather.
My car returns 17mpg in town, low 20's out of town and high 20's on a run. The only non service item it has required in 3.5 years is a windscreen washer motor.
Only death, insanity or financial melt-down will part me with my E90
Edited by ndj on Wednesday 8th May 15:17
ndj said:
Your's is the second mention of "lack of leather" in the E90 today. The standard car has leather. Some have extended leather.
Only the uninitiated can compare the feeling of being surrounded by acres and acres of superb quality merino leather and the suede headliner to the stuff you get in the lesser model...Cheburator mk2 said:
ndj said:
Your's is the second mention of "lack of leather" in the E90 today. The standard car has leather. Some have extended leather.
Only the uninitiated can compare the feeling of being surrounded by acres and acres of superb quality merino leather and the suede headliner to the stuff you get in the lesser model...ndj said:
Like I said, I ran an E60 for a while. Fortunately I don't have a leather fetish.
But I bet the E60 did not have the full leather option... I am being objective here - I don't have a leather fetish, it just happens that the leather adds a nice touch and helps to differentiate the car from the cooking models.
Something for you to consider - I personally think that the dash material in the E39 is very nice, similar to the E46, in fact I have one of each - E39 540i and E46 M3, but there was no way I would buy E60/1 without the full leather option... The M3 is no different - feels cheap and cardboard-y without the leather...
I haven't owned a E60 m5 but the E9x m3 is good fun to throw around country lanes for a relatively heavy car & I would have thought it feels a little lighter on its feet than the m5, but I love the m5 loads for all the things mentioned above, the M3 after the M5 must feel like travelling in the cheap seats!!
Leins said:
While not meaning to offend anyone, are we really differentiating between //M-cars by standard of leather now? Or is this a wind-up?
Of course there is a tongue in cheek element to my post, but...If the two cars are similar money now, of course toys will play a part in the consideration - at the end of the day they are also similar in the sense they are both 4 door, family cars with some claim to sporting pedigree. They will drive fairly similarly to each other - they would both have ///M DNA - thus suddenly to me stuff like toys or booth space becomes very, very important...
Unless I have missed a point?
Personally I'd ditch all the leather for a pair of BMW Performance seats any day of the week. The quality and quantity of the leather didn't register at all in the buying decision of my E90 (or the M's that proceeded it).
The E90 IMHO feels lighter, more focused, crisper, and still sounds great. Performance figures speak for themselves. I get the feeling that for those whom "only a V10 will do" the S65 is considered a runt, but it's not. It's a hugely accomplished engine and at least half a generation more developed than the V10 that fathered it. It's also incredibly reliable and can be mated to the (incredibly reliable) DCT box which is (again IMHO) a quantum leap forward from SMG. What's not to like?
Hopefully this post will help the OP, and before I get flamed from the M5 boys I will admit to a secret desire for an E61 M5 that barring a lottery win will go unfulfilled as the E90 is a keeper.
This isn't an M5/M3 comparison but is a good view nonetheless. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4KVgEtXWkvY
The E90 IMHO feels lighter, more focused, crisper, and still sounds great. Performance figures speak for themselves. I get the feeling that for those whom "only a V10 will do" the S65 is considered a runt, but it's not. It's a hugely accomplished engine and at least half a generation more developed than the V10 that fathered it. It's also incredibly reliable and can be mated to the (incredibly reliable) DCT box which is (again IMHO) a quantum leap forward from SMG. What's not to like?
Hopefully this post will help the OP, and before I get flamed from the M5 boys I will admit to a secret desire for an E61 M5 that barring a lottery win will go unfulfilled as the E90 is a keeper.
This isn't an M5/M3 comparison but is a good view nonetheless. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4KVgEtXWkvY
Cheburator mk2 said:
ndj said:
Your's is the second mention of "lack of leather" in the E90 today. The standard car has leather. Some have extended leather.
Only the uninitiated can compare the feeling of being surrounded by acres and acres of superb quality merino leather and the suede headliner to the stuff you get in the lesser model...
Cheburator mk2 said:
Of course there is a tongue in cheek element to my post, but...
If the two cars are similar money now, of course toys will play a part in the consideration - at the end of the day they are also similar in the sense they are both 4 door, family cars with some claim to sporting pedigree. They will drive fairly similarly to each other - they would both have ///M DNA - thus suddenly to me stuff like toys or booth space becomes very, very important...
Unless I have missed a point?
The point is they're //M cars, it should be all about the engineering and driving IMO, not about the toysIf the two cars are similar money now, of course toys will play a part in the consideration - at the end of the day they are also similar in the sense they are both 4 door, family cars with some claim to sporting pedigree. They will drive fairly similarly to each other - they would both have ///M DNA - thus suddenly to me stuff like toys or booth space becomes very, very important...
Unless I have missed a point?
Yes, the fact that many of them can be used as daily transport for all the family is great, but it's which one(s) matches your driving expectations the best that matters. Of course an E90 M3 might be ruled out by some because it is too small (or big!), but to decide that a V10 M5 is better than a V8 M3 because of what luxury equipment they come with just seems a bit wrong to me
I'm interested to know, as perhaps it's me who doesn't actually understand the nature of //M-cars, but that's what floats my boat
cerb4.5lee said:
I haven't owned a E60 m5 but the E9x m3 is good fun to throw around country lanes for a relatively heavy car & I would have thought it feels a little lighter on its feet than the m5, but I love the m5 loads for all the things mentioned above, the M3 after the M5 must feel like travelling in the cheap seats!!
Cheap seats indeed but thats where the fun is! Def there is a difference in chuckailbility, but as the OP has owned an M5 should be best appreciated with a test drive
Having considered an E61 M5 at the beginning of the year along with an E90 M3, I found myself dismissing the M5 after a few hours of careful consideration, based on the following
Horrendous MPG and THAT gearbox, I've driven an E46 SMG and hated it around town, I may have been wrong to base my opinion of the E6x M5 SMG on experience of an older lesser car, however there can't be a huge difference between the two.
I chose an E90 DCT, and its fitted with extended leather, I've never been too bothered about swathes of leather inside my cars, and as leather dashboards and suede headliners were never an option on the M3 I wouldn't feel too shortchanged
Now onto my reason for posting, the M3 was very nearly stolen on Monday morning, I caught the offenders in the act, and on Monday I couldn't look at the car, it sickened me, I jumped into the OH's Audi TT-S and used it on Monday, however I needed to use the M3 on Tuesday, and decided that a short run across a back road was required.
That car has got under my skin, it really has, the DCT gearbox is a masterpiece, the engine is a work of art, its got enough leather to keep most happy but the drive just inspires confidence, and makes me happy. That sick feeling I had on Monday was quickly gone as I hit 8000rpm in second gear and carried on through 3rd, through some shallow S bends, and back down to second for a tight left hander into a tight right hander then 8000rpm again, this continued for an uninterrupted 7 miles, and I was grinning from ear to ear, the sick feeling had disappeared and Monday mornings exploits were forgotten about.
So before worrying about being shortchanged by having a lack of leather dash top, suede roof cloth etc, take a look at things from a different perspective, perhaps your short changing yourself by having the leather dash, suede roof, ruinous MPG, and that awful gearbox, try an E90 M3 and decide for yourself. I'm 99% confident it will deliver all of the thrills of your M5 in a more nimble package
Horrendous MPG and THAT gearbox, I've driven an E46 SMG and hated it around town, I may have been wrong to base my opinion of the E6x M5 SMG on experience of an older lesser car, however there can't be a huge difference between the two.
I chose an E90 DCT, and its fitted with extended leather, I've never been too bothered about swathes of leather inside my cars, and as leather dashboards and suede headliners were never an option on the M3 I wouldn't feel too shortchanged
Now onto my reason for posting, the M3 was very nearly stolen on Monday morning, I caught the offenders in the act, and on Monday I couldn't look at the car, it sickened me, I jumped into the OH's Audi TT-S and used it on Monday, however I needed to use the M3 on Tuesday, and decided that a short run across a back road was required.
That car has got under my skin, it really has, the DCT gearbox is a masterpiece, the engine is a work of art, its got enough leather to keep most happy but the drive just inspires confidence, and makes me happy. That sick feeling I had on Monday was quickly gone as I hit 8000rpm in second gear and carried on through 3rd, through some shallow S bends, and back down to second for a tight left hander into a tight right hander then 8000rpm again, this continued for an uninterrupted 7 miles, and I was grinning from ear to ear, the sick feeling had disappeared and Monday mornings exploits were forgotten about.
So before worrying about being shortchanged by having a lack of leather dash top, suede roof cloth etc, take a look at things from a different perspective, perhaps your short changing yourself by having the leather dash, suede roof, ruinous MPG, and that awful gearbox, try an E90 M3 and decide for yourself. I'm 99% confident it will deliver all of the thrills of your M5 in a more nimble package
I think everyone is missing a few points:
- the M3 is not quicker on any road. On track, yes, but seriously, if you are tracking an E9x M3 in its standard form, you need your head checked...
- the MPG - if you are buying a V8/V10 car and you are concerned about it, then you should be buying a 535/335d. The E46M3 is the only real world sensible MPG ///M car...
- the V8 - yes, it is great... But as one of my favourite literary characters said "More is never enough, and too much is just right." The V10 revs just as much, makes more power and sounds better. No M3 headbutts its limiter in the same way as the V10 just slams against it at 172mph...
- it is not just about the leather - it is about all the toys - HUD, active seats, much better sound deadening, much better materials, better stereo, much more usable space in the boot and in the passenger compartment...
- the SMG gearbox - yes, it is not as smooth as the DCT, but it works and it adds a bit of drama in S5/6, which is lacking with the dual clutch systems
- last, but not least - there is a thing called pecking order - I am yet to see a situation where it does not work - in the same way as a Cayman will never be better than a 911 or an M3 better than M5 or an X3 better than X5 etc...
- the M3 is not quicker on any road. On track, yes, but seriously, if you are tracking an E9x M3 in its standard form, you need your head checked...
- the MPG - if you are buying a V8/V10 car and you are concerned about it, then you should be buying a 535/335d. The E46M3 is the only real world sensible MPG ///M car...
- the V8 - yes, it is great... But as one of my favourite literary characters said "More is never enough, and too much is just right." The V10 revs just as much, makes more power and sounds better. No M3 headbutts its limiter in the same way as the V10 just slams against it at 172mph...
- it is not just about the leather - it is about all the toys - HUD, active seats, much better sound deadening, much better materials, better stereo, much more usable space in the boot and in the passenger compartment...
- the SMG gearbox - yes, it is not as smooth as the DCT, but it works and it adds a bit of drama in S5/6, which is lacking with the dual clutch systems
- last, but not least - there is a thing called pecking order - I am yet to see a situation where it does not work - in the same way as a Cayman will never be better than a 911 or an M3 better than M5 or an X3 better than X5 etc...
Edited by Cheburator mk2 on Thursday 9th May 10:57
I dont' think my previous car history helps as I'm use to fairly powerful cars (R34 GTR,996 911 Turbo being my last 2 cars) but I won't know anything about the car myself until I drive it.
This is the one that I'll be going to view, will be calling the dealer up in advance to make sure I can also go for a test drive in it.
http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2013...
The gearbox in the E60 M5 I've now gotten use to, the S85 engine is a master piece IMO and with my muffler delete sounds amazing, some interesting points made though so thanks.
This is the one that I'll be going to view, will be calling the dealer up in advance to make sure I can also go for a test drive in it.
http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2013...
The gearbox in the E60 M5 I've now gotten use to, the S85 engine is a master piece IMO and with my muffler delete sounds amazing, some interesting points made though so thanks.
Edited by JapFreak786 on Thursday 9th May 11:56
Cheburator mk2 said:
I think everyone is missing a few points:
- the M3 is not quicker on any road. On track, yes, but seriously, if you are tracking an E9x M3 in its standard form, you need your head checked...
- the MPG - if you are buying a V8/V10 car and you are concerned about it, then you should be buying a 535/335d. The E46M3 is the only real world sensible MPG ///M car...
- the V8 - yes, it is great... But as one of my favourite literary characters said "More is never enough, and too much is just right." The V10 revs just as much, makes more power and sounds better. No M3 headbutts its limiter in the same way as the V10 just slams against it at 172mph...
- it is not just about the leather - it is about all the toys - HUD, active seats, much better sound deadening, much better materials, better stereo, much more usable space in the boot and in the passenger compartment...
- the SMG gearbox - yes, it is not as smooth as the DCT, but it works and it adds a bit of drama in S5/6, which is lacking with the dual clutch systems
- last, but not least - there is a thing called pecking order - I am yet to see a situation where it does not work - in the same way as a Cayman will never be better than a 911 or an M3 better than M5 or an X3 better than X5 etc...
Still don't agree with you about toys, but so be it, and much of the rest of what you say makes sense- the M3 is not quicker on any road. On track, yes, but seriously, if you are tracking an E9x M3 in its standard form, you need your head checked...
- the MPG - if you are buying a V8/V10 car and you are concerned about it, then you should be buying a 535/335d. The E46M3 is the only real world sensible MPG ///M car...
- the V8 - yes, it is great... But as one of my favourite literary characters said "More is never enough, and too much is just right." The V10 revs just as much, makes more power and sounds better. No M3 headbutts its limiter in the same way as the V10 just slams against it at 172mph...
- it is not just about the leather - it is about all the toys - HUD, active seats, much better sound deadening, much better materials, better stereo, much more usable space in the boot and in the passenger compartment...
- the SMG gearbox - yes, it is not as smooth as the DCT, but it works and it adds a bit of drama in S5/6, which is lacking with the dual clutch systems
- last, but not least - there is a thing called pecking order - I am yet to see a situation where it does not work - in the same way as a Cayman will never be better than a 911 or an M3 better than M5 or an X3 better than X5 etc...
However, that last comment about "pecking order" is utter tosh IMO. An M5 has always been a different car to an M3, but one is not "better" than another. They are fit for slightly different purposes
In fact historically, if anything the original E28 M5 was the afterthought of the range, only coming into existence due to spare capacity on the procuction line and an inability of BMW //M to get the M88 to work successfully in an E30 M3
JapFreak - given your previous car history I think you're going to find the M3 a little lacking in grunt. I regularly drive both cars and both have their strengths - the key one for the M3 being that it's smaller and lighter, but I think the e60 wins out on pretty much every other count. The DCT is certainly much better for general driving and if the car is going to used mostly in town I think it's the better choice. However, having spent 18 months with the e60, i've grown to love the SMG, and as stated by others, the whack in the back changes really add to the drama, and when pressing on the top end of the v10 just takes it into a whole other realm of performance that the V8 just can't match. However, it should be noted that i'm lucky to live in the middle of nowhere with lots of quiet country roads, and you need some space to really get the best out of the M5. The interior and ride in the M5 do make the M3 feel a bit cheap, but I wouldn't say the M3 is bad.
As it happens I'm trying to convince the Mrs that she needs an M3 vert as her new car, as the current lease deals are hard to beat!
As it happens I'm trying to convince the Mrs that she needs an M3 vert as her new car, as the current lease deals are hard to beat!
Leins said:
In fact historically, if anything the original E28 M5 was the afterthought of the range, only coming into existence due to spare capacity on the procuction line and an inability of BMW //M to get the M88 to work successfully in an E30 M3
Totally agree about the afterthought, but I seem to remember that it was developed as the son of the E12 M535i... Also seem to remember that Paul Roche had one of the first cars... The M88 in the M3 does not work very well simply because it weighs a ton and is as long as the Qeen Mary 2...Edited by Cheburator mk2 on Thursday 9th May 12:10
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