Starting to look at E30 M3s, what do I need to know?
Discussion
A steady realisation that I've missed the boat on a 911rs (who wants to tack something worth that?!) means I've started looking at E30 M3s.
I've had a couple of ///M cars & love the marque & while they've jumped in the past 2 years they're not stupid money yet. So what do I need to know? Buying advice, tips, where to look for rust etc all will be a help
I'm a bit of an anorak beardy expert on air cooled 911s but E30s I haven't looked round since dad sold his 320i in around 1991!
I've had a couple of ///M cars & love the marque & while they've jumped in the past 2 years they're not stupid money yet. So what do I need to know? Buying advice, tips, where to look for rust etc all will be a help
I'm a bit of an anorak beardy expert on air cooled 911s but E30s I haven't looked round since dad sold his 320i in around 1991!
The scuttle, front and rear arches, battery trays, behind the front wheels, bulkheads, sills underneath the side skirts, bottom of front wings under the side skirts, sunroof and roof casssette, , if it's got pop out rear windows check for rust under these, front slam panel, rear panel around the number plate lights....... you getting the drift?
The newest E30 M3 is going to be ~22 years old expect to rectify some corrosion or buy a car that has had all the work done and pay the price. The only panel that you don't need to check for corrosion is the boot lid.
Have a look through this thread,
The newest E30 M3 is going to be ~22 years old expect to rectify some corrosion or buy a car that has had all the work done and pay the price. The only panel that you don't need to check for corrosion is the boot lid.
Have a look through this thread,
Edited by E30M3SE on Tuesday 25th June 20:35
Yep what E30M3SE said!
Unless it's been dry stored it's whole life or totally restored recently it will be rusty somewhere.
If you see a car you like, get it on a ramp and pull the bumpers and side skirts off then have a good poke around, they hide the rot really well, especially in the bulkhead, under the (hard wired) fuse box, front footwells and wheel arches. All of which is fairly serious money to put right if you are paying someone to do the work.
Evos, Cecottos and Ravaglias are the most sought after, but all drive similarly if not exactly the same. If you're buying for investment try and get an 'original' car ie. correct toolkit, torch, stereo, manuals, wallets etc. all this stuff is NLA and makes the car more collectible in some people's eyes....
Mechanically pretty strong but gearbox internal wear is pricey to fix and engine rebuilds can be into five figures. Be aware that any parts which are M3 specific can cost 10x the equivalent for 318 etc from BMW.
There's been loads of press on these cars in the last couple of years so asking prices have gone a bit silly, but it is a rare(ish) cool looking 80's throwback that still holds its own and won't get it's pants pulled down by a rep mobile
PM me if you want any more info.
Unless it's been dry stored it's whole life or totally restored recently it will be rusty somewhere.
If you see a car you like, get it on a ramp and pull the bumpers and side skirts off then have a good poke around, they hide the rot really well, especially in the bulkhead, under the (hard wired) fuse box, front footwells and wheel arches. All of which is fairly serious money to put right if you are paying someone to do the work.
Evos, Cecottos and Ravaglias are the most sought after, but all drive similarly if not exactly the same. If you're buying for investment try and get an 'original' car ie. correct toolkit, torch, stereo, manuals, wallets etc. all this stuff is NLA and makes the car more collectible in some people's eyes....
Mechanically pretty strong but gearbox internal wear is pricey to fix and engine rebuilds can be into five figures. Be aware that any parts which are M3 specific can cost 10x the equivalent for 318 etc from BMW.
There's been loads of press on these cars in the last couple of years so asking prices have gone a bit silly, but it is a rare(ish) cool looking 80's throwback that still holds its own and won't get it's pants pulled down by a rep mobile
PM me if you want any more info.
LaurasOtherHalf said:
A steady realisation that I've missed the boat on a 911rs (who wants to tack something worth that?!) means I've started looking at E30 M3s.
I've had a couple of ///M cars & love the marque & while they've jumped in the past 2 years they're not stupid money yet. So what do I need to know? Buying advice, tips, where to look for rust etc all will be a help
I'm a bit of an anorak beardy expert on air cooled 911s but E30s I haven't looked round since dad sold his 320i in around 1991!
Three letters C. I've had a couple of ///M cars & love the marque & while they've jumped in the past 2 years they're not stupid money yet. So what do I need to know? Buying advice, tips, where to look for rust etc all will be a help
I'm a bit of an anorak beardy expert on air cooled 911s but E30s I haven't looked round since dad sold his 320i in around 1991!
E46 CSL.
Will appreciate, won't rot (just watch out for the rear subframe mount cracking issue though) fast enough to hack it with the modern stuff, induction note to die for, more than the sum of its parts, really fun to drive. A surefire classic in the making.
Slippydiff said:
LaurasOtherHalf said:
A steady realisation that I've missed the boat on a 911rs (who wants to tack something worth that?!) means I've started looking at E30 M3s.
I've had a couple of ///M cars & love the marque & while they've jumped in the past 2 years they're not stupid money yet. So what do I need to know? Buying advice, tips, where to look for rust etc all will be a help
I'm a bit of an anorak beardy expert on air cooled 911s but E30s I haven't looked round since dad sold his 320i in around 1991!
Three letters C. I've had a couple of ///M cars & love the marque & while they've jumped in the past 2 years they're not stupid money yet. So what do I need to know? Buying advice, tips, where to look for rust etc all will be a help
I'm a bit of an anorak beardy expert on air cooled 911s but E30s I haven't looked round since dad sold his 320i in around 1991!
E46 CSL.
Will appreciate, won't rot (just watch out for the rear subframe mount cracking issue though) fast enough to hack it with the modern stuff, induction note to die for, more than the sum of its parts, really fun to drive. A surefire classic in the making.
didn't know you hung around these parts slippy?I've had an M3 CSL before pal & the whole gearbox thing just spoiled it for me, whole they might be flavour of the month now for some reason I think they'll have a serious dive in prices in the mid term. Well it's either that or I refuse to pay over £10k more for a similar spec car than what I got when I sold mine
E30M3SE, thanks for the link-I've studied that thread the most over the last few months!
LaurasOtherHalf said:
Slippydiff said:
LaurasOtherHalf said:
A steady realisation that I've missed the boat on a 911rs (who wants to tack something worth that?!) means I've started looking at E30 M3s.
I've had a couple of ///M cars & love the marque & while they've jumped in the past 2 years they're not stupid money yet. So what do I need to know? Buying advice, tips, where to look for rust etc all will be a help
I'm a bit of an anorak beardy expert on air cooled 911s but E30s I haven't looked round since dad sold his 320i in around 1991!
Three letters C. I've had a couple of ///M cars & love the marque & while they've jumped in the past 2 years they're not stupid money yet. So what do I need to know? Buying advice, tips, where to look for rust etc all will be a help
I'm a bit of an anorak beardy expert on air cooled 911s but E30s I haven't looked round since dad sold his 320i in around 1991!
E46 CSL.
Will appreciate, won't rot (just watch out for the rear subframe mount cracking issue though) fast enough to hack it with the modern stuff, induction note to die for, more than the sum of its parts, really fun to drive. A surefire classic in the making.
didn't know you hung around these parts slippy?I've had an M3 CSL before pal & the whole gearbox thing just spoiled it for me, whole they might be flavour of the month now for some reason I think they'll have a serious dive in prices in the mid term. Well it's either that or I refuse to pay over £10k more for a similar spec car than what I got when I sold mine
E30M3SE, thanks for the link-I've studied that thread the most over the last few months!
Not sure CSL prices are about to take a dive anytime soon, they're ten years old now, but more importantly, they're now appreciated for what they are.
I'd forgotten you'd owned one previously, you did explain to me before why you disliked the SMG 'box so much, care to refresh my memory ?
E30 M3 is a surefire classic, but finding a nice original one for what I term sensible money, and that doesn't need further expenditure, is getting harder year on year. And I guess that's why I see the M3 CSL as a a panacea, you get modern day, real world performance in a package that's proven resistant to corrosion and that in another ten years time will be just as collectable (if not moreso) as any of the sought after E30 M3 variants except the Sport Evo (I think)
As others have highlighted, corrosion is a major issue, likewise parts prices. Both the E30 M3's I owned needed gearbox builds as the syncros were toast between 1 & 2 and 2 & 3. The engines (albeit in my limited experience) rarely provide their full quota of Hp, this as years of being thrashed to the redline mercilessly to extract their performance takes its toll. As someone else pointed out, rebuilds (and the parts for them) don't come cheap.
Mermaid said:
Slippydiff said:
Three letters C.
E46 CSL.
964RS to the 996RS, although production numbers are almost the reverse.E46 CSL.
Just like to share my experience...
I bought a seemingly nice Sport Evo in 2004 which had been painted, but otherwise original. Found a bubble of rust on the scuttel which had been repaired previously, badly. Stripped the bulkhead, sills, wheelarch liners ect. I didn't find too much, but a full restoration was decided upon as I was only planning on doing it once.
During the restoration I replaced almost everything, so as far as parts prices go I know well enough to comment.
Good:
there isn't a lot that you can't get from the dealer, but some key parts are NLA, trim that is e30 generic mostly. Prices of non M3 specific parts are very reasonable and available within days.
Bad:
M3 specific parts can be expensive, particularly engine parts. Aside from front alu arms the suspension stuff is reasonable. Evo parts are shocking! How does £158 each for exhaust valves grab you?
Because there is a lot of owner expertise around, these cars are well supported, so there is a work around for some of the expensive parts. Forged pistons from JE/CP are cheaper than stock cast pistons from BMW for example. There are aftermarket options for valves. Some stuff i.e timing chain parts, you will just have to put the lube on and think of England.
Watch out for cars that have been chipped as they are usually over advanced and eat rod bearings.
Aftermarket exhausts give little extra on stock(ish) engines.
Silly lowered suspension screws the handling, likewise big wheels.
Brakes can be a little weak during spirited driving, but after market pads and hoses help.
Originality is probably key to value, but don't be put off if something has been changed, check if the original parts are still available if originality is important to you.
A stamped service book would be nice but a history of recent owners looking after it would count for more to me.
You can see my trials and tribulations here...
http://www.s14.net/forums/showthread.php?38762-Ste...
I bought a seemingly nice Sport Evo in 2004 which had been painted, but otherwise original. Found a bubble of rust on the scuttel which had been repaired previously, badly. Stripped the bulkhead, sills, wheelarch liners ect. I didn't find too much, but a full restoration was decided upon as I was only planning on doing it once.
During the restoration I replaced almost everything, so as far as parts prices go I know well enough to comment.
Good:
there isn't a lot that you can't get from the dealer, but some key parts are NLA, trim that is e30 generic mostly. Prices of non M3 specific parts are very reasonable and available within days.
Bad:
M3 specific parts can be expensive, particularly engine parts. Aside from front alu arms the suspension stuff is reasonable. Evo parts are shocking! How does £158 each for exhaust valves grab you?
Because there is a lot of owner expertise around, these cars are well supported, so there is a work around for some of the expensive parts. Forged pistons from JE/CP are cheaper than stock cast pistons from BMW for example. There are aftermarket options for valves. Some stuff i.e timing chain parts, you will just have to put the lube on and think of England.
Watch out for cars that have been chipped as they are usually over advanced and eat rod bearings.
Aftermarket exhausts give little extra on stock(ish) engines.
Silly lowered suspension screws the handling, likewise big wheels.
Brakes can be a little weak during spirited driving, but after market pads and hoses help.
Originality is probably key to value, but don't be put off if something has been changed, check if the original parts are still available if originality is important to you.
A stamped service book would be nice but a history of recent owners looking after it would count for more to me.
You can see my trials and tribulations here...
http://www.s14.net/forums/showthread.php?38762-Ste...
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