Z4M (C) & E46 M3 comparison
Discussion
I recently drove a Z4MC and thoroughly enjoyed it but after doing some research in the post-test-drive halcyon glow, it appears that finding a good one is rather difficult. That and the fact that it doesn't offer rear seats or 'much' storage is rather a concern. (I can convince myself either way though.)
My only experience of driving an E46 M3 was one with SMG and I didn't immediately enjoy it because of the gearbox but to be fair, I didn't have much time in it in the first place. So let's just imagine I haven't driven one.
Quick searches reveal that:
1. Z4M & MC appear to be a bit less progressive/harder to get along with on the limit
2. Z4M & MC are faster in the right hands around a track
3. E46 M3 is faster, on average, point-to-point because it inspires more confidence; see point 1.
4. E46 M3 is cheaper but subject to more problems e.g. rear subframe, springs snapping etc
Has anyone got any experience of owning/driving both?
My only experience of driving an E46 M3 was one with SMG and I didn't immediately enjoy it because of the gearbox but to be fair, I didn't have much time in it in the first place. So let's just imagine I haven't driven one.
Quick searches reveal that:
1. Z4M & MC appear to be a bit less progressive/harder to get along with on the limit
2. Z4M & MC are faster in the right hands around a track
3. E46 M3 is faster, on average, point-to-point because it inspires more confidence; see point 1.
4. E46 M3 is cheaper but subject to more problems e.g. rear subframe, springs snapping etc
Has anyone got any experience of owning/driving both?
The Stiglet said:
I recently drove a Z4MC and thoroughly enjoyed it but after doing some research in the post-test-drive halcyon glow, it appears that finding a good one is rather difficult. That and the fact that it doesn't offer rear seats or 'much' storage is rather a concern. (I can convince myself either way though.)
My only experience of driving an E46 M3 was one with SMG and I didn't immediately enjoy it because of the gearbox but to be fair, I didn't have much time in it in the first place. So let's just imagine I haven't driven one.
Quick searches reveal that:
1. Z4M & MC appear to be a bit less progressive/harder to get along with on the limit initially but are better once you have learnt how to drive the car
2. Z4M & MC are faster in the right hands around a track
3. E46 M3 is faster, on average, point-to-point because it inspires more confidence; see point 1. Again, only initially then the other way round.
4. E46 M3 is cheaper but subject to more problems e.g. rear subframe, springs snapping etc
Has anyone got any experience of owning/driving both?
I have made a couple of alterations to the above My only experience of driving an E46 M3 was one with SMG and I didn't immediately enjoy it because of the gearbox but to be fair, I didn't have much time in it in the first place. So let's just imagine I haven't driven one.
Quick searches reveal that:
1. Z4M & MC appear to be a bit less progressive/harder to get along with on the limit initially but are better once you have learnt how to drive the car
2. Z4M & MC are faster in the right hands around a track
3. E46 M3 is faster, on average, point-to-point because it inspires more confidence; see point 1. Again, only initially then the other way round.
4. E46 M3 is cheaper but subject to more problems e.g. rear subframe, springs snapping etc
Has anyone got any experience of owning/driving both?
Both are nice cars and have a lot in common but it is a misconception that the E46 is faster, it is the other way round. The Z4M has parts off of the CSL and is lighter. It is more difficult to drive initially but you need a lot of time behind the wheel to understand its traits and limits to really get the best out of it and ultimately drive it faster - it is similar to the 911 in that respect.
Anyone that thinks the E46 is faster hasn't spent much time behind the wheel of a Z4M.
Having said that, for road driving, the differences are small, not night & day by any stretch so you would be happy in either I imagine
Only owned a E46 M3 (and E36), but driven 5 or 6 Z4M roadsters and coupes over the years.
The M3 is much easier to drive quickly out of the box. In fact the suspension is almost spot on for fast road use, great dampening and not too much body roll. Same can't be said about the Z4M, the suspension doesn't inspire much confidence, it's very fidgety, tramlines and the rear spring rate is far too high. The coupe feels worse than the roadster due to the ridiculously high chassis rigidity, double the M3. The roadster is the same as the M3. Z4M is almost 100kg lighter than the M3.
That said, the Zed will always give a greater sense of occasion to look at and drive.
Both starting to look dated now.
Z4M on KW3 (street) coilovers is the best choice I'd imagine. Probably my next choice
The M3 is much easier to drive quickly out of the box. In fact the suspension is almost spot on for fast road use, great dampening and not too much body roll. Same can't be said about the Z4M, the suspension doesn't inspire much confidence, it's very fidgety, tramlines and the rear spring rate is far too high. The coupe feels worse than the roadster due to the ridiculously high chassis rigidity, double the M3. The roadster is the same as the M3. Z4M is almost 100kg lighter than the M3.
That said, the Zed will always give a greater sense of occasion to look at and drive.
Both starting to look dated now.
Z4M on KW3 (street) coilovers is the best choice I'd imagine. Probably my next choice
Owned both.
Currently in a seven thousand pound M3 E46, which seems a bit of a bargain tbh.
Had the Z4MC for 18 months and loved it.
There's quite a lot difference in the feel of both cars, the M3 feels less pointy, but more stable entering turns at speed and on exit. It generally feels heavier and more inert with less connection to the driver, but is easy to managed at speeds. The brakes wilt quicker in fast road use and certainly quicker on the track. The steering is slower with less feel but linear and accurate. In my opinion the M3 is perfectly useable everyday with a big boot and rear seats
The limits of grip initially do not feel that high on first acquaintance with Z4MC, but the more you drive, the more you realise it is. I took the car to the 'berg' and it was fast straight out the box. My co-pilot was white within the first third of the track. The steering is quicker and has more feel, the car reacting quicker to inputs and generally feeling more sporty. The brakes are from the CSL and didn't fade with road use or a few fast laps of a the berg. The connection to the car is greater and I could drive the car as fast as my previous Porsche Cayman S along twisting roads with a bit of practice(the Cayman is superb at making anyone a driving god). You have to work at driving the Z4MC fast, but the rewards are worth it. You basically get in it and banjo it like you've stolen the thing and its a engaging and fun
Downsides are the poor low speed ride, which is poor below 30 mph and the lack of rear seats impractical for many. Its a car for the open road and I had mine as a weekend toy rather than everyday transportation. Its one of the few cars I would buy again. If its your only form of transport I would imagine it would become wearing, although I did drive mine to work and enjoyed doing it.
I rate my car by the number of great drives I've had and I had loads in the Z4MC,
Currently in a seven thousand pound M3 E46, which seems a bit of a bargain tbh.
Had the Z4MC for 18 months and loved it.
There's quite a lot difference in the feel of both cars, the M3 feels less pointy, but more stable entering turns at speed and on exit. It generally feels heavier and more inert with less connection to the driver, but is easy to managed at speeds. The brakes wilt quicker in fast road use and certainly quicker on the track. The steering is slower with less feel but linear and accurate. In my opinion the M3 is perfectly useable everyday with a big boot and rear seats
The limits of grip initially do not feel that high on first acquaintance with Z4MC, but the more you drive, the more you realise it is. I took the car to the 'berg' and it was fast straight out the box. My co-pilot was white within the first third of the track. The steering is quicker and has more feel, the car reacting quicker to inputs and generally feeling more sporty. The brakes are from the CSL and didn't fade with road use or a few fast laps of a the berg. The connection to the car is greater and I could drive the car as fast as my previous Porsche Cayman S along twisting roads with a bit of practice(the Cayman is superb at making anyone a driving god). You have to work at driving the Z4MC fast, but the rewards are worth it. You basically get in it and banjo it like you've stolen the thing and its a engaging and fun
Downsides are the poor low speed ride, which is poor below 30 mph and the lack of rear seats impractical for many. Its a car for the open road and I had mine as a weekend toy rather than everyday transportation. Its one of the few cars I would buy again. If its your only form of transport I would imagine it would become wearing, although I did drive mine to work and enjoyed doing it.
I rate my car by the number of great drives I've had and I had loads in the Z4MC,
Always saw the M3 as a car I would own one day. Drove several and always quick and easy to drive quick. Then I took a Z4M out for a test drive. Very different character, and far more of a challenge to drive, for me. I bought the Z4M. Had it two and a half years now, 19000 miles of weekend toy fun and still learning to get the most out of it and it can still scare me, which I like.
I agree with pretty much everything that's already been said, except that...
Given the choice, I'd go for an e46 CS.
Having owned a CS for a year, a Z4MC for a year and an ordinary e46 M3 for a few months, the CS was my favourite. I'd have another in a flash. The other two were great cars, but I wouldn't rush to own again.
My criticisms of the Z are: seats are much less comfortable than the e46, there's an obvious practicality trade off with a two seater, and I don't think it sounded as good as the e46s. But it felt the most special. Every drive was an event.
Some of the shortcomings with the e46 already identified were dealt with in the CS - particularly brakes and steering rack. And the M-track mode thingy.
OP - try a CS!
Given the choice, I'd go for an e46 CS.
Having owned a CS for a year, a Z4MC for a year and an ordinary e46 M3 for a few months, the CS was my favourite. I'd have another in a flash. The other two were great cars, but I wouldn't rush to own again.
My criticisms of the Z are: seats are much less comfortable than the e46, there's an obvious practicality trade off with a two seater, and I don't think it sounded as good as the e46s. But it felt the most special. Every drive was an event.
Some of the shortcomings with the e46 already identified were dealt with in the CS - particularly brakes and steering rack. And the M-track mode thingy.
OP - try a CS!
Owned M3 CS and Z4M Coupe. I wanted to like the Z4M better, but actually preferred the CS. Both were manual, but CS had a much sweeter gear change. Not sure if this was due to CS being new and Z4M being used (albeit only 20k miles).
I still think the 2 seater looks better, but it's slightly more nervous feeling on the road, and not as easy or relaxing to push on in.
If you intend to keep for years the Z4M might be a wiser choice, but E46 takes some beating as a drivers car.....
I still think the 2 seater looks better, but it's slightly more nervous feeling on the road, and not as easy or relaxing to push on in.
If you intend to keep for years the Z4M might be a wiser choice, but E46 takes some beating as a drivers car.....
I've made an error, apologies. What I meant was I took a Z4M Roadster out not the Coupe. When I see Z4MC I always think convertible and not coupe. Woops.
Thanks for your feedback, all of which is very useful. To those suggesting the CS, that's the one I'd earmarked as the M3 to go for but there are some drawbacks, mainly the lack of controls on the steering wheel and no cruise control. Sadly, I use those facilities and I wouldn't want to be without them and don't fancy retro fitting an E46 M3 wheel. The various upgrades; quicker steering rack, CSL brakes, different springs and the CSL wheel reps, by all accounts, seem to make it a better package than the standard M3.
I think the Z4M design actually looks less dated than the E46 M3 and they do feel like a newer car, which I suppose they are even though they have the same old fashioned DVD SatNavs that my E39 has! I expected iDrive but I digress.
I've got lots of time so perhaps I need to go and see a variety of models.
Thanks for your feedback, all of which is very useful. To those suggesting the CS, that's the one I'd earmarked as the M3 to go for but there are some drawbacks, mainly the lack of controls on the steering wheel and no cruise control. Sadly, I use those facilities and I wouldn't want to be without them and don't fancy retro fitting an E46 M3 wheel. The various upgrades; quicker steering rack, CSL brakes, different springs and the CSL wheel reps, by all accounts, seem to make it a better package than the standard M3.
I think the Z4M design actually looks less dated than the E46 M3 and they do feel like a newer car, which I suppose they are even though they have the same old fashioned DVD SatNavs that my E39 has! I expected iDrive but I digress.
I've got lots of time so perhaps I need to go and see a variety of models.
I can also recommend the CS. Fantastic car and really does everything well. Makes u wonder why have an E92 M3 or how much better that can be ?
Z4M I have no experience but I am sure are all great fun. Try them all and several examples of each model CS, Z4MC, Z4MR, E46 M3 Coupe/Convertible.
Very straight forward to retrofit multifunction steering wheel to CS any competent garage or BMW Dealer can do this :-)
Z4M I have no experience but I am sure are all great fun. Try them all and several examples of each model CS, Z4MC, Z4MR, E46 M3 Coupe/Convertible.
Very straight forward to retrofit multifunction steering wheel to CS any competent garage or BMW Dealer can do this :-)
161BMW said:
The one car I wouldn't mind having a go in is the Z4MR I am assuming is aurally more pleasurably than the CS but I have no idea whether true or not ?
It sounded incredible especially with the roof down! Much louder than the E46 M3 I was in and not as tinny either IMO. Lots of rev matching on the downshifts and little pops & bangs made it very addictive. Herbs said:
Yes although that wasn't what I was getting at as with your budget you could aim for a 57 or 08 car.
The offer stands if you did want to see one without wasting an owner's time
I'm looking for the best cared for car, not necessarily the newest even though I'd like the former as well as the latter The offer stands if you did want to see one without wasting an owner's time
That's a very kind offer, thank you, but I would imagine your car will be selling rather soon at that price and I'm a bit busy this weekend.
The Stiglet said:
161BMW said:
The one car I wouldn't mind having a go in is the Z4MR I am assuming is aurally more pleasurably than the CS but I have no idea whether true or not ?
It sounded incredible especially with the roof down! Much louder than the E46 M3 I was in and not as tinny either IMO. Lots of rev matching on the downshifts and little pops & bangs made it very addictive. 
Every time I put mine in the garage I give it one last blip, before the roof goes up.The Stiglet said:
I'm looking for the best cared for car, not necessarily the newest even though I'd like the former as well as the latter
That's a very kind offer, thank you, but I would imagine your car will be selling rather soon at that price and I'm a bit busy this weekend.
Have you been looking and asking questions here. http://www.z4-forum.com/forum/search.php?search_id... Best Site I know for Z4 stuff. That's a very kind offer, thank you, but I would imagine your car will be selling rather soon at that price and I'm a bit busy this weekend.
Delighted to read it's the Roadster your interested in.
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