I didn't, but all of a sudden, I want an E39 M5/Monaro
Discussion
So throughout my driving career, I've always been more interested in the "pure" side of driving, I've always aspired to track day specials, stripped out cars, ones with rock hard suspension. But over the last few years, things have changed.
It started a few years ago, as a person under 30, I used the visas available to me to go live in Australia and Canada for a few years. Driving big, comfy, automatic cars, with lots of space, cup holders and so on. So i came home, bought a Lexus LS400 because I liked being comfortable and decided on a new career (truck driving, should be able to use it to emigrate to Canada - possibly NZ).
About 4 weeks ago I started truck driving, and now, when I get in my frankly massive Lexus LS400, I feel a little claustrophobic. So, the E46 M3/ Japanese car/ track special plan that I still had floating around in my brain has sort of disappeared, replaced by me wanting something big, comfy, but still fun to drive (ie, not an LS400).
So, E60 M5's are probably outside my budget, Amg merc estates with a gearbox worth having are well outside my budget, Monaros are an idea, but it'd have to be a vxr, and they're rare, and VXR8's are still outside my budget, and there just doesn't seem to be that many Manual ones about.
So, its between the E39 M5 and a Monaro. Both of which seem fairly depreciation proof (though a lot of E39's look to be reaching the end of their lives) I dare say the Monaro requires less specialist maintenance (that said, with 80bhp/litre, I think the E39 M5 probably isn't the most highly strung engine the world has ever seen).
So, have many people driven both? I imagine the M5 is the more exciting drive, and probably has the nicer interior (that said, i live in a Volvo, 5 days a week, so I'm not too concerned). Is the monaro really much cheaper to run? I guess a good M5 won't lose any value in the 2 or 3 years I plan on owning it.
Basically, i'd quite like your opinions.
Thankyouplease
It started a few years ago, as a person under 30, I used the visas available to me to go live in Australia and Canada for a few years. Driving big, comfy, automatic cars, with lots of space, cup holders and so on. So i came home, bought a Lexus LS400 because I liked being comfortable and decided on a new career (truck driving, should be able to use it to emigrate to Canada - possibly NZ).
About 4 weeks ago I started truck driving, and now, when I get in my frankly massive Lexus LS400, I feel a little claustrophobic. So, the E46 M3/ Japanese car/ track special plan that I still had floating around in my brain has sort of disappeared, replaced by me wanting something big, comfy, but still fun to drive (ie, not an LS400).
So, E60 M5's are probably outside my budget, Amg merc estates with a gearbox worth having are well outside my budget, Monaros are an idea, but it'd have to be a vxr, and they're rare, and VXR8's are still outside my budget, and there just doesn't seem to be that many Manual ones about.
So, its between the E39 M5 and a Monaro. Both of which seem fairly depreciation proof (though a lot of E39's look to be reaching the end of their lives) I dare say the Monaro requires less specialist maintenance (that said, with 80bhp/litre, I think the E39 M5 probably isn't the most highly strung engine the world has ever seen).
So, have many people driven both? I imagine the M5 is the more exciting drive, and probably has the nicer interior (that said, i live in a Volvo, 5 days a week, so I'm not too concerned). Is the monaro really much cheaper to run? I guess a good M5 won't lose any value in the 2 or 3 years I plan on owning it.
Basically, i'd quite like your opinions.
Thankyouplease
I've driven both many times inc many tweaked Monaro's
Stock the e39 wins every time its faster handles way better & is imho the best car Bmw have ever made (being in the trade means i've driven most of them at some point) this opinion is shared by many others i've spoken to as well.
Bad points are the stock front brakes are shocking & the clutch can't take to much abuse also if something major goes wrong it can be big money some have suffered failed big ends as well as other problems. They are getting on & rust can set in which can be very difficult & expensive to repair properly.
The Monaro is a totally different beast & a heart over head purchase they make a fantastic noise & are a real event to drive, when modded they can be an absolute weapon but are not as fast as you would expect due to long gearing & weight. You will be limited to where you get parts from (Monkfish are exceptional) they can also suffer rust so look for this especially on the double skinned crossmembers on the front of the floor plans. they can suffer spigot bearing failure which will knacker the gearbox if left but this is not as common as the net will lead you to believe. Monaro's have one of the best forums of any i have ever used.
Stock the e39 wins every time its faster handles way better & is imho the best car Bmw have ever made (being in the trade means i've driven most of them at some point) this opinion is shared by many others i've spoken to as well.
Bad points are the stock front brakes are shocking & the clutch can't take to much abuse also if something major goes wrong it can be big money some have suffered failed big ends as well as other problems. They are getting on & rust can set in which can be very difficult & expensive to repair properly.
The Monaro is a totally different beast & a heart over head purchase they make a fantastic noise & are a real event to drive, when modded they can be an absolute weapon but are not as fast as you would expect due to long gearing & weight. You will be limited to where you get parts from (Monkfish are exceptional) they can also suffer rust so look for this especially on the double skinned crossmembers on the front of the floor plans. they can suffer spigot bearing failure which will knacker the gearbox if left but this is not as common as the net will lead you to believe. Monaro's have one of the best forums of any i have ever used.
165,000 miles on mine now, over 100k of that under my control (some completely out of it!) and the love for my E39 is still very strong. Buy a good one, or buy a VERY cheap one and send it CpC for Phil fettling and enjoy a classic purposeful car. Nothing rattles, everything works as it should and its ready for another 100k without any major problems foreseen.
I drove 1290 miles non stop from my door to Monaco the weekend of the GP with several high end Gumball cars arriving at the same moment to our hotel, I was knackered, then a young lad stood in the street directly in front of me and took pictures "ooh cool an E39 M5!" He said, and made the universal give it a rev sign. Made my day!
You don't get that in a Vauxhall.
I drove 1290 miles non stop from my door to Monaco the weekend of the GP with several high end Gumball cars arriving at the same moment to our hotel, I was knackered, then a young lad stood in the street directly in front of me and took pictures "ooh cool an E39 M5!" He said, and made the universal give it a rev sign. Made my day!
You don't get that in a Vauxhall.
- disclaimer, Monaro not a Vauxhall, and kid does have to be a complete geek!
I've had both.
The E39 is the better car technically. It's more usable, more refined, outhandles and ticks more boxes than the monaro.
But - it's not as raw as the monaro. It's not as edgy. I don't get the same tingle when I turn the key in the m5 as I did in the monaro. I don't get out the m5 with the occasional feel of accomplishment that I've tamed the beast like I did in the monaro. As neiljohnson suggests heart over head it would be hard to pass up the monaro.
Regarding maintenance there is just flat out more to go wrong on the m5. It's mostly DIY'able and parts are easy and, sometimes, not too expensive. But it's a more complex beast in general than the Monaro. I wouldn't suggest either car is particularly unreliable or troublesome. Rust is the annoyance on both - particularly the m5. I very, very much doubt you'll find one without any. I have no concept of how much pain it is to sort - yet to tackle it on mine.
Interior wise the m5 is nice but for me it does feel a bit old - though I have the wood trim which I suspect really, really doesn't help. The monaros interior wasn't as high quality but the cabin felt more modern.
It really depends what you want out of the car.
I'd say if you're looking for a daily that can be both a wafty cruiser and a bit of a hooligan when pushed it would be the m5. If you're looking for something that bit special to get the juices flowing (hooligan mode all the time) then it would be the monaro.
I owned my monaro at 'the wrong time' for me. I do miss it.
p.s this presumes monaro vxr of some vintage. I don't know how stock cv8's will fare with the lower power and *slightly* different interior trims.
The E39 is the better car technically. It's more usable, more refined, outhandles and ticks more boxes than the monaro.
But - it's not as raw as the monaro. It's not as edgy. I don't get the same tingle when I turn the key in the m5 as I did in the monaro. I don't get out the m5 with the occasional feel of accomplishment that I've tamed the beast like I did in the monaro. As neiljohnson suggests heart over head it would be hard to pass up the monaro.
Regarding maintenance there is just flat out more to go wrong on the m5. It's mostly DIY'able and parts are easy and, sometimes, not too expensive. But it's a more complex beast in general than the Monaro. I wouldn't suggest either car is particularly unreliable or troublesome. Rust is the annoyance on both - particularly the m5. I very, very much doubt you'll find one without any. I have no concept of how much pain it is to sort - yet to tackle it on mine.
Interior wise the m5 is nice but for me it does feel a bit old - though I have the wood trim which I suspect really, really doesn't help. The monaros interior wasn't as high quality but the cabin felt more modern.
It really depends what you want out of the car.
I'd say if you're looking for a daily that can be both a wafty cruiser and a bit of a hooligan when pushed it would be the m5. If you're looking for something that bit special to get the juices flowing (hooligan mode all the time) then it would be the monaro.
I owned my monaro at 'the wrong time' for me. I do miss it.
p.s this presumes monaro vxr of some vintage. I don't know how stock cv8's will fare with the lower power and *slightly* different interior trims.
Edited by eztiger on Friday 29th November 15:16
I had the same dilema a few years back. I had been after an M5 for years after being a passenger in one, but things kept getting in the way. Eventually I looked at a few M5's and nearly bought one, but it had sold by the time i had got to the dealers. But I was always concerned about potential bills.
In the end i bought a Monaro VXR.
The Monaro was alot newer, well it's date of first registration was, and i also got a years network Q warranty, to give me peace of mind.
Whilst the Monaro is mechanically a simpler car to work on, the part prices can be dear. I was glad i had the warranty.
I had the Clutch Slave cylinder, Clutch and drop links all replaced under warranty, saving me a good bit of cash. And Vauxhall dealers haven't a clue what to do with them. Specialists, such as Monkfish would be my preferred option for looking after one.
I don't regret the decision to get the Monaro, but the M5 is an itch that i will hopefully scratch sooner rather than later.
In the end i bought a Monaro VXR.
The Monaro was alot newer, well it's date of first registration was, and i also got a years network Q warranty, to give me peace of mind.
Whilst the Monaro is mechanically a simpler car to work on, the part prices can be dear. I was glad i had the warranty.
I had the Clutch Slave cylinder, Clutch and drop links all replaced under warranty, saving me a good bit of cash. And Vauxhall dealers haven't a clue what to do with them. Specialists, such as Monkfish would be my preferred option for looking after one.
I don't regret the decision to get the Monaro, but the M5 is an itch that i will hopefully scratch sooner rather than later.
I changed from a Monaro VXR to a BMW M6 (E63) about a year ago.
The Monaro was fairly reliable, started first time every time and didn't let me down once. My (unplanned) costs in a year of driving were for a new clutch due to spigot bearing death (roughly £1200 from memory), a new wheel bearing (£300 ish from memory). Other than that just routine maintenance and tyres.
Mileage is decent enough due to the long gearing, although as others have said the car can feel slower than it is as a result.
I would say in standard form a Monaro will feel dated even compared to an E39 M5. My Monaro had a few upgrades, including AP Brakes (amazing stopping power), Wortec exhaust and headers (amazing noise though on the very loud side). The standard handling is pretty crap though. If I was buying one again, I would look for one with suspension / bush upgrades and also a faster steering rack. Also if you can get one with a supercharger it certainly won't feel slow!
The Monaro was fairly reliable, started first time every time and didn't let me down once. My (unplanned) costs in a year of driving were for a new clutch due to spigot bearing death (roughly £1200 from memory), a new wheel bearing (£300 ish from memory). Other than that just routine maintenance and tyres.
Mileage is decent enough due to the long gearing, although as others have said the car can feel slower than it is as a result.
I would say in standard form a Monaro will feel dated even compared to an E39 M5. My Monaro had a few upgrades, including AP Brakes (amazing stopping power), Wortec exhaust and headers (amazing noise though on the very loud side). The standard handling is pretty crap though. If I was buying one again, I would look for one with suspension / bush upgrades and also a faster steering rack. Also if you can get one with a supercharger it certainly won't feel slow!
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