E36 M3 - few questions for possible new buyer
Discussion
Morning all,
Am thinking quite seriously about investing some of my hard earned scratch into an E36 M3. I’m not too fussed whether it’s a the 3ltr or Evo 3.2 (although open to arguments for and against). It will however be something with 100k or more on the clock (due to budget) and preferably not wallyed up.
Am looking for a few pointers of things to look out for besides the Vanos (however what are the signs of this going and how much to replace?), rust (assuming the arches are place to look) and polybushes?
From what I can tell, the engines on these are fairly bomb proof.
What is the suspension like on these in terms of lifespan? What are the costs of brakes etc?
Any help would be good.
Thanks
Chris
Am thinking quite seriously about investing some of my hard earned scratch into an E36 M3. I’m not too fussed whether it’s a the 3ltr or Evo 3.2 (although open to arguments for and against). It will however be something with 100k or more on the clock (due to budget) and preferably not wallyed up.
Am looking for a few pointers of things to look out for besides the Vanos (however what are the signs of this going and how much to replace?), rust (assuming the arches are place to look) and polybushes?
From what I can tell, the engines on these are fairly bomb proof.
What is the suspension like on these in terms of lifespan? What are the costs of brakes etc?
Any help would be good.
Thanks
Chris
My original front brakes lasted 96k...but that's unusual: replacements for normal road use I'd stick to the OEM set up, it's more than good enough for road use. Suspension, not dramatically more than a standard 3 series of the era, these days, there are plenty of online discount options. If you want to up spec, your wallets the defining point, really.
crispyshark said:
Morning all,
Am thinking quite seriously about investing some of my hard earned scratch into an E36 M3. I’m not too fussed whether it’s a the 3ltr or Evo 3.2 (although open to arguments for and against). It will however be something with 100k or more on the clock (due to budget) and preferably not wallyed up.
Am looking for a few pointers of things to look out for besides the Vanos (however what are the signs of this going and how much to replace?), rust (assuming the arches are place to look) and polybushes?
From what I can tell, the engines on these are fairly bomb proof.
What is the suspension like on these in terms of lifespan? What are the costs of brakes etc?
Any help would be good.
Thanks
Chris
3.2 is a better car but at your presumed budget I wouldn't worry about which model. Am thinking quite seriously about investing some of my hard earned scratch into an E36 M3. I’m not too fussed whether it’s a the 3ltr or Evo 3.2 (although open to arguments for and against). It will however be something with 100k or more on the clock (due to budget) and preferably not wallyed up.
Am looking for a few pointers of things to look out for besides the Vanos (however what are the signs of this going and how much to replace?), rust (assuming the arches are place to look) and polybushes?
From what I can tell, the engines on these are fairly bomb proof.
What is the suspension like on these in terms of lifespan? What are the costs of brakes etc?
Any help would be good.
Thanks
Chris
Engines are by no means bullet-proof. They can let go spectacularly just like any other high-revving, high-performance engine. The car really is all about the engine. It will never be economical to fix/replace if it lets go - unless you have superb, low condition example. Lots of people will now tell you that they've covered 200k faultless miles which may well be true.
However, it's worth going in with your eyes open - engines can and do fail and at this age, with cars being 15years old now, several owners, un-known maintenance, quality of parts used, yadda yadda yadda.....
Rear arches rust - most would have seen paint by now. Battery trays also. Suspension needs to be fresh and properly set up to be able to enjoy the car.
OEM front discs are about £200 a side IIRC
How much are you planning to spend on the car?
Just a gamble and that price-point, given the age and mileage of the cars. You could get lucky and not need to spend anything other than servicing and consumables.
However, consider that to buy the car new, in today's money, you'd be looking at £60k - the car still has £60k running costs, hence the depreciation and secondhand price.
Lets suppose at £4-5k, the car is going to need some work to bring it up to scratch. Suspension refresh, brakes, tyres, full service including all fluids, alignment check etc....that's an easy £2k straight away. Then other things such as rust, paint, window seals, wheel refurb etc. That's assuming that there is nothing mechanically amiss such as vanos, clutch, gearbox....
A refreshed and well set-up M3 is a wonderful thing but they need everything in tip-top condition - regular maintenance with the occasional big bill. If I had £10k, I'd spend £5k on a car and the other £5k sorting everything and I'd still feel like I'd got a bargain at the end of it.
As I say, you may get lucky but I'd certainly have a few K contingency fund set aside for when you first purchase it. Or you could just put up with all the faults, run it for a year without spending a penny and then sell it. Although you may as well buy a 328i for half the price - poorly M3 doesn't warrant the purchase price IMHO.
As you have no doubt seen in the classifieds, the really good ones (supposedly) are going up in value, to a point where they are competing with E46s. The cheaper cars are fast disappearing as they being used for track-work or people are finding it more economical to break that to fix.
However, consider that to buy the car new, in today's money, you'd be looking at £60k - the car still has £60k running costs, hence the depreciation and secondhand price.
Lets suppose at £4-5k, the car is going to need some work to bring it up to scratch. Suspension refresh, brakes, tyres, full service including all fluids, alignment check etc....that's an easy £2k straight away. Then other things such as rust, paint, window seals, wheel refurb etc. That's assuming that there is nothing mechanically amiss such as vanos, clutch, gearbox....
A refreshed and well set-up M3 is a wonderful thing but they need everything in tip-top condition - regular maintenance with the occasional big bill. If I had £10k, I'd spend £5k on a car and the other £5k sorting everything and I'd still feel like I'd got a bargain at the end of it.
As I say, you may get lucky but I'd certainly have a few K contingency fund set aside for when you first purchase it. Or you could just put up with all the faults, run it for a year without spending a penny and then sell it. Although you may as well buy a 328i for half the price - poorly M3 doesn't warrant the purchase price IMHO.
As you have no doubt seen in the classifieds, the really good ones (supposedly) are going up in value, to a point where they are competing with E46s. The cheaper cars are fast disappearing as they being used for track-work or people are finding it more economical to break that to fix.
As said about the engine go in with your eyes open, get someone along who knows that engine to help you. I recently bought an E46 330ci Msport and I love it, but it is on 119k. One thing I will tell you, is that is feels twice as good as some 70k examples I tried. So history and maintenance is very important.
Something I have seen on the internet is the gearbox in the 3.2 is not as strong as the gearbox in the 3.0, so again have someone there who knows what to test before you hand over your money.
Once you have the perfect one post some pictures of the car to show it off
Something I have seen on the internet is the gearbox in the 3.2 is not as strong as the gearbox in the 3.0, so again have someone there who knows what to test before you hand over your money.
Once you have the perfect one post some pictures of the car to show it off
crispyshark said:
Morning all,
Am thinking quite seriously about investing some of my hard earned scratch into an E36 M3. I’m not too fussed whether it’s a the 3ltr or Evo 3.2 (although open to arguments for and against). It will however be something with 100k or more on the clock (due to budget) and preferably not wallyed up.
Am looking for a few pointers of things to look out for besides the Vanos (however what are the signs of this going and how much to replace?), rust (assuming the arches are place to look) and polybushes?
From what I can tell, the engines on these are fairly bomb proof.
What is the suspension like on these in terms of lifespan? What are the costs of brakes etc?
Any help would be good.
Thanks
Chris
Rear arches are a good indication as to the condition of the rest of the body but don't just see shiny arches and leave it at that. They are easily fixed compared to some of the other problem areas which include:Am thinking quite seriously about investing some of my hard earned scratch into an E36 M3. I’m not too fussed whether it’s a the 3ltr or Evo 3.2 (although open to arguments for and against). It will however be something with 100k or more on the clock (due to budget) and preferably not wallyed up.
Am looking for a few pointers of things to look out for besides the Vanos (however what are the signs of this going and how much to replace?), rust (assuming the arches are place to look) and polybushes?
From what I can tell, the engines on these are fairly bomb proof.
What is the suspension like on these in terms of lifespan? What are the costs of brakes etc?
Any help would be good.
Thanks
Chris
-Jacking points... the underseal can separate where the plastic jack pads have cut into it and this holds water against the metal rusting it out. If the jack pads are missing this also ins't great as it means moisture will have found its way inside the box sections.
-Gap between the back bumper and the rear quarter panels. It's sometimes there but hasn't crept round enough to be noticeable at a cursory glance.
-Battery tray, acid damage or though water ingress.
-Bootlid - Where the number plate lights are.
-Front chassis legs where the layers of metal come together. Hard to spot but it's usually hidden behind the a/c pipes.
-Front antiroll bar mountings. Easy to spot.
-Rear trailing edge of the floor pan / rear footwells.
-Front corners of the bonnet.
I think mechanically vanos isn't a huge issue and can be fixed, there are plenty of people offering economical vanos rebuilds such as Mr Vanos.
Brakes wise, your biggest potential issue is going to be rusty brake pipes especially the rears. Replacing these means removing the fuel tank which is a pretty big job. ABS sensors can be a pig to replace as they can rust into the hub so if you have the ABS light on be careful. Also be aware the cluster uses normal bulbs so removing the ABS bulb will sort an issue like this. If the light doesn't illuminate then chances are that's what's been done.
Suspension is pretty good but like anything does wear with miles and age, that would be the least of my worries to be honest as it's fairly easy / cheap to sort.
The EVO 6 speed box can be problematic (once warm it should be crunch free) The 5 speed in the 3.0 car is nicer to use and more durable generally. The 5 speed box can suffer from sticking detents but this tends to be when the box is cold and is a fairly easy fix although does require the box out to be done. If you're looking at a 3.0 car put the box into 5th with it cold (car not running) and see if it springs back to the middle when put back into neutral. If it stays to the right then the problem is there. The problem usually goes away once warmed up but can be a PITA to drive around while it's cold.
HTH!
I was seriously considering one of these as my next car but my budget stretched a bit more for a 350z, but not so much as to an E46 M3.
My advice would be to get a 3.0 5spd coupe. You'll find evos dirt cheap but their history and condition may be shady at your budget.
Speed wise theres hardly anything in it apparently 290 vs 320 bhp I think?
My advice would be to get a 3.0 5spd coupe. You'll find evos dirt cheap but their history and condition may be shady at your budget.
Speed wise theres hardly anything in it apparently 290 vs 320 bhp I think?
Brakes can be peanuts, from £40 discs at gsf, no need for the silly £ evo floaters. Are a few M specific bits that can be pricey, wishbones for example vs lesser 3 series stuff, engines can go on for ever if well looked after, they do go bang tho, I've had both & personally I prefer 3.0s for many reasons, a tougher lump, revvier at top end vs evo & its midrange, the 5 speed is a tough gearbox & peanuts if you need another one on the used market.
I purchased a techno violet 3.0 about 3 months ago and can't fault it.
Does 28mpg on my bracknell to Heathrow motorway commute. Fast enough for me for a road car and still practical.
Mine had the previous owner for 16years and they had never had a big bill with it......so Im hoping i won't!
But I personally think preventative maintenance is key, as said above if the engine goes bang spectacularly, it's just a sell for parts car unfortunately.
Does 28mpg on my bracknell to Heathrow motorway commute. Fast enough for me for a road car and still practical.
Mine had the previous owner for 16years and they had never had a big bill with it......so Im hoping i won't!
But I personally think preventative maintenance is key, as said above if the engine goes bang spectacularly, it's just a sell for parts car unfortunately.
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