Why the love for the S54?
Discussion
Simple question, as per the topic really. I feel like I must be missing something, as people go on about the S54 like it's the best engine ever made, but mine fails to excite me.
I much prefer the S65, much more character, sounds nicer, more drivable, revs higher etc.
Disclaimer, I own an S54 powered M3.
S65:
- Lower weight, the S65 is 33 pounds lighter than the S54
- Higer rev limit due to shorter stroke and oversquare design
- Larger displacement and more room to increase displacement
- Less stress on the crank, block, and rods
- Shorter block
- Better engine bay placement
- Aluminum dissipates heat better than iron
I much prefer the S65, much more character, sounds nicer, more drivable, revs higher etc.
Disclaimer, I own an S54 powered M3.
S65:
- Lower weight, the S65 is 33 pounds lighter than the S54
- Higer rev limit due to shorter stroke and oversquare design
- Larger displacement and more room to increase displacement
- Less stress on the crank, block, and rods
- Shorter block
- Better engine bay placement
- Aluminum dissipates heat better than iron
Edited by jon- on Wednesday 19th February 16:08
Newer engine is better than older engine. No great shock there?
The S54 is brilliant. Over 100bhp / litre is still remarkable for a NA engine and the way the old I6 screams to the redline never gets boring. It continued the lineage (and was the final incarnation) of a long line of great M-power straight sixes. And it had the benefit of being able to achieve an easy 30+mpg on a cruise down to the Dordogne.
The V8 suited the e92 much better than the straight six would have done, and I'm a huge fan of the e92 M3. But in the e46 and the Z4M the S54 was just the job.
The S54 is brilliant. Over 100bhp / litre is still remarkable for a NA engine and the way the old I6 screams to the redline never gets boring. It continued the lineage (and was the final incarnation) of a long line of great M-power straight sixes. And it had the benefit of being able to achieve an easy 30+mpg on a cruise down to the Dordogne.
The V8 suited the e92 much better than the straight six would have done, and I'm a huge fan of the e92 M3. But in the e46 and the Z4M the S54 was just the job.
I have owned both engines the S54 in a Z4M & the E92 M3 & I am opposite I prefer the S54 as neither engine gives much low to mid range performance as its all about the top end but I just thought the S54 felt a little more lively than the S65.
Neither engine would get my vote though as I still preferred the AJP V8 in my TVR the V8 in my x5 4.8is & the N52 in my current 330i, I just don't like the M engines characteristics as hardly anything happens below 5k to 6k revs they just don't float my boat.
I do understand why the S54/S65 have won so many awards though as they are both masterpieces but they didn't excite me like I thought they would.
Neither engine would get my vote though as I still preferred the AJP V8 in my TVR the V8 in my x5 4.8is & the N52 in my current 330i, I just don't like the M engines characteristics as hardly anything happens below 5k to 6k revs they just don't float my boat.
I do understand why the S54/S65 have won so many awards though as they are both masterpieces but they didn't excite me like I thought they would.
I agree Jon, had both long term, I was a big fan of the s54 both have similar characteristics but imho the V8 is better in almost every way. It just needs the upgraded exhaust to get the benefit of the sound. Top end of the s65 is just another level, real shame it didn't also get a gig in another model, I found the s54 could be a bit rough up high in comparison.
daz05 said:
Top end of the s65 is just another level, real shame it didn't also get a gig in another model
I agree with this & I feel its a shame that the S65 wasn't used in another model, I often think how great it would be if you could have an engine that's epic on the top end like the S65 but great at the bottom end too that would really be the best of both worlds. joema said:
Guess it depends whether you like using all the revs. 4500k plus. Awesome
The V8 doesn't get going until 6K revs though & by then everything else has left you for dead but maybe if it didn't have to drag 1600kg around with it though that might have made it feel a little more lively low down. 0836whimper said:
It was engine of the year umpteen times, an evolution over time, incarnations appeared in multiple M cars, gets the balance of power and thirst about right and is historically notable.
As opposed to the S65 that was none of those things and got swiftly replaced by turbos.
ha think you forget that the S64 was swiftly replaced by the S65 - because the S65 was more awesome! and the S65 is replaced by turbos because emissions now are more important As opposed to the S65 that was none of those things and got swiftly replaced by turbos.
cerb4.5lee said:
joema said:
Guess it depends whether you like using all the revs. 4500k plus. Awesome
The V8 doesn't get going until 6K revs though & by then everything else has left you for dead but maybe if it didn't have to drag 1600kg around with it though that might have made it feel a little more lively low down. Don't get me wrong, the S54 is a great engine for its time, but the best engine BMW ever made? Give me the V10 any day.
As for it being the best 6 cylinder engine... maybe. Great, it's naturally well balanced, but not great to package.
Can't argue with the fuel efficiency though, it nailed that in a way the S65 can't get close to.
Because the S54 is the best engine ever made
Winner of International Engine of The Year in 2001, 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005, 2006 in the 3-4 litre category even beating Porsche 996 Carrera/Turbo engines and the Ferrari 360 Modena engines
105bhp per litre
8000rpm
All in a BMW in 2001 was absolutely incredible back then.
Winner of International Engine of The Year in 2001, 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005, 2006 in the 3-4 litre category even beating Porsche 996 Carrera/Turbo engines and the Ferrari 360 Modena engines
105bhp per litre
8000rpm
All in a BMW in 2001 was absolutely incredible back then.
161BMW said:
Because the S54 is the best engine ever made
Winner of International Engine of The Year in 2001, 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005, 2006 in the 3-4 litre category even beating Porsche 996 Carrera/Turbo engines and the Ferrari 360 Modena engines
105bhp per litre
8000rpm
All in a BMW in 2001 was absolutely incredible back then.
Your current and fantasy fleet do not surprise me Winner of International Engine of The Year in 2001, 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005, 2006 in the 3-4 litre category even beating Porsche 996 Carrera/Turbo engines and the Ferrari 360 Modena engines
105bhp per litre
8000rpm
All in a BMW in 2001 was absolutely incredible back then.
Having had a few ///M Engines in my garage over the years and driven most others, the S54 is easily the best overall... The V8 may have better top end, but it is not economical, the V10 has even better top end, but it is vastly more complicated and even thirstier, the 4-cylinder is a true race engine for the road, but nothing happens below 5k rpm, the S38 is an absolute stonker of an engine, but is super fragile and demanding on maintainance...
The S54 somehow combines excellent performance, economy, sound and character. A bit like Bayern Munchen - does not have the Messis - V10 or Ronaldos - V8 of this world, but guess who will win the CL in sufficient style again...
The S54 somehow combines excellent performance, economy, sound and character. A bit like Bayern Munchen - does not have the Messis - V10 or Ronaldos - V8 of this world, but guess who will win the CL in sufficient style again...
No one has mentioned the fact that 79 M Roadsters (RHD) were built with the S54 engine in them. 6 were prototypes so 73 actual cars. Plus some were also put in the 'breadvan'.
Now you have the S54 in a fairly light weight car.
Great machines IMHO - I know, I have one of the Roadsters.
Not sure about the fuel consumption though.
Now you have the S54 in a fairly light weight car.
Great machines IMHO - I know, I have one of the Roadsters.
Not sure about the fuel consumption though.
jon- said:
cerb4.5lee said:
joema said:
Guess it depends whether you like using all the revs. 4500k plus. Awesome
The V8 doesn't get going until 6K revs though & by then everything else has left you for dead but maybe if it didn't have to drag 1600kg around with it though that might have made it feel a little more lively low down. Don't get me wrong, the S54 is a great engine for its time, but the best engine BMW ever made? Give me the V10 any day.
As for it being the best 6 cylinder engine... maybe. Great, it's naturally well balanced, but not great to package.
Can't argue with the fuel efficiency though, it nailed that in a way the S65 can't get close to.
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