E46 M3 Full on track car, is it worth it?
Discussion
I suppose this is more for people who are into track days, I was at my first full track day at the weekend. I absolutely loved it. My friend has a quick stripped out car turbo charged car being in that is just something else. The smell of petrol the noise etc. I really want that myself and I love my car but cant help doubt the idea of going all the way with converting my car. I think; Its a really nice road car do I really want to spoil it? Would I be spoiling it? Would I be better getting something else? Is a fully stripped e46 m3 a day / night difference over a one like mine with interior AP's / Coilovers / Carbon Airbox? As much as I want it I don't want to fall into a pit of stripping the car spending loads of money and be for ever chasing something its never going to be?
Really depends on what you are after, & yes you can go the whole hog with a 46 & would certainly notice the difference over a tweeked road car, it can be 300kg lighter for a start as well as far more focused & when you roll a road car on track, you'd wish you had the proper cage of the track car.
That said a tweeked 46 road car can be a really rapid track car, if a tad heavy & numb, I have a decent 36 tracker & had a great play with a v decent spec 46 at 'ring track day last yr, similar driver abilities & the 46 was a really good spec chassis wise APs with rs29, pss10 clubsports, on 888s it was a fun battle, his is full fat road spec & was a lot heavier & lost out in some areas, but the more advanced chassis & wider footprint plus extra power at the bigger speeds, meant it wasn't far off the pace of my e36 overall.
It was a proper spec car tho, the suspension & brakes cost more than my whole car.
Also had Shim of this parish murder me in a mildly modded CSL road car- brakes & suspension & geo at Spa, the extra grip & power really come into play at Spa, you can replicate that car on a regular e46 easily enough & it would be a v decent weapon.
Alternatively buy a separate full on track car, would cost less than mods to a 46 & you have something fully focused & than you can drive your road car to work on Monday if you've had an issue on track at WK end. If you want bimmer- lots of 36s around to a decent spec, or go lightweights caterham etc, whatever floats your boat.
That said a tweeked 46 road car can be a really rapid track car, if a tad heavy & numb, I have a decent 36 tracker & had a great play with a v decent spec 46 at 'ring track day last yr, similar driver abilities & the 46 was a really good spec chassis wise APs with rs29, pss10 clubsports, on 888s it was a fun battle, his is full fat road spec & was a lot heavier & lost out in some areas, but the more advanced chassis & wider footprint plus extra power at the bigger speeds, meant it wasn't far off the pace of my e36 overall.
It was a proper spec car tho, the suspension & brakes cost more than my whole car.
Also had Shim of this parish murder me in a mildly modded CSL road car- brakes & suspension & geo at Spa, the extra grip & power really come into play at Spa, you can replicate that car on a regular e46 easily enough & it would be a v decent weapon.
Alternatively buy a separate full on track car, would cost less than mods to a 46 & you have something fully focused & than you can drive your road car to work on Monday if you've had an issue on track at WK end. If you want bimmer- lots of 36s around to a decent spec, or go lightweights caterham etc, whatever floats your boat.
Edited by iguana on Wednesday 11th March 08:46
iguana said:
3 thoughts on that one.
-Price, wow!
-Harnesses set in spine snapping position
-I just did a bit of sick in my mouth after seeing the rear wing.
Other than that, seems good.
Agree about the rear wing. Price is on the strong side but if it was a decent car to start with, its probably reflective of the time and money spent on it. I'd love to have it. I have no connection to the vendor by the way. -Price, wow!
-Harnesses set in spine snapping position
-I just did a bit of sick in my mouth after seeing the rear wing.
Other than that, seems good.
Some good points there, I do use a van as my daily. I'd say my m3 a nice example and can see the the attraction in going the gt3 rs style interior. What I had planned if I was to make the car more track focused was front buckets rear seats out. Cage in and a set of 18s with some decent tyres. Would that be a noticeable difference on track?
http://www.pistonheads.com/gAssing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
http://www.pistonheads.com/gAssing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
A friend of mine has gone down this road with his. With a very stripped out interior (he's removed an unbelievable amount of weight, so much that the car sits about an inch higher) AP brakes etc it is pretty amazing on the track compared to before he started fiddling.
However, to the rest of us, he has ruined as a road car and even he, now only uses it for track days.
If you like using it as a road car, then be careful how far you go. I think that in all honesty he wishes that he had bought something lighter and more focused in the first place, the consumables are now the limiting factor in the number of track days that he does.
Because it is still a relatively heavy car, it gets through, fuel, tyres, brakes etc a lot more that something like a Caterham or Elise.
However, to the rest of us, he has ruined as a road car and even he, now only uses it for track days.
If you like using it as a road car, then be careful how far you go. I think that in all honesty he wishes that he had bought something lighter and more focused in the first place, the consumables are now the limiting factor in the number of track days that he does.
Because it is still a relatively heavy car, it gets through, fuel, tyres, brakes etc a lot more that something like a Caterham or Elise.
I had a nicely sorted 46 m3 with kW v3 on 18" rims with a decent geo set up, it was great on the road, however have just done my first track day in a caterham and I don't think an m3 would see which way it went, much more rewarding. Rent one for a day and you won't want to mod the Beemer.
gareth h said:
I had a nicely sorted 46 m3 with kW v3 on 18" rims with a decent geo set up, it was great on the road, however have just done my first track day in a caterham and I don't think an m3 would see which way it went, much more rewarding. Rent one for a day and you won't want to mod the Beemer.
The Caterham compared to the BMW is a massively different experience though and won't be for everyone. Not only that, but they're pricey for a fast one too.gareth h said:
a caterham and I don't think an m3 would see which way it went.
All depends what track & what Cat, IMHO with experience of a lot of trackdays owned many m3s & a couple of Caterhams, a good spec track m3 with a good driver needs a pretty grunty cat with good driver to give it a kicking.They are ace, but not for everyone.
I'd try and drive all the cars you're thinking of, they are all very different machines!
Money was a big deciding factor for me.
I now have a 220bhp Raw Striker (same as a Caterham but cheaper) and used to have a 510bhp/430tq Evo 8.
My friend has as E46 BMW 3 series saloon with full M3 conversion, remap, new suspension/cage, slicks etc which would be similar to what you're thinking about.
All three are very similar round a track, our usual haunt is Anglesey as I have a house near by but have done Silverstone, Oulton, Castle Combe, and some airfields.
His BMW is very slightly quicker at the moment but he is running slicks which I think gives him the advantage. The Evo was faster (although not much) than the BMW but cost me about 4 times its value tracking it over the same number of years and in the end I gave up and bought the cheap light kit car.
It is so much cheaper, tyres will last 5-6 days or more rather than 2-3 in the Evo, It's cost me nothing in terms of parts in 3 years now where as the Evo needed new engine, gearbox x 3, driveshafts, clutch, brakes etc.
HTH
PS I have a standard E46 M3 which I was considering turning into a track car but it would cost about £15-20k to do it properly and my kit car was £20k new.
Also the thought of consumables after having a cheap to run track car makes me wonder.
I'll probably consider an already track prepped E36 M3 as a kit car replacement when I get older and wind and noise is less appealing.
PPS Yes you'll be spoiling your nice daily drive, it won't be a nice place to sit and may make some passengers feel uneasy.
Money was a big deciding factor for me.
I now have a 220bhp Raw Striker (same as a Caterham but cheaper) and used to have a 510bhp/430tq Evo 8.
My friend has as E46 BMW 3 series saloon with full M3 conversion, remap, new suspension/cage, slicks etc which would be similar to what you're thinking about.
All three are very similar round a track, our usual haunt is Anglesey as I have a house near by but have done Silverstone, Oulton, Castle Combe, and some airfields.
His BMW is very slightly quicker at the moment but he is running slicks which I think gives him the advantage. The Evo was faster (although not much) than the BMW but cost me about 4 times its value tracking it over the same number of years and in the end I gave up and bought the cheap light kit car.
It is so much cheaper, tyres will last 5-6 days or more rather than 2-3 in the Evo, It's cost me nothing in terms of parts in 3 years now where as the Evo needed new engine, gearbox x 3, driveshafts, clutch, brakes etc.
HTH
PS I have a standard E46 M3 which I was considering turning into a track car but it would cost about £15-20k to do it properly and my kit car was £20k new.
Also the thought of consumables after having a cheap to run track car makes me wonder.
I'll probably consider an already track prepped E36 M3 as a kit car replacement when I get older and wind and noise is less appealing.
PPS Yes you'll be spoiling your nice daily drive, it won't be a nice place to sit and may make some passengers feel uneasy.
Edited by Timbuk2 on Thursday 12th March 10:08
Some good points there I suppose I havnt really considered the extra long term costs of tracking a high powered Evo. I do drive the M3 on the roads on weekends if I want to but my van is my daily driver. So there is a bit more tolerance in that department. I do like the M3 for the fact it's good on fuel for what it is and if I had a road set of wheels and a track set I should get a whole summer of them maybe doing a track day per month? It just needs to be quicker and more alive for me. I need to get a passenger ride in one at a track day to compare the difference I think.
I own a e46 m3 and a lotus elise 111r. After running both alongside each other for a period of 6 months and regularly tracking the elise I would not recommend going sowndown the heavily modified m3 route.
IMO even a caged and coilovered m3 wont give the driving satisfaction/dynamics of a lightweight car as the elise. The even bigger concern is the running costs which are in multiples both in the frequency of replacement of consumables and actual cost of replacement parts in comparison to the elise.
The M3 is a great car but its a big comfy sports tourer, if you want to track more often for fun I would personally look for something lighter.
IMO even a caged and coilovered m3 wont give the driving satisfaction/dynamics of a lightweight car as the elise. The even bigger concern is the running costs which are in multiples both in the frequency of replacement of consumables and actual cost of replacement parts in comparison to the elise.
The M3 is a great car but its a big comfy sports tourer, if you want to track more often for fun I would personally look for something lighter.
hughcam said:
I own a e46 m3 and a lotus elise 111r. After running both alongside each other for a period of 6 months and regularly tracking the elise I would not recommend going sowndown the heavily modified m3 route.
IMO even a caged and coilovered m3 wont give the driving satisfaction/dynamics of a lightweight car as the elise. The even bigger concern is the running costs which are in multiples both in the frequency of replacement of consumables and actual cost of replacement parts in comparison to the elise.
The M3 is a great car but its a big comfy sports tourer, if you want to track more often for fun I would personally look for something lighter.
I understand the sentiment. It’s nice to drive a light responsive car. I enjoyed racing single seaters, but there is nothing to beat driving a big GT car at speed. The challenge is greater as is the reward. There are however, more expensive to run because it’s more expensive to move and stop their greater mass. IMO even a caged and coilovered m3 wont give the driving satisfaction/dynamics of a lightweight car as the elise. The even bigger concern is the running costs which are in multiples both in the frequency of replacement of consumables and actual cost of replacement parts in comparison to the elise.
The M3 is a great car but its a big comfy sports tourer, if you want to track more often for fun I would personally look for something lighter.
If budget was the only consideration, I’d agree that something like an Elise or Caterham would be a better choice.
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