Discussion
So I'm hearing the M2 will have a list price of around £36k + VAT.
So £43.4k, mean means it will be nudging on £50k which seems close to F80 M3 money... Do people think it will be that special ? As a previous 1M owner, I'm a little cynical about the M2 but would like to be proved wrong !!
Separately, was called today about the M4 GTS... £121k without options seems madness (not far off 991 GT3 money). Will the limited 30 cars for the UK keep prices high ?
Interested to know what people think of these cars...
So £43.4k, mean means it will be nudging on £50k which seems close to F80 M3 money... Do people think it will be that special ? As a previous 1M owner, I'm a little cynical about the M2 but would like to be proved wrong !!
Separately, was called today about the M4 GTS... £121k without options seems madness (not far off 991 GT3 money). Will the limited 30 cars for the UK keep prices high ?
Interested to know what people think of these cars...
Just shy of £44k OTR is what I've 'heard' also. Launch next Wednesday. 
Manual transmission, rwd, plenty of HP, a proven chassis... i think it will actually smoke the 1M in every area. BUT... it won't have the rarity / speciality cache which attached itself to the 1M.
It won't be a limited run car I don't think.. but I think it will be a very good one. A good daily driver which you can kick around in the corners, take on track, carry passengers with, go on long trips with, use around town etc etc... Big competition for the Cayman and entry-level F Type sector I think. And probably more of an involving drivers car than the standard-guise M4.
I think they will follow a similar depreciation curve to M135i's when they were first launched. First 6-12 month prices will stay quite firm with used cars staying within 25% of the OTR new price after 12 months. Then the initial demand will be met, supply will outweigh demand and the finance contributions / lease offers will start appearing after about 12-18 months. These will in turn cause residual values to decrease... by no means will the prices tank, but don't expect them to do a 1M... so, I'm hoping I'll be able to buy a 2yo car with 10-15k miles for circa £25-30k.
GTS - marketing exercise. Just like the E92 one. Most of them will get locked up in collections. For no good reason other than the rarity they represent.
Manual transmission, rwd, plenty of HP, a proven chassis... i think it will actually smoke the 1M in every area. BUT... it won't have the rarity / speciality cache which attached itself to the 1M.
It won't be a limited run car I don't think.. but I think it will be a very good one. A good daily driver which you can kick around in the corners, take on track, carry passengers with, go on long trips with, use around town etc etc... Big competition for the Cayman and entry-level F Type sector I think. And probably more of an involving drivers car than the standard-guise M4.
I think they will follow a similar depreciation curve to M135i's when they were first launched. First 6-12 month prices will stay quite firm with used cars staying within 25% of the OTR new price after 12 months. Then the initial demand will be met, supply will outweigh demand and the finance contributions / lease offers will start appearing after about 12-18 months. These will in turn cause residual values to decrease... by no means will the prices tank, but don't expect them to do a 1M... so, I'm hoping I'll be able to buy a 2yo car with 10-15k miles for circa £25-30k.
GTS - marketing exercise. Just like the E92 one. Most of them will get locked up in collections. For no good reason other than the rarity they represent.
Kananga said:
Indeed, sorry I was being a bit flippant. With talk of discounts of 9-14% on the M3, I was wondering if the price differential could be less than £5k...
That's a good point though, anyone prepared to wait a little while could probably see similar discounts on the M2 but if you wanted one ASAP then the price difference would be marginal. Food for thought.IMHO, Porsche seem to have cracked the clever nut of undersupplying (and underpricing!) certain 'halo' models like the GT3, GT4, Spyder, etc.
The frenzy around these models must surely help them to retain/enhance brand value and sell another few 1000s of regular models.... BMW seem to be over-supplying the //M models, undermining residuals in the process.
I bought an E46 M3 last year, and am loving it. The previous owner spent a load of money refreshing suspension, and various bits of preventative maintenance. I've spent too much on it as well, but it feels super special, despite its age.
Sadly I don't lust after the new generation of //M models as much. Hopefully I am alone in my thinking but sorely regret selling the previous 1M and M3 CSL.
Not meaning to rant, just think it is a bit of a shame. The M4 GTS is overpriced and doesn't even look that good.
The frenzy around these models must surely help them to retain/enhance brand value and sell another few 1000s of regular models.... BMW seem to be over-supplying the //M models, undermining residuals in the process.
I bought an E46 M3 last year, and am loving it. The previous owner spent a load of money refreshing suspension, and various bits of preventative maintenance. I've spent too much on it as well, but it feels super special, despite its age.
Sadly I don't lust after the new generation of //M models as much. Hopefully I am alone in my thinking but sorely regret selling the previous 1M and M3 CSL.
Not meaning to rant, just think it is a bit of a shame. The M4 GTS is overpriced and doesn't even look that good.
I was concerned about the turbocharged aspect until i drove a 1M, but from reading various road test reviews it sounds like the 1M was an anomaly and the new M3/M4 are "missing something".
Looking forward to driving both to have a better understanding, but it's tough to compare the 3 litre six used in the M3/M4 with the likes of the S50B32 and S65B40. Much as i love the S65, the E92 is a heavy platform and just doesn't feel edgy to me in the same way as the E46 M3 did. I think the E46 (for me a manual CS) was the sweet spot... although i do still have lustings for an E28 M5 too
Looking forward to driving both to have a better understanding, but it's tough to compare the 3 litre six used in the M3/M4 with the likes of the S50B32 and S65B40. Much as i love the S65, the E92 is a heavy platform and just doesn't feel edgy to me in the same way as the E46 M3 did. I think the E46 (for me a manual CS) was the sweet spot... although i do still have lustings for an E28 M5 too
Kananga said:
@ £50k, would you rather own an F80 M3 ?
I took a F82 round Scotland last year. The car was hugely capable, but I was left underwhelmed in a really strange way. Can't really explain it... Almost felt I was not a good enough driver to get the most of it when on the move. And on the route up/down it was so boring I might as well have been in a 330d.To answer your question though... if I needed rear doors, I would 'consider' a F80, despite all the above. I do love the looks and the straight line speed is addictive. I would have to fit the Akra system though. I'd take a gamble and take a manual though. In hindsight I think the main reason I couldn't become 'at one' with the F82 last year was because it was my first time properly trying out a DCT tranny.
I'd also be thinking about the new Giulia QV. I'm excited about Alfa, I think they are on a turnaround. They are where Jag were about 4 years ago currently. Equally, I think leasing/financing is preferable when purchasing new... and if you look at leasing (and need a super saloon), if you negotiate hard and compromise on spec a little, you can have an F10 for not much more than a F80. And that is a totally different beast. Whilst the rumours about the next M5 suggest it will remain a V8, I just can't imagine it will be as loud and brutish as the F10 Comp Pack. So I'd love one of those.
At present, I don't need rear seats. I picked up a JCW a few weeks ago as my daily driver and I'm absolutely loving it. Forgot how great they are. As far as fun car, I have my name down for the 2017 TVR. May sell my current one next year and stop-gap options until 2017 currently are: M2 (maybe there will be a CSL by then?), GT4 (used avec loan) or an Aston N400/N420. Perhaps a 1M.
Cheers
Interesting to read that production is likely to be limited (albeit not to the same extent as the 1M).
Having seen the M2 release info, impulse took over from rationale thought, and one has been ordered. Expecting it to be one of the first deliveries in Spring 2016.
Hopefully not a terrible decision!!
Having seen the M2 release info, impulse took over from rationale thought, and one has been ordered. Expecting it to be one of the first deliveries in Spring 2016.
Hopefully not a terrible decision!!
Think will hit 1m residuals the 1m occupied a niche and held value due to rarity. Why now buy a used 1m instead of a new m2?
And in 2 years used M2s will compete with used 1ms
People like what is rare there is noting that special about a downsized turbo and 1m was easy to engineer for that reason and now it's being scaled
And in 2 years used M2s will compete with used 1ms
People like what is rare there is noting that special about a downsized turbo and 1m was easy to engineer for that reason and now it's being scaled
Absolutely love the M2. £45k sounds steep though but if you can get a decent discount i think it would be a great buy.
A basic, automatic estoril blue would be my choice. I don't see a need to be speccing up. All the pointless gadgets and gizmos detract away from the true essence of the car.
A basic, automatic estoril blue would be my choice. I don't see a need to be speccing up. All the pointless gadgets and gizmos detract away from the true essence of the car.
Interesting that the M2 appears to be using a modified version of the N55 engine when that's in the process of being phased out in favour of the new B58 engine in the mainstream models (340i, etc). The N55 also had a reputation of being less tuneable than the N54 it replaced (which was presumably part of the reason why the N54 was used in the 1M) so perhaps slightly surprising that the N55 is having its last hurrah in a new M car?
Re: M2 production, c.500 units to UK annually, 3 yr production window is what I have been told (so 1,500 units, vs. 450 for 1M vs. 422 for M3 CSL)
Given the weight of the M2 and stuff like the normal mirrors and seats, plenty of scope for BMW to introduce a higher priced but lighter model in 2016 (e.g. M2 CSL) to compete directly with Porsche's GT4. For that reason I moved my deposit from #1 on dealer's list for M2 on to a potentially lighter variant next year.
Given the weight of the M2 and stuff like the normal mirrors and seats, plenty of scope for BMW to introduce a higher priced but lighter model in 2016 (e.g. M2 CSL) to compete directly with Porsche's GT4. For that reason I moved my deposit from #1 on dealer's list for M2 on to a potentially lighter variant next year.
Interesting discussion - I currently have an Estoril Blue M235i well specced up that I love.
I've put down a deposit on an M2 but still have some doubts - I would prefer the 235's 8 speed box to the DCT that I tried in an M4 yesterday - so manual or DCT?
Will the non-electric seats be any lower than the electric sports seats as I find the seat height in the 235 to be too high - some launch day posts spoke about there being a Recaro option but that isn't clear from the official info.
Launch reports talk about a "driver's package" but again this isn't on the option list.
Still a very good looking car and should be great fun - but what could I do to the 235 with £25,000 - buy a big chunk of a Zenos E10S perhaps???
I've put down a deposit on an M2 but still have some doubts - I would prefer the 235's 8 speed box to the DCT that I tried in an M4 yesterday - so manual or DCT?
Will the non-electric seats be any lower than the electric sports seats as I find the seat height in the 235 to be too high - some launch day posts spoke about there being a Recaro option but that isn't clear from the official info.
Launch reports talk about a "driver's package" but again this isn't on the option list.
Still a very good looking car and should be great fun - but what could I do to the 235 with £25,000 - buy a big chunk of a Zenos E10S perhaps???
Had a deposit down since nov last year for this…
Just specced and awaiting on the dealer to do there thing…
Gone black as not sure on the blue.
coming from a 235 i ticked pretty much all boxes so its sat around 51000… which seems pretty steep but have a week to ponder.
Also waiting on confirmation of an extended drive in an m4 so i can try the gearbox.
51000 could get me into a well specd m4 so I'm still slightly undecided on what to do, however i do prefer the smaller cars so this should tick the right boxes.
Just specced and awaiting on the dealer to do there thing…
Gone black as not sure on the blue.
coming from a 235 i ticked pretty much all boxes so its sat around 51000… which seems pretty steep but have a week to ponder.
Also waiting on confirmation of an extended drive in an m4 so i can try the gearbox.
51000 could get me into a well specd m4 so I'm still slightly undecided on what to do, however i do prefer the smaller cars so this should tick the right boxes.
I couldn't find a dealer who would take a deposit until the official announcement on Wednesday. It is only a holding deposit as the BMW ordering system won't take an official order until 1st November. I've also arranged for another M4 test re the DST - this time in the dry though - in the wet and in "zero mechanical sympathy mode" it was losing the tail on every up change!
I just got offered a pre speced m4 for 22% off list so around 46k delivered so needless to say i have an extended drive in the next few weeks.
As far as im aware my M2 order is being placed tomorrow.
BMW will accept orders but dealers are having to place them in a certain way.
They cant currently place orders via the standard order system.
Also strangely i am corporate financing my next car and was told that because no finance company is currently offering anything on the m2 the dealer would place the order and let me jump out of the order at any time.
Even up to the point of delivery... Kinda amazing for a main dealer, but i guess they know that this car will sell on regardless of me taking it or now
As far as im aware my M2 order is being placed tomorrow.
BMW will accept orders but dealers are having to place them in a certain way.
They cant currently place orders via the standard order system.
Also strangely i am corporate financing my next car and was told that because no finance company is currently offering anything on the m2 the dealer would place the order and let me jump out of the order at any time.
Even up to the point of delivery... Kinda amazing for a main dealer, but i guess they know that this car will sell on regardless of me taking it or now
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