E34 M5 or E46 M3
Discussion
Having owned two E46 M3s. One with an evolve carbon box and the other supercharged, I've found myself driving a fat lardy V8 Audi S5. Much as I love the noise, I really, really miss my old M3. Standard is probably a bit slow by golf R standards but i love driving the E46 more than anything. My eye has been drawn recently by the older M5. I haven't driven one yet but they look like fun. Has anyone experiences of moving between the 2???
I've zero experience of that M5, but I think you might find it incredibly slow and old by M3 standards... it's basically a classic now?
Of course, might be what you want. I do know a few people who seem to just break them, it seems that parts are fairly rare in some cases and can be quite expensive if you're unlucky. The M3 doesn't seem to have a supply chain issue.
Of course, might be what you want. I do know a few people who seem to just break them, it seems that parts are fairly rare in some cases and can be quite expensive if you're unlucky. The M3 doesn't seem to have a supply chain issue.
On paper, the E34 M5 is less than 100kg heavier and has 35Nm more torque.
From my experience, there is very little difference in performance on the road, when comparing my old 3.8 to a mate's E46.
The M3 is quicker, but not by much.
As already mentioned, replacement parts can be an issue, as the M5 is 5-10 years older.
From my experience, there is very little difference in performance on the road, when comparing my old 3.8 to a mate's E46.
The M3 is quicker, but not by much.
As already mentioned, replacement parts can be an issue, as the M5 is 5-10 years older.
Well Ive owned an e30M3, a few e36's and a 1 series (1 series is the wife's)
Ive also had 2 e34's (both 520's) and 2 e39's 1 was a 523 and the other a 528sport.
I was once told that once you've owned a 5 series you'll never go back to a 3 series and although Ive never had an M5 I honestly believe this.
An e34m5 or e39M5 is on my wish list
Let us know how you get on....
1 thing to note 6 pot engines sound great
Ive also had 2 e34's (both 520's) and 2 e39's 1 was a 523 and the other a 528sport.
I was once told that once you've owned a 5 series you'll never go back to a 3 series and although Ive never had an M5 I honestly believe this.
An e34m5 or e39M5 is on my wish list
Let us know how you get on....
1 thing to note 6 pot engines sound great
528Sport said:
I was once told that once you've owned a 5 series you'll never go back to a 3 series and although Ive never had an M5 I honestly believe this.
Certainly not true in my case. I had two e46 330cis, then an e39 M5, now I'm back in an e46 M3. The size of the 3 series suits me more than the 5, in fact it's perfect for me.I think you've made the right choice with the M3. The E34 M5 is far more bespoke than its appearance might suggest, with a lot of replacement parts unique to that model. The cost of those can be shocking, and availability a potential issue.
Not forgetting the usual caveats involved when looking at any car that age.
If you change your mind, go for a 3.8...the earlier 3.5 and 3.6 models are not that quick in modern terms, and need a lot of revs. And look for a maintenance record the size of War and Peace.
Not forgetting the usual caveats involved when looking at any car that age.
If you change your mind, go for a 3.8...the earlier 3.5 and 3.6 models are not that quick in modern terms, and need a lot of revs. And look for a maintenance record the size of War and Peace.
I'm not entirely convinced about "never going back to a 3 series". I had a 6 series for a while, which was considerably more luxurious than my E46, however the sheer size of the thing meant that it just wasn't enjoyable for fun drives. As a motorway cruiser, brilliant, but I doubt you're looking at an E34 M5 for a daily hack?
Having just bought an E34 M5 and in the process of bringing it up to scratch I don't totally agree on parts prices or availability.
Some are simply NLA but these tend to be odds and sods which don't keep the car from running. Running parts are easy to source and not too expensive if you do some research and find out who supplied BMW originally.
Don't be fooled into thinking you can run these things on the cheap though. The youngest is over 20 years old now and there's lots of hoses, vac pipes, rubber bushes etc. to replace if they haven't been done which most haven't.EDC suspension can be rebuilt now too so no need for new struts.
Some are really rusty too. Luckily mine is a LHD from a hot climate so no rust at all.
It also looks like it might be one of the factory 408 bhp cars that Paul Rosche had built for some friends during the period.
I'll start a thread when I have some time if anyone is interested.
Some are simply NLA but these tend to be odds and sods which don't keep the car from running. Running parts are easy to source and not too expensive if you do some research and find out who supplied BMW originally.
Don't be fooled into thinking you can run these things on the cheap though. The youngest is over 20 years old now and there's lots of hoses, vac pipes, rubber bushes etc. to replace if they haven't been done which most haven't.EDC suspension can be rebuilt now too so no need for new struts.
Some are really rusty too. Luckily mine is a LHD from a hot climate so no rust at all.
It also looks like it might be one of the factory 408 bhp cars that Paul Rosche had built for some friends during the period.
I'll start a thread when I have some time if anyone is interested.
magno said:
Having just bought an E34 M5 and in the process of bringing it up to scratch I don't totally agree on parts prices or availability.
Some are simply NLA but these tend to be odds and sods which don't keep the car from running. Running parts are easy to source and not too expensive if you do some research and find out who supplied BMW originally.
Don't be fooled into thinking you can run these things on the cheap though. The youngest is over 20 years old now and there's lots of hoses, vac pipes, rubber bushes etc. to replace if they haven't been done which most haven't.EDC suspension can be rebuilt now too so no need for new struts.
Some are really rusty too. Luckily mine is a LHD from a hot climate so no rust at all.
It also looks like it might be one of the factory 408 bhp cars that Paul Rosche had built for some friends during the period.
I'll start a thread when I have some time if anyone is interested.
I'd love to see it and hear about it.Some are simply NLA but these tend to be odds and sods which don't keep the car from running. Running parts are easy to source and not too expensive if you do some research and find out who supplied BMW originally.
Don't be fooled into thinking you can run these things on the cheap though. The youngest is over 20 years old now and there's lots of hoses, vac pipes, rubber bushes etc. to replace if they haven't been done which most haven't.EDC suspension can be rebuilt now too so no need for new struts.
Some are really rusty too. Luckily mine is a LHD from a hot climate so no rust at all.
It also looks like it might be one of the factory 408 bhp cars that Paul Rosche had built for some friends during the period.
I'll start a thread when I have some time if anyone is interested.
You can get MAF refurbished here www.jdsporsche.com/
had mine done excellent service and price
had mine done excellent service and price
Edited by RingsideE34 on Saturday 9th April 09:22
S3_Graham said:
magno said:
Having just bought an E34 M5 and in the process of bringing it up to scratch I don't totally agree on parts prices or availability.
Some are simply NLA but these tend to be odds and sods which don't keep the car from running. Running parts are easy to source and not too expensive if you do some research and find out who supplied BMW originally.
Don't be fooled into thinking you can run these things on the cheap though. The youngest is over 20 years old now and there's lots of hoses, vac pipes, rubber bushes etc. to replace if they haven't been done which most haven't.EDC suspension can be rebuilt now too so no need for new struts.
Some are really rusty too. Luckily mine is a LHD from a hot climate so no rust at all.
It also looks like it might be one of the factory 408 bhp cars that Paul Rosche had built for some friends during the period.
I'll start a thread when I have some time if anyone is interested.
I'd love to see it and hear about it.Some are simply NLA but these tend to be odds and sods which don't keep the car from running. Running parts are easy to source and not too expensive if you do some research and find out who supplied BMW originally.
Don't be fooled into thinking you can run these things on the cheap though. The youngest is over 20 years old now and there's lots of hoses, vac pipes, rubber bushes etc. to replace if they haven't been done which most haven't.EDC suspension can be rebuilt now too so no need for new struts.
Some are really rusty too. Luckily mine is a LHD from a hot climate so no rust at all.
It also looks like it might be one of the factory 408 bhp cars that Paul Rosche had built for some friends during the period.
I'll start a thread when I have some time if anyone is interested.
deadslow said:
Have wondered about these 408bhp cars for years. How did they increase the performance?
There is some speculation about the actual specification - all the guys that were part of the program have retired. BMW will not admit to any car leaving the factory that in effect was not homolgated for road use/sale. The only proven car is one supplied to a Sheikh and actually lists the engine upgrade in the build sheet. Most of the other upgrades (including those to other models) were undertaken in Garching "off book".As for believed spec, it seems to be higher compression,bigger valves, different cam and blueprinted engine. Paul Rosche was known as "Nocken Paul" in germany or Camshaft Paul such was his like of maximising engine performance with cams. The E34 engine is so conservative on ignition timing as BMW wanted to ensure reliability. These engines have no knock sensor so no way of sensing detonation and retarding the ignition so it was set with a lot of retard from the factory. I would imagine the 408 bhp cars carried more advance.
The 3 or 4 cars were supplied to prominent people back in 93/94. One went to Team Bigazzi who ran the race E30 M3's and the F1 GTR. No one seems to know where this car is now.
The link here goes into a lot of detail about the 408 bhp cars. It takes some reading though - 34 pages at the last count!
http://www.m5board.com/vbulletin/e34-m5-discussion...
magno said:
deadslow said:
Have wondered about these 408bhp cars for years. How did they increase the performance?
There is some speculation about the actual specification - all the guys that were part of the program have retired. BMW will not admit to any car leaving the factory that in effect was not homolgated for road use/sale. The only proven car is one supplied to a Sheikh and actually lists the engine upgrade in the build sheet. Most of the other upgrades (including those to other models) were undertaken in Garching "off book".As for believed spec, it seems to be higher compression,bigger valves, different cam and blueprinted engine. Paul Rosche was known as "Nocken Paul" in germany or Camshaft Paul such was his like of maximising engine performance with cams. The E34 engine is so conservative on ignition timing as BMW wanted to ensure reliability. These engines have no knock sensor so no way of sensing detonation and retarding the ignition so it was set with a lot of retard from the factory. I would imagine the 408 bhp cars carried more advance.
The 3 or 4 cars were supplied to prominent people back in 93/94. One went to Team Bigazzi who ran the race E30 M3's and the F1 GTR. No one seems to know where this car is now.
The link here goes into a lot of detail about the 408 bhp cars. It takes some reading though - 34 pages at the last count!
http://www.m5board.com/vbulletin/e34-m5-discussion...
I had originally thought/heard the 408bhp cars were supplied to F1 team principals.
Edited by deadslow on Friday 8th April 21:19
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