On the hunt for a 2010 E60 M5 Possibly instead of a C63..
Discussion
Hi all
my search for a C63 has continued since March this year. (w204 6.2). I've come across a few that have fallen into budget and have either sold or have been too high mileage/a bit rough on inspection.
For a good £10k less however, i've been constantly looking at E60 M5's for the last few weeks. Possible from getting a little impatient looking for a C63. i have read every review and article and most owners opinions on here and on the M5Board.. Even considering several opinions on the SMGII i still think i could live with it no problem, And im also aware of the sligtly scary running costs. i am put off by the fact i have to wring the V10s neck a bit to get the power out (a bit like my R32), in comparison the C63's shove is tremendous even lower down the revs.
i appreciate that i'm comparing apples to oranges with my selection! If a C63 came up today that fit the bill then i'd be straight in for it.. the M5 im seeing as a second option i guess. The only way im going to be happy with having an M5 though is by having one of the last ones, ideally a 2010 car. How realistic is this? i havent come across one at all yet. I specifically request this as it has the newer cic iDrive found in newer BMWs, as found in my new 4 series GC.. the old iDrive looks and feels ancient.
In terms of realworld performance how would these compare? I've drove a few 63's now and even from starting them cold they sound and go like the clappers.. i dont see how i'd ever get board. The gearbox isnt mighty quick in the facelifts but it is much an improvement of over the pre's.. with this in mind i feel the SMG will be fine for fast road driving and generally hooning.
i read the member who compared both estates in this board recently too which was a fantastic read and ultimately i need to drive the v10 to see if i gel with it, but i welcome all others opinions on those who may have experienced both cars.
thanks
Irfan
my search for a C63 has continued since March this year. (w204 6.2). I've come across a few that have fallen into budget and have either sold or have been too high mileage/a bit rough on inspection.
For a good £10k less however, i've been constantly looking at E60 M5's for the last few weeks. Possible from getting a little impatient looking for a C63. i have read every review and article and most owners opinions on here and on the M5Board.. Even considering several opinions on the SMGII i still think i could live with it no problem, And im also aware of the sligtly scary running costs. i am put off by the fact i have to wring the V10s neck a bit to get the power out (a bit like my R32), in comparison the C63's shove is tremendous even lower down the revs.
i appreciate that i'm comparing apples to oranges with my selection! If a C63 came up today that fit the bill then i'd be straight in for it.. the M5 im seeing as a second option i guess. The only way im going to be happy with having an M5 though is by having one of the last ones, ideally a 2010 car. How realistic is this? i havent come across one at all yet. I specifically request this as it has the newer cic iDrive found in newer BMWs, as found in my new 4 series GC.. the old iDrive looks and feels ancient.
In terms of realworld performance how would these compare? I've drove a few 63's now and even from starting them cold they sound and go like the clappers.. i dont see how i'd ever get board. The gearbox isnt mighty quick in the facelifts but it is much an improvement of over the pre's.. with this in mind i feel the SMG will be fine for fast road driving and generally hooning.
i read the member who compared both estates in this board recently too which was a fantastic read and ultimately i need to drive the v10 to see if i gel with it, but i welcome all others opinions on those who may have experienced both cars.
thanks
Irfan
cosworth330 said:
They have a 2010 E60 M5 for sale at my local BMW dealer Ashford Kent, its on the Approved used BMW site, a bit steep at £29,995 though. I think ive only ever seen 1 or 2 2010 models for sale over the years, don't think you'll find another.
that does sound steep! could you post the link please? i was on BMW's used approved this morning and only found a handful of e60's on there and defo didnt see that!thanks
davewhitt said:
just at of interest, do you know how to tell its a 2010 , they are different from a 2008 lci
i believe theier the same from the 2007/9 LCI change, the only major difference being the iDrive system. The 2010 cars and many newer BMW's have a CIC unit, where as the older are CCC.The menus, layout, configuration, featuers and screen are a lot, lot better on the later CIC's. As i said im really impressed with it in my 4 series.. i couldnt imagine using a 'lesser' version of it now, now that i have used a newer vesion..if that makes sense.
if however '10 cars are priced at nearly 30k then i might just have to get used to the older version..ha!
Link http://www.usedcars.bmw.co.uk/M/5.0/Ashford/166511...
I wouldn't waste time trying to find a 2010, you've got more chance finding your perfect Merc. Some of the guys over on BMW5 series.co.uk have retro fitted the CIC units to the E60. There's a guy called Ricky on there and I've seen his CIC setup in his 2007 M5.
The link above, cars prob worth about £22K ish with those miles. You could get a much better low miles one for less.
I wouldn't waste time trying to find a 2010, you've got more chance finding your perfect Merc. Some of the guys over on BMW5 series.co.uk have retro fitted the CIC units to the E60. There's a guy called Ricky on there and I've seen his CIC setup in his 2007 M5.
The link above, cars prob worth about £22K ish with those miles. You could get a much better low miles one for less.
My 2p- I have owned both and would strongly recommend the C63
It's faster, handles and sounds better and is more reliable - Google m5 red cog of death and SMG clutch issues.
The standard C63 is easily mapped to 500hp (Eurocharged does a programmer that allows you to switch between 450 and 500 Hp)
I loved my m5 but the SMG weakness niggles away at me and I traded as soon as warranty was up, the first signs of failure were showing.. Occassionally feels and sounds like you have been rear ended when in stop start traffic..
If your budget stretches get a facelift c63 (MCT gearbox is MUCH better than slush box) with a locking diff if you enjoy tyre smoking sideways driving. If you run in the fastest gearbox mode, the MCT could never be described as slow, and makes much better noises than the BMW DCT box.
Both great cars.. Just a shame about the SMG weakness..
Enjoy whatever you buy
It's faster, handles and sounds better and is more reliable - Google m5 red cog of death and SMG clutch issues.
The standard C63 is easily mapped to 500hp (Eurocharged does a programmer that allows you to switch between 450 and 500 Hp)
I loved my m5 but the SMG weakness niggles away at me and I traded as soon as warranty was up, the first signs of failure were showing.. Occassionally feels and sounds like you have been rear ended when in stop start traffic..
If your budget stretches get a facelift c63 (MCT gearbox is MUCH better than slush box) with a locking diff if you enjoy tyre smoking sideways driving. If you run in the fastest gearbox mode, the MCT could never be described as slow, and makes much better noises than the BMW DCT box.
Both great cars.. Just a shame about the SMG weakness..
Enjoy whatever you buy
Edited by mb26 on Wednesday 15th June 15:54
Edited by mb26 on Wednesday 15th June 15:56
mb26 said:
My 2p- I have owned both and would strongly recommend the C63
It's faster, handles and sounds better and is more reliable - Google m5 red cog of death and SMG clutch issues.
The standard C63 is easily mapped to 500hp (Eurocharged does a programmer that allows you to switch between 450 and 500 Hp)
I loved my m5 but the SMG weakness niggles away at me and I traded as soon as warranty was up, the first signs of failure were showing.. Occassionally feels and sounds like you have been rear ended when in stop start traffic..
If your budget stretches get a facelift c63 (MCT gearbox is MUCH better than slush box) with a locking diff if you enjoy tyre smoking sideways driving. If you run in the fastest gearbox mode, the MCT could never be described as slow, and makes much better noises than the BMW DCT box.
Both great cars.. Just a shame about the SMG weakness..
Enjoy whatever you buy
A friend owned a pre-facelift C63 with PP while I still had my M5. Many a play, was close upto around 90 leptons but M5 was overall the faster car without a doubt. M5 superior build, comfort and quality as well as more luxurious imho. M5 the faster car too as the speeds rise. M5 for the better handling too. SMG3 better than the slower auto box in the C63 for fast driving but the C63 box better for normal daily driving. All imho of course.It's faster, handles and sounds better and is more reliable - Google m5 red cog of death and SMG clutch issues.
The standard C63 is easily mapped to 500hp (Eurocharged does a programmer that allows you to switch between 450 and 500 Hp)
I loved my m5 but the SMG weakness niggles away at me and I traded as soon as warranty was up, the first signs of failure were showing.. Occassionally feels and sounds like you have been rear ended when in stop start traffic..
If your budget stretches get a facelift c63 (MCT gearbox is MUCH better than slush box) with a locking diff if you enjoy tyre smoking sideways driving. If you run in the fastest gearbox mode, the MCT could never be described as slow, and makes much better noises than the BMW DCT box.
Both great cars.. Just a shame about the SMG weakness..
Enjoy whatever you buy
Edited by mb26 on Wednesday 15th June 15:54
Edited by mb26 on Wednesday 15th June 15:56
Autocar 0-150 mph:
E60 M5 21.0
C63 (Pre Facelift) 22.9
That's a significant gap, The M5 will be .8 of a mile ahead of the C63 by then!
As a 'point and squirt' machine the C63 AMG will be quicker especially around town and lower-medium speed areas. On back roads though, when the V10 comes on song the M5 will march away, it's much more of a responsive and engaging tool, in the same way the E92 M3 is viewed as a miles better drivers car than the C63.
thanks for your input so far guys.
with regards to a C63, its only a facelift i would consider. i've done enough reading on those to last me a life time.. im not bothered no the PPP cars as i understnad they respond great to a remap should i ever get bored. I have also test drove several and had my cousins car for a week christmas time while he enjoyed my R32, safe to say that was enough for me to know i wanted the c63! his was a non PPP facelift coupe in stunning fire opal, with the black 19's.
anyway. im yet to drive an M5 and think i just need to, theres a black 55 plate not far from is for sale and i will pop over for a look. i don really want to waste anyones time so ideally id like to find a car id potentially buy.
ive read about the red cog of death and various user complaints with the SMG, but i honestly dont think it would bother me. the MCT in the c63 was not really ground breaking when i compare it to the DSG or ZF8 in our current cars, i wont be tracking the car so i think for general fast (private?) road driving it'll be fine. i think im a bit bothered about the little torque low down from what i keep hearing, but i guess thats down for me to decide on a test drive. I'm not sure what others are comparing thier cars too, but my R32's torque is actually very accessible from early revs, the C63 is monumentous, and in comparison i felt my best friends B7 RS4 was a bit ghastly to drive ( to the 63).
thanks for pointing out about the CIC iDrive too, that will render my search for a 2010 car pointless and in that case i will base my search on condition and history. Does bother me that some cars are 10/11 years old now. i just cant stop youtubing and searching the classi's for them, a v10 in a saloon will never be seen again!
with regards to a C63, its only a facelift i would consider. i've done enough reading on those to last me a life time.. im not bothered no the PPP cars as i understnad they respond great to a remap should i ever get bored. I have also test drove several and had my cousins car for a week christmas time while he enjoyed my R32, safe to say that was enough for me to know i wanted the c63! his was a non PPP facelift coupe in stunning fire opal, with the black 19's.
anyway. im yet to drive an M5 and think i just need to, theres a black 55 plate not far from is for sale and i will pop over for a look. i don really want to waste anyones time so ideally id like to find a car id potentially buy.
ive read about the red cog of death and various user complaints with the SMG, but i honestly dont think it would bother me. the MCT in the c63 was not really ground breaking when i compare it to the DSG or ZF8 in our current cars, i wont be tracking the car so i think for general fast (private?) road driving it'll be fine. i think im a bit bothered about the little torque low down from what i keep hearing, but i guess thats down for me to decide on a test drive. I'm not sure what others are comparing thier cars too, but my R32's torque is actually very accessible from early revs, the C63 is monumentous, and in comparison i felt my best friends B7 RS4 was a bit ghastly to drive ( to the 63).
thanks for pointing out about the CIC iDrive too, that will render my search for a 2010 car pointless and in that case i will base my search on condition and history. Does bother me that some cars are 10/11 years old now. i just cant stop youtubing and searching the classi's for them, a v10 in a saloon will never be seen again!
Dan_M5 said:
My friend has the c63 507 edition and it's pretty much on par with the e60 it's the gear changes that win in the c63
The 507 is 0-150 in 20.6s
I believe that time you quoted is the factory estimation? (not tested).The 507 is 0-150 in 20.6s
Edited by Dan_M5 on Thursday 16th June 10:07
Autocar 0-150 mph:
C63 AMG Black Series (510 bhp) 22.6
Edited by zainster on Thursday 16th June 12:44
irfan1712 said:
The menus, layout, configuration, featuers and screen are a lot, lot better on the later CIC's. As i said im really impressed with it in my 4 series.. i couldnt imagine using a 'lesser' version of it now, now that i have used a newer vesion..if that makes sense.
Your current Idrive (I also have a 2015 Idrive) is leaps and bounds ahead of a 2010 CIC unit (I had one in a 2010 335i). Dont think just because they look the same they are. The speed, features, screen size etc is way better now. If your current 4GC I drive started working like a 2010 one you'd know about it.Try using a smart phone from 2010 and see!
I wouldn't hold out just for that, as said you can get the bits and have it coded in if you really wanted it. I would think the car needs to be right mechanically first. It's a pity they weren't available with no NAV / i drive then it wouldn't date so badly.
I've always thought of the C63 saloon as an alternative to my M5 or an M3 but the styling of the C63 just doesn't do it for me. Front end and front wings look good but the rear arches and back end isn't that great. The 2015 C63 looks nice though. My E60 M5 is just a toy really as I don't need a second car but I can see where people are coming from when they say the C63 would be easier as a day to day car. If I had to have only one car to go to work etc I would not choose an E60 M5. My M5 has been very reliable over nearly 3 years and i've never experienced the banging that someone mentioned when using SMG III. SMG III for the road is great on a charge and ok around town but i'm sure the C63 auto box would be much better for day to day driving. I found the SMG perfect on track absolutely brilliant on track, way better than a manual or auto.
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