E30 + E92 = E39 M5?
Discussion
I've owned an E30 325i since 2012 and love it, after years of swearing and wallet destroying expense it is sorted and I do around 2,000 fair weather miles in it a year. My daily is an E92 330i, an impulse buy in 2014 with mega miles making it mega affordable.
The current setup is great, but the E30 isn't used enough. It's stored away from home meaning I need to plan when I use it. Its age and the money spent to tidy it up means spontaneous use is limited.
The more modern BMW line up is technically brilliant but the automatic gearboxes and turbo engines don't appeal, not that I've driven anything modern. This and the unused E30 have left me with man logic that I need to buy something older. I'd already decided on something with four doors and want to tick the M car box. An E39 M5 would be a good fit, or so I've convinced myself. To have money in the bank for things going wrong I can only afford a pre-facelift model with six figure mileage, and to do this I'd have to sell the E30 and E92. I also need to do research on the common issues with E39s, the M5 variant and go in eyes open in terms of wallet emptying potential (especially tin worm!). Selling both means I have one car to do everything and can use it all year round.
I hoped that I'd be unable to insure one but it will cost nothing to swap the E92 policy, so all that stands in the way from SWMBO strife is me hating it on a test drive. The E30 is really special, and the E92 balances running costs and fun pretty well. I'd like an E39 M5 someday but I worry that they will appreciate and it's a now or never moment for buying. I'm trying to balance this against seeing my E30 being driven away, do E39s have any of the old school charm or are they too modern?
Opinions welcome!
The current setup is great, but the E30 isn't used enough. It's stored away from home meaning I need to plan when I use it. Its age and the money spent to tidy it up means spontaneous use is limited.
The more modern BMW line up is technically brilliant but the automatic gearboxes and turbo engines don't appeal, not that I've driven anything modern. This and the unused E30 have left me with man logic that I need to buy something older. I'd already decided on something with four doors and want to tick the M car box. An E39 M5 would be a good fit, or so I've convinced myself. To have money in the bank for things going wrong I can only afford a pre-facelift model with six figure mileage, and to do this I'd have to sell the E30 and E92. I also need to do research on the common issues with E39s, the M5 variant and go in eyes open in terms of wallet emptying potential (especially tin worm!). Selling both means I have one car to do everything and can use it all year round.
I hoped that I'd be unable to insure one but it will cost nothing to swap the E92 policy, so all that stands in the way from SWMBO strife is me hating it on a test drive. The E30 is really special, and the E92 balances running costs and fun pretty well. I'd like an E39 M5 someday but I worry that they will appreciate and it's a now or never moment for buying. I'm trying to balance this against seeing my E30 being driven away, do E39s have any of the old school charm or are they too modern?
Opinions welcome!
SoupAnxiety said:
I'd like an E39 M5 someday but I worry that they will appreciate and it's a now or never moment for buying.
This was exactly my fear, which pushed me (finally) into getting one around six months ago. I bought a high-miler at the bottom of the market. Have a read here: https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...SoupAnxiety said:
do E39s have any of the old school charm or are they too modern?
I'll caveat this my saying I've never driven an E30, but I've driven a handful of E36s (plus a load of 80s Japanese stuff). The M5 for me is a great compromise - it's lovely, quiet, and refined on the motorway but is still enough of a challenge to drive quickly and smoothly to be enjoyable. There's plenty of old-school charm there!You say you'll go in with your eyes open, but - really - go in with your eyes open. I've probably spent half the purchase price again over the last six months and there's more to do. And the EML came on again this morning.
I still love it though
I'll be honest. I was anti-non manual for years. Until around 2014. What changed that?
Having a Mondeo 2.5 Auto 5 speed for years, with a few choice mods and actually getting it working correctly. I was doing 6k a month back then too. But I bought a 3.0 6 speed manual which I'll admit was IMO a nicer car for me.
What really changed me was driving an M235i; Here was a car that had driving modes and an autobox that made sense. It was great in auto and superb in manual. You really could have your cake & eat it, but come back for more! The harder modes did still thud a little. The C350e I had out as a loaner was pretty much the same, bar being better in town thanks to the electric motor and having a crap engine note.
From what you've said though I'd be tempted with an E39. I've driven a couple of E36s and never come away with an X-Factor (not that one) about them. An E39 however is a different kettle of fish. As said they have a great amount of refinement but are superb cars.
The only fly in the ointment for me would be an E90 M3. But they have their own share of issues.
If you want to see what can be spent on them I'd look at the above thread as well as NurburgSingh's thread too.
I've driven an M4 for quite some time previously and that is a lovely car! The engine being turbocharged does not bother me in the slighest. It just goes and goes! What I didn't like was how big it felt and how twitcy the example I felt was to drive in the wet, even at normal speeds. Coming from older stuff I wasn't the biggest fan of the M4's steering but I've driven worse. The M2 is a car I'd look at going forwards for me, but they are not exactly what I'd call cheap.
Having a Mondeo 2.5 Auto 5 speed for years, with a few choice mods and actually getting it working correctly. I was doing 6k a month back then too. But I bought a 3.0 6 speed manual which I'll admit was IMO a nicer car for me.
What really changed me was driving an M235i; Here was a car that had driving modes and an autobox that made sense. It was great in auto and superb in manual. You really could have your cake & eat it, but come back for more! The harder modes did still thud a little. The C350e I had out as a loaner was pretty much the same, bar being better in town thanks to the electric motor and having a crap engine note.
From what you've said though I'd be tempted with an E39. I've driven a couple of E36s and never come away with an X-Factor (not that one) about them. An E39 however is a different kettle of fish. As said they have a great amount of refinement but are superb cars.
The only fly in the ointment for me would be an E90 M3. But they have their own share of issues.
If you want to see what can be spent on them I'd look at the above thread as well as NurburgSingh's thread too.
I've driven an M4 for quite some time previously and that is a lovely car! The engine being turbocharged does not bother me in the slighest. It just goes and goes! What I didn't like was how big it felt and how twitcy the example I felt was to drive in the wet, even at normal speeds. Coming from older stuff I wasn't the biggest fan of the M4's steering but I've driven worse. The M2 is a car I'd look at going forwards for me, but they are not exactly what I'd call cheap.
Edited by SebringMan on Thursday 29th March 09:37
Edited by SebringMan on Thursday 29th March 09:38
Tomorrow will be one year for me with my e39 M5 - and the costs have been minimal:
- 3 x litre of oil in 10,000 miles
- one set of rear brake pads
- service and oil change
- new tyres
the 3 litres of oil is low oil consumption for a car where the manufacturer spec. is one litre every 6-900 miles! But the general opinion is that facelift models use less oil...
So, absolutely nothing which I wouldn't consider normal wear and tear on any car - and that is 10,000 miles of hard driving...
My mechanic went over the whole car with a fine toothcomb and reported no issues at all - nothing up coming, no rust, zero issues...
now mine is possibly one of the best condition e39 M5s around, bought as a mid-miler towards the top of the price range - but in the advice I took before buying the common view was that if you buy one for £20k you may find you have no issues - buy one for £10K and you might find that you can spend £10k on it and still not end up with as good a car as the £20k one...
it is absolutely a car that rewards buying well, and while there are some good ones around at lower prices, the better ones which have been looked after on a no-expense basis could prove to be cheaper to own longer term - plus be more likely to go up in value... Mine even came with a detailer's report listing all the protection on the car, and how to look after it!!!
So, I would be very cautious about buying a cheaper one, buy the best you can afford and then look after it - they are not all money pits...
- 3 x litre of oil in 10,000 miles
- one set of rear brake pads
- service and oil change
- new tyres
the 3 litres of oil is low oil consumption for a car where the manufacturer spec. is one litre every 6-900 miles! But the general opinion is that facelift models use less oil...
So, absolutely nothing which I wouldn't consider normal wear and tear on any car - and that is 10,000 miles of hard driving...
My mechanic went over the whole car with a fine toothcomb and reported no issues at all - nothing up coming, no rust, zero issues...
now mine is possibly one of the best condition e39 M5s around, bought as a mid-miler towards the top of the price range - but in the advice I took before buying the common view was that if you buy one for £20k you may find you have no issues - buy one for £10K and you might find that you can spend £10k on it and still not end up with as good a car as the £20k one...
it is absolutely a car that rewards buying well, and while there are some good ones around at lower prices, the better ones which have been looked after on a no-expense basis could prove to be cheaper to own longer term - plus be more likely to go up in value... Mine even came with a detailer's report listing all the protection on the car, and how to look after it!!!
So, I would be very cautious about buying a cheaper one, buy the best you can afford and then look after it - they are not all money pits...
^^^. This.
I've had two E39 M5's and would have another if I could justify the price of a good one now.
Preface lifts probably won't increase in value the same way the Facelifts will as everyone wants a facelift. I have owned both and preferred the Facelift.
Rust is a big issue with these, especially the rust that you cannot see, such as in the jacking points and above the fuel tank. Rust hides under the plastic covers on the underside of the floor.
I've had two E39 M5's and would have another if I could justify the price of a good one now.
Preface lifts probably won't increase in value the same way the Facelifts will as everyone wants a facelift. I have owned both and preferred the Facelift.
Rust is a big issue with these, especially the rust that you cannot see, such as in the jacking points and above the fuel tank. Rust hides under the plastic covers on the underside of the floor.
I've owned 2 E39 M5's... one pre and one post LCI.
Loved them both but I sold my second because tin worm was starting and I didn't have the time to get on top of that and the other pending maintenance issues back then... new disks & pads, tyres, wheel refurb, suspension refresh, etc., etc.
Bought an E90 DCT to replace it and still have it six years later.
The E39 is a wonderful piece of kit, so well engineered, fast, solid, great looking and my heart regularly has me scouring the classifieds.
BUT... I then jump in the E90 and the combination of the S65 and DCT is on a different level for me. Try one and if you decide to buy go for an LCI. They are rare with only around 250 originally sold in the UK.
Ideally I'd have an E39 and an E90 but if I had to choose you'll find the answer above... just!
Loved them both but I sold my second because tin worm was starting and I didn't have the time to get on top of that and the other pending maintenance issues back then... new disks & pads, tyres, wheel refurb, suspension refresh, etc., etc.
Bought an E90 DCT to replace it and still have it six years later.
The E39 is a wonderful piece of kit, so well engineered, fast, solid, great looking and my heart regularly has me scouring the classifieds.
BUT... I then jump in the E90 and the combination of the S65 and DCT is on a different level for me. Try one and if you decide to buy go for an LCI. They are rare with only around 250 originally sold in the UK.
Ideally I'd have an E39 and an E90 but if I had to choose you'll find the answer above... just!
There is a good summary of e39 changes (not just M5) here:
http://e39source.com/archives/1848
the face lift is a much nicer car...
but the engine which is what pulls it all together is not that different...
http://e39source.com/archives/1848
the face lift is a much nicer car...
but the engine which is what pulls it all together is not that different...
Get one that hasn't been used all year round and you will have the rust issue sorted then and there, mine is a 84000 mile my 2000, it has been run in the winter early in it life but not for the last 12 years and it is mint rust wise. I ran it between june when I bought it and put it in a nice dry garage in october before the frst and salt, drove approx 2500 miles last summer and it chugged 1.2 liters in total of 10w60, half of that in the first 100 miles (been off the road since 2014, needed to settle in I guess)
I've only had one M5, but I have had 7 other e39's and imo the earlier ones rust less than the facelift ones, if that is true or not I don't know, but for me the earlier ones were less or not rusty at all.
I agree that facelifts will appreciate more in general, but a well kept un-molested car will appreciate ALOT in the coming decade regardless of year of manufacture.
As said a few posts up, go in this with your eyes open, a tatty one will cost a fortune to run, a nice one will cost a small fortune to buy but most likely will be a better companion later on and will most likely be less of a wallet buster.
Mine as said is a 2000, according to the beards that the "worst" one to get, bit mine came with a pack of reciepts near 10000 sterling so it feels safe.
Regarding the old school feel. yes, in spades, yet comfy and quiet. Very rewarding if driven well too. get one, an as good one as you can.
Shameless pic of mine, original wheels fitted since:
I've only had one M5, but I have had 7 other e39's and imo the earlier ones rust less than the facelift ones, if that is true or not I don't know, but for me the earlier ones were less or not rusty at all.
I agree that facelifts will appreciate more in general, but a well kept un-molested car will appreciate ALOT in the coming decade regardless of year of manufacture.
As said a few posts up, go in this with your eyes open, a tatty one will cost a fortune to run, a nice one will cost a small fortune to buy but most likely will be a better companion later on and will most likely be less of a wallet buster.
Mine as said is a 2000, according to the beards that the "worst" one to get, bit mine came with a pack of reciepts near 10000 sterling so it feels safe.
Regarding the old school feel. yes, in spades, yet comfy and quiet. Very rewarding if driven well too. get one, an as good one as you can.
Shameless pic of mine, original wheels fitted since:
Edited by PowerslideSWE on Saturday 31st March 19:49
Thanks for all the replies!
I taxed my E30 today and went for a looooong drive. I won't be selling it, ever.
This means my E39 dream will have to wait until I've saved up. Most likely appreciation will prevent me from doing it but I can't give up my E30. The E92 isn't bad either, I've got two great cars to keep me occupied before I scratch the M itch.
I've still not driven an E39 M5. If any friendly PHers in Cheshire with one would take me out as a passenger please PM me!
I taxed my E30 today and went for a looooong drive. I won't be selling it, ever.
This means my E39 dream will have to wait until I've saved up. Most likely appreciation will prevent me from doing it but I can't give up my E30. The E92 isn't bad either, I've got two great cars to keep me occupied before I scratch the M itch.
I've still not driven an E39 M5. If any friendly PHers in Cheshire with one would take me out as a passenger please PM me!
Here's my imola red e39
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
Happy to give you a ride, depending on how far into Cheshire you are. Macclesfield and Knutsford easy for me
Ian
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
Happy to give you a ride, depending on how far into Cheshire you are. Macclesfield and Knutsford easy for me
Ian
ism123 said:
Here's my imola red e39
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
Happy to give you a ride, depending on how far into Cheshire you are. Macclesfield and Knutsford easy for me
Ian
How did I miss your thread? Looks great all original, a path mine will slowly embark upon aswell.https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
Happy to give you a ride, depending on how far into Cheshire you are. Macclesfield and Knutsford easy for me
Ian
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