A real M, or just a gimmick?

[Opapayer]

Not sure if this has been asked before, but BMW now have a range of M bikes. These are officially considered M vehicles by BMW, link below. Previously they’ve offered M Sport versions of their Sports range. Think 335i M Sport, rather than M3, but these new bikes are now known as M models in their own right. They’ve been around for a couple of years now.

So what say you? Real M, or not?

I’ll admit upfront to being biased. I’ve owned three M cars in my time E92 M3 and 2 x F82 M4, but just picked up my first M1000R today and it is truly astounding. Thread in the Biker Banter section, with a couple of (very poor) photos.

https://www.bmw-motorrad.co.uk/en/models/m/overvie...

I’m hoping this doesn’t get moved as it’s not really a motorbike discussion, it’s supposed to be an M vehicle discussion.

[Snubs]

I personally don't see why not. The 'M' badge is going to mean different things to different people, and possibly a slightly different thing when applied to bikes rather than cars, but if it's engineered by the M-division and has top-tier performance (I'm not a biker but I think it safe to say those M bikes will be insane and make driving my M4 feel more like a diesel Golf), then why not? Much more of a real M than the XM ever was imo.

[dibblecorse]

in bike circles the M means nothing, the most important letter identifier is at the end rather than the beginning, generally an R or RR is deemed top of the tree, although there are some exceptions with limited run bikes.

[Opapayer]

dibblecorse said:

in bike circles the M means nothing, the most important letter identifier is at the end rather than the beginning, generally an R or RR is deemed top of the tree, although there are some exceptions with limited run bikes.

The M clearly means something to BMW if you read the link I attached previously and below. RR is an abbreviation of Race Replica, the R just Race, as it’s a naked bike, so not replicating the fairings & wings. The M aspect on these bikes is primarily related to the engine and some tweaks made to the over chassis to improve handling.


https://www.bmw-motorrad.co.uk/en/models/m/overvie...

[dibblecorse]

Opapayer said:

dibblecorse said:

in bike circles the M means nothing, the most important letter identifier is at the end rather than the beginning, generally an R or RR is deemed top of the tree, although there are some exceptions with limited run bikes.

The M clearly means something to BMW if you read the link I attached previously and below. RR is an abbreviation of Race Replica, the R just Race, as it s a naked bike, so not replicating the fairings & wings. The M aspect on these bikes is primarily related to the engine and some tweaks made to the over chassis to improve handling.


https://www.bmw-motorrad.co.uk/en/models/m/overvie...

What BMW marketing department writes is fairly irrelevant and what the bike buying public behaviours say is that no one in bike circles talks about M bikes in the way they do M cars, it just has no relevance and doesn't resonate as there is no heritage the way there is with the M cars.

Might mean something to BMW but bjkers don't go ooh its a Mxxx bike, they just see a BMW

[Opapayer]

dibblecorse said:

What BMW marketing department writes is fairly irrelevant and what the bike buying public behaviours say is that no one in bike circles talks about M bikes in the way they do M cars, it just has no relevance and doesn't resonate as there is no heritage the way there is with the M cars.

Might mean something to BMW but bjkers don't go ooh its a Mxxx bike, they just see a BMW

Huh? Isn’t the whole point that BMW own the M-brand so can do whatever they want with it? The fact it’s recognised as a BMW is probably a positive for the company’s brand. Much like when people look at other brands and just see a red bike, or a green one. At some point the M brand had no heritage, so you have to start somewhere.

[dibblecorse]

Opapayer said:

dibblecorse said:

What BMW marketing department writes is fairly irrelevant and what the bike buying public behaviours say is that no one in bike circles talks about M bikes in the way they do M cars, it just has no relevance and doesn't resonate as there is no heritage the way there is with the M cars.

Might mean something to BMW but bjkers don't go ooh its a Mxxx bike, they just see a BMW

Huh? Isn t the whole point that BMW own the M-brand so can do whatever they want with it? The fact it s recognised as a BMW is probably a positive for the company s brand. Much like when people look at other brands and just see a red bike, or a green one. At some point the M brand had no heritage, so you have to start somewhere.

But they aren't really building an M brand in bikes, the M will never be the BMW equivalent of Kawas ZX or Yamahas R or Hondas CBR ..... in fact, most people apart from the adventure riders on GS's treat BMW bikes as not quite the best of anything when it comes to sports bikes, they are ok, they just aren't that special when compared to many others out there and trolling the M badge won't help that .

[Opapayer]

dibblecorse said:

But they aren't really building an M brand in bikes, the M will never be the BMW equivalent of Kawas ZX or Yamahas R or Hondas CBR ..... in fact, most people apart from the adventure riders on GS's treat BMW bikes as not quite the best of anything when it comes to sports bikes, they are ok, they just aren't that special when compared to many others out there and trolling the M badge won't help that .

How do you know they’re not building a brand? You have to start somewhere if you’re going to do something and their statements seem fairly explicit on that. You also don’t know what they can or will be the equivalent of. In the 1960s people scoffed that the likes of Honda, Kawasaki, Suzuki and Yamaha could rival the dominance British brands like Triumph, BSA and Norton. How did that pan out?

Also, the current World Champions on silhouette production bikes are BMW, so they’re not playing at that based on the past few years. Whether it was down to the insane excellence of their no.1 rider or not is moot, they still achieved it.

[dibblecorse]

Opapayer said:

dibblecorse said:

But they aren't really building an M brand in bikes, the M will never be the BMW equivalent of Kawas ZX or Yamahas R or Hondas CBR ..... in fact, most people apart from the adventure riders on GS's treat BMW bikes as not quite the best of anything when it comes to sports bikes, they are ok, they just aren't that special when compared to many others out there and trolling the M badge won't help that .

How do you know they re not building a brand? You have to start somewhere if you re going to do something and their statements seem fairly explicit on that. You also don t know what they can or will be the equivalent of. In the 1960s people scoffed that the likes of Honda, Kawasaki, Suzuki and Yamaha could rival the dominance British brands like Triumph, BSA and Norton. How did that pan out?

Also, the current World Champions on silhouette production bikes are BMW, so they re not playing at that based on the past few years. Whether it was down to the insane excellence of their no.1 rider or not is moot, they still achieved it.

And Ford turned over Ferrari at Le Mans eventually ....

Not sure if you're just some BMW fanboy ..... They won't figure ine WSB this year without Toprak, the 22nd bike has been nowhere near the first .... whereas all the other manufacturers have had better consistency across their results ...

Also the car analogy doesn't really work .... we weren't discussing dominance, we were discussing what the M badge means to bikes and it means the sum total of bugger all !!!

[Opapayer]

dibblecorse said:

And Ford turned over Ferrari at Le Mans eventually ....

Not sure if you're just some BMW fanboy ..... They won't figure ine WSB this year without Toprak, the 22nd bike has been nowhere near the first .... whereas all the other manufacturers have had better consistency across their results ...

Also the car analogy doesn't really work .... we weren't discussing dominance, we were discussing what the M badge means to bikes and it means the sum total of bugger all !!!

So much for attempting to hold a sensible discussion. Amazing how fragile some people are about Ducati. Still Marc Marquez is doing the business nicely at GP level, probably the greatest rider of all time, soon to be confirmed.

[dibblecorse]

Opapayer said:

dibblecorse said:

And Ford turned over Ferrari at Le Mans eventually ....

Not sure if you're just some BMW fanboy ..... They won't figure ine WSB this year without Toprak, the 22nd bike has been nowhere near the first .... whereas all the other manufacturers have had better consistency across their results ...

Also the car analogy doesn't really work .... we weren't discussing dominance, we were discussing what the M badge means to bikes and it means the sum total of bugger all !!!

So much for attempting to hold a sensible discussion. Amazing how fragile some people are about Ducati. Still Marc Marquez is doing the business nicely at GP level, probably the greatest rider of all time, soon to be confirmed.

This has bugger all to do with Ducati, I think the most iconic moniker led bikes are the Japanese with the R1 and ZX10R, instantly recognisable for what they are, the halo bike, Ducati in recent years have lost their way a little and its changed through the generations, SPS, then the R's, diluted a bit by the SL's so not sure why you think i have a fragility around Ducatis ... MM93, not for me will he ever be the GOAT, but we are all allowed an opinion.

[Opapayer]

dibblecorse said:

This has bugger all to do with Ducati, I think the most iconic moniker led bikes are the Japanese with the R1 and ZX10R, instantly recognisable for what they are, the halo bike, Ducati in recent years have lost their way a little and its changed through the generations, SPS, then the R's, diluted a bit by the SL's so not sure why you think i have a fragility around Ducatis ... MM93, not for me will he ever be the GOAT, but we are all allowed an opinion.

To summarise your iconic bikes are the Japanese bikes that had no heritage when they launched 60 years ago and were roundly mocked, but you’ve picked their bikes from 30 years ago as the icons. Spot the irony.

Of course you’re going to disagree about MM93. The same stats that drove your support of A. N. Other rider are the same stats you’re going to deny when MM93 has them in his back pocket.

[dibblecorse]

Opapayer said:

dibblecorse said:

This has bugger all to do with Ducati, I think the most iconic moniker led bikes are the Japanese with the R1 and ZX10R, instantly recognisable for what they are, the halo bike, Ducati in recent years have lost their way a little and its changed through the generations, SPS, then the R's, diluted a bit by the SL's so not sure why you think i have a fragility around Ducatis ... MM93, not for me will he ever be the GOAT, but we are all allowed an opinion.

To summarise your iconic bikes are the Japanese bikes that had no heritage when they launched 60 years ago and were roundly mocked, but you ve picked their bikes from 30 years ago as the icons. Spot the irony.

Of course you re going to disagree about MM93. The same stats that drove your support of A. N. Other rider are the same stats you re going to deny when MM93 has them in his back pocket.

No, you started a discussion about does the M mean anything, not what does the marque stand for, do please try and keep up with your own thinking, I've given you examples of other manufacturers specific halo model designation and the fact bikers give it credence, which they don't for M bikes, not sure how you've got yourself confused on this, R1s and ZX10Rs are still iconic bikes today, in fact there was no R1 30 years ago...

Stats don't alone make for a GOAT.... but again, you'd probably struggle to get that.

[Opapayer]

dibblecorse said:

No, you started a discussion about does the M mean anything, not what does the marque stand for, do please try and keep up with your own thinking, I've given you examples of other manufacturers specific halo model designation and the fact bikers give it credence, which they don't for M bikes, not sure how you've got yourself confused on this, R1s and ZX10Rs are still iconic bikes today, in fact there was no R1 30 years ago...

Stats don't alone make for a GOAT.... but again, you'd probably struggle to get that.

No, I asked is the bike a real M, or just a gimmick? If you look at the title of the thread there’s a clue in there. You then went off on a tangent about heritage, using Japanese bikes as an example, brands and bikes that had no heritage not long ago, rather than focussing on the question around M bikes and whether they’re real a real M product, or just a gimmick.

The question isn’t about whether other bikers give it credence. It’s whether the bike is a true M model or not. Get it? Bikers are fickle, some are excessively brand obsessed and literally only buy one brand and all the associated merchandise as if it proves some sort of lifestyle. This isn’t about, which bike is best, it’s about whether a new BMW model described as an M is genuinely an M or not.

Not sure I can make this any clearer for you.

As for the GOAT comment, that’s another aspect of some people’s slavish devotion to a cult. Great riders come and go, some leave a lasting legacy, some leave a stain by tarnishing what should have been an amazing career.

[dibblecorse]

Opapayer said:

dibblecorse said:

No, you started a discussion about does the M mean anything, not what does the marque stand for, do please try and keep up with your own thinking, I've given you examples of other manufacturers specific halo model designation and the fact bikers give it credence, which they don't for M bikes, not sure how you've got yourself confused on this, R1s and ZX10Rs are still iconic bikes today, in fact there was no R1 30 years ago...

Stats don't alone make for a GOAT.... but again, you'd probably struggle to get that.

No, I asked is the bike a real M, or just a gimmick? If you look at the title of the thread there s a clue in there. You then went off on a tangent about heritage, using Japanese bikes as an example, brands and bikes that had no heritage not long ago, rather than focussing on the question around M bikes and whether they re real a real M product, or just a gimmick.

The question isn t about whether other bikers give it credence. It s whether the bike is a true M model or not. Get it? Bikers are fickle, some are excessively brand obsessed and literally only buy one brand and all the associated merchandise as if it proves some sort of lifestyle. This isn t about, which bike is best, it s about whether a new BMW model described as an M is genuinely an M or not.

Not sure I can make this any clearer for you.

As for the GOAT comment, that s another aspect of some people s slavish devotion to a cult. Great riders come and go, some leave a lasting legacy, some leave a stain by tarnishing what should have been an amazing career.

ok, will keep it simple with zero context as that seems the limit of your comprehension.

Are they real M's or a gimmick.. they are neither a real M in the true sense of how the M is perceived and not a gimmick either, just a model line.

I've just noticed you've bought one so guessing you just want smoke blowing up your harris, post the same 8n Bike Banter if you want more views, some that may shock and horror you that differ from mine and yours.

regards GOAT status,you really need to calm down before you blow a valve fella.

[Opapayer]

dibblecorse said:

ok, will keep it simple with zero context as that seems the limit of your comprehension.

Are they real M's or a gimmick.. they are neither a real M in the true sense of how the M is perceived and not a gimmick either, just a model line.

I've just noticed you've bought one so guessing you just want smoke blowing up your harris, post the same 8n Bike Banter if you want more views, some that may shock and horror you that differ from mine and yours.

regards GOAT status,you really need to calm down before you blow a valve fella.

I can buy a bike and not need validation from others. This is the first BMW I’ve bought in a good few years, I like to mix up the type and brand I buy.

No valves being blown here, that’s reserved for unreliable Italian bikes IME.

I think we can leave it here now, unless you want to keep coming back with feeble personal insults.

[dibblecorse]

Opapayer said:

dibblecorse said:

ok, will keep it simple with zero context as that seems the limit of your comprehension.

Are they real M's or a gimmick.. they are neither a real M in the true sense of how the M is perceived and not a gimmick either, just a model line.

I've just noticed you've bought one so guessing you just want smoke blowing up your harris, post the same 8n Bike Banter if you want more views, some that may shock and horror you that differ from mine and yours.

regards GOAT status,you really need to calm down before you blow a valve fella.

I can buy a bike and not need validation from others. This is the first BMW I ve bought in a good few years, I like to mix up the type and brand I buy.

No valves being blown here, that s reserved for unreliable Italian bikes IME.

I think we can leave it here now, unless you want to keep coming back with feeble personal insults.

Mate no feeble insults from what I've seen, you're obviously just a sensitive soul..

Blown valves ? no idea what you're on about jow but in nearly 250k of miles on italian bikes I've had 2 breakdowns, do you believe Alaska still rust on sight of rain?

So whats your experience of Italian bikes, direct, not anecdotal, come on, dazzle me ...

[dibblecorse]

Opapayer said:

dibblecorse said:

ok, will keep it simple with zero context as that seems the limit of your comprehension.

Are they real M's or a gimmick.. they are neither a real M in the true sense of how the M is perceived and not a gimmick either, just a model line.

I've just noticed you've bought one so guessing you just want smoke blowing up your harris, post the same 8n Bike Banter if you want more views, some that may shock and horror you that differ from mine and yours.

regards GOAT status,you really need to calm down before you blow a valve fella.

I can buy a bike and not need validation from others. This is the first BMW I ve bought in a good few years, I like to mix up the type and brand I buy.

No valves being blown here, that s reserved for unreliable Italian bikes IME.

I think we can leave it here now, unless you want to keep coming back with feeble personal insults.

Mate no feeble insults from what I've seen, you're obviously just a sensitive soul..

Blown valves ? no idea what you're on about jow but in nearly 250k of miles on italian bikes I've had 2 breakdowns, do you believe Alaska still rust on sight of rain?

So whats your experience of Italian bikes, direct, not anecdotal, come on, dazzle me ...

[Opapayer]

dibblecorse said:

Mate no feeble insults from what I've seen, you're obviously just a sensitive soul..

Blown valves ? no idea what you're on about jow but in nearly 250k of miles on italian bikes I've had 2 breakdowns, do you believe Alaska still rust on sight of rain?

So whats your experience of Italian bikes, direct, not anecdotal, come on, dazzle me ...

In the below you can’t see any insults? So you’d say the bits below in bold to people in real life and think it’s acceptable? I doubt it. Even the “sensitive soul” comment is a feeble passive aggressive comment.

You were the one suggesting blown valves. I don’t get upset about ex-racers so definitely not me blowing valves. I don’t need to explain anything to you about my bike history, you’re the one who seems a tad upset when I suggested Italian bikes can go pop. They can and do. As do other bike brands. Not sure what Alaska has to do with any of this, it’s a big state and quite wet, so it may well rust.

dibblecorse said:

ok, will keep it simple with zero context as that seems the limit of your comprehension.

Are they real M's or a gimmick.. they are neither a real M in the true sense of how the M is perceived and not a gimmick either, just a model line.

I've just noticed you've bought one so guessing you just want smoke blowing up your harris, post the same 8n Bike Banter if you want more views, some that may shock and horror you that differ from mine and yours.

regards GOAT status,you really need to calm down before you blow a valve fella.

[dibblecorse]

Opapayer said:

dibblecorse said:

Mate no feeble insults from what I've seen, you're obviously just a sensitive soul..

Blown valves ? no idea what you're on about jow but in nearly 250k of miles on italian bikes I've had 2 breakdowns, do you believe Alaska still rust on sight of rain?

So whats your experience of Italian bikes, direct, not anecdotal, come on, dazzle me ...

In the below you can t see any insults? So you d say the bits below in bold to people in real life and think it s acceptable? I doubt it. Even the sensitive soul comment is a feeble passive aggressive comment.

You were the one suggesting blown valves. I don t get upset about ex-racers so definitely not me blowing valves. I don t need to explain anything to you about my bike history, you re the one who seems a tad upset when I suggested Italian bikes can go pop. They can and do. As do other bike brands. Not sure what Alaska has to do with any of this, it s a big state and quite wet, so it may well rust.

dibblecorse said:

ok, will keep it simple with zero context as that seems the limit of your comprehension.

Are they real M's or a gimmick.. they are neither a real M in the true sense of how the M is perceived and not a gimmick either, just a model line.

I've just noticed you've bought one so guessing you just want smoke blowing up your harris, post the same 8n Bike Banter if you want more views, some that may shock and horror you that differ from mine and yours.

regards GOAT status,you really need to calm down before you blow a valve fella.

yes, I would say that to you, to your face if in real life you seemed to struggle as much with comprehension as you seem to have here.

Apologies, Alaska should have read Alfas...

You're obviously just a troll that isn't getting the bite you want but keep with the old tropes and enjoy your weekend fella, as I will, safe in the knowledge you'll be back to have the last word.