Discussion
It dawned on me that in all my years, I'd never actually driven a BMW. Of any type. Anywhere. Ever. So ecurie25's new M3 (the E92 model for those of you into artificial preservatives) seemed as good a place to start as any.
It is certainly a handsome beast, but does have something of a heaviness and slab sided-ness to the looks to my eyes, although the gorgeous roof does a great job in diverting one's gaze. That bonnet bulge and attendant 'nostrils' provides a very American muscle car look, but mysteriously there didn't seem much of a need for it in terms of squeezing the V8 under the hood (but I guess pedestrian impact safety requirements might have dictated its design). Inside is a very comfortable place to be, with all of the latest gadgets and knick-knacks that seem to festoon today's automotive offerings, including electric seat belt helpers for the hard of reaching! I found there was plenty of space, and a comfortable driving position was easy to arrange. A curious arrangement of key that plugs into the dashboard and a starter button gets things rolling, with the variable red-line indication as the engine warmed up a nice touch.
The engine is a real peach - free revving and with plenty of punch, if lacking a little in the V8 growl stakes. It seems that the boys in Bavaria haven't yet mastered the automatic exhaust valving that others have used to great effect in giving voice to their big bangers. The chassis is also great and provides a very sporty driving experience, albeit with noticeable weight to manage, with a most definite oversteer bias to the handling which is very welcome (but, I suspect, waiting to catch the unsuspecting out). The servotronic steering is a disappointment though, feeling very over-assisted (I couldn't tell you if the assistance was variable) and providing little feedback from the front. I only tried it in the one mode ('Sport'), but can't imagine that 'Normal' was any better.
Talking of modes, you'd need to spend an awful lot of time driving your M3 to try out all of the permutations and combinations of the EDC, steering, power and DSC settings: does it really take four suspension options, three power, three stability control and two steering options to allow the driver to tune the car to their liking (I make that about 72 different setups)? It is certainly not something you'd want to try and change on the move through the iDrive labrynth (although some of the options are also available through their own dedicated buttons). The 'M' button on the steering wheel can be programmed with your favourite setup, but infuriatingly once pressed isn't persistant - once the car is started again it has to be pressed again. To be fair, this is the same for many other manufacturers, but why?
I can also see how the 'BMW-driver-lack-of-indicator-syndrome' stereotype has come to be perpetuated: for such a simple control they seem to have made it unfathomably complicated. I'm not sure I can explain how it works, but the stalk seemed to detemine - based on a number of almost random variables - whether it was going to flash the indicators three times, keep the indicators on, automatically cancel them with the steering or not cancel them until you had moved the stalk again (invariably involving turning the opposing direction signal on in the process). It was much easier simply not to touch the damn things ...
So to the hot debate: M3 or RS4? I'd still plump for the one with four rings on the front (not as a saloon mind you) as it seems to be a more focused performance tool, not so encumbered with the electric frippery and computer gadgets as the Beemer. I think there is a great opportunity for a really stripped down and lightweight CSL version of the M3: replace the fatboy recliners with CF shelled race seats, ditch all of the unnecessary electric motors (I'll grab my own seat belt, thanks), leave the iDrive at the factory and tweak the steering feel and it could be a much closer thing.
Hopefully it won't be so long until my next BMW experience, for the M3 certainly was a great driver's car. Before then though, I need to work out how to open the boot - never did find the button ....
It is certainly a handsome beast, but does have something of a heaviness and slab sided-ness to the looks to my eyes, although the gorgeous roof does a great job in diverting one's gaze. That bonnet bulge and attendant 'nostrils' provides a very American muscle car look, but mysteriously there didn't seem much of a need for it in terms of squeezing the V8 under the hood (but I guess pedestrian impact safety requirements might have dictated its design). Inside is a very comfortable place to be, with all of the latest gadgets and knick-knacks that seem to festoon today's automotive offerings, including electric seat belt helpers for the hard of reaching! I found there was plenty of space, and a comfortable driving position was easy to arrange. A curious arrangement of key that plugs into the dashboard and a starter button gets things rolling, with the variable red-line indication as the engine warmed up a nice touch.
The engine is a real peach - free revving and with plenty of punch, if lacking a little in the V8 growl stakes. It seems that the boys in Bavaria haven't yet mastered the automatic exhaust valving that others have used to great effect in giving voice to their big bangers. The chassis is also great and provides a very sporty driving experience, albeit with noticeable weight to manage, with a most definite oversteer bias to the handling which is very welcome (but, I suspect, waiting to catch the unsuspecting out). The servotronic steering is a disappointment though, feeling very over-assisted (I couldn't tell you if the assistance was variable) and providing little feedback from the front. I only tried it in the one mode ('Sport'), but can't imagine that 'Normal' was any better.
Talking of modes, you'd need to spend an awful lot of time driving your M3 to try out all of the permutations and combinations of the EDC, steering, power and DSC settings: does it really take four suspension options, three power, three stability control and two steering options to allow the driver to tune the car to their liking (I make that about 72 different setups)? It is certainly not something you'd want to try and change on the move through the iDrive labrynth (although some of the options are also available through their own dedicated buttons). The 'M' button on the steering wheel can be programmed with your favourite setup, but infuriatingly once pressed isn't persistant - once the car is started again it has to be pressed again. To be fair, this is the same for many other manufacturers, but why?
I can also see how the 'BMW-driver-lack-of-indicator-syndrome' stereotype has come to be perpetuated: for such a simple control they seem to have made it unfathomably complicated. I'm not sure I can explain how it works, but the stalk seemed to detemine - based on a number of almost random variables - whether it was going to flash the indicators three times, keep the indicators on, automatically cancel them with the steering or not cancel them until you had moved the stalk again (invariably involving turning the opposing direction signal on in the process). It was much easier simply not to touch the damn things ...
So to the hot debate: M3 or RS4? I'd still plump for the one with four rings on the front (not as a saloon mind you) as it seems to be a more focused performance tool, not so encumbered with the electric frippery and computer gadgets as the Beemer. I think there is a great opportunity for a really stripped down and lightweight CSL version of the M3: replace the fatboy recliners with CF shelled race seats, ditch all of the unnecessary electric motors (I'll grab my own seat belt, thanks), leave the iDrive at the factory and tweak the steering feel and it could be a much closer thing.
Hopefully it won't be so long until my next BMW experience, for the M3 certainly was a great driver's car. Before then though, I need to work out how to open the boot - never did find the button ....
Looks nice and intresting write up sir. Wouldn't mind a go in one of those to compare to my own.
The thing with the indicators annoyed me too. I drove an e60 M5 when they were first realised and this has them. I found myself doing exactly what you did - not using them. Whats that age old saying, "if it ain't broke, don't fix it". God knows what they were thinking when they installed that
.
The thing with the indicators annoyed me too. I drove an e60 M5 when they were first realised and this has them. I found myself doing exactly what you did - not using them. Whats that age old saying, "if it ain't broke, don't fix it". God knows what they were thinking when they installed that
. 
jeremyc said:
Talking of modes, you'd need to spend an awful lot of time driving your M3 to try out all of the permutations and combinations of the EDC, steering, power and DSC settings: does it really take four suspension options, three power, three stability control and two steering options to allow the driver to tune the car to their liking (I make that about 72 different setups)? It is certainly not something you'd want to try and change on the move through the iDrive labrynth (although some of the options are also available through their own dedicated buttons). The 'M' button on the steering wheel can be programmed with your favourite setup, but infuriatingly once pressed isn't persistant - once the car is started again it has to be pressed again. To be fair, this is the same for many other manufacturers, but why?
Surely this is something to look forward too? Personalising your car to exactly the way you want it with the touch a button/scroll of the i-drive? It's a bit like Labours policy on offering more 'choice' to the people....
Re pressing the M button everytime you get in isn't that much of a chore compared with holding down the DSC button for 5secs everytime you start it as per a non M model...
dazren said:
Totally agree with BMW's over engineering of the indicators.
WHY!!!!!!!
Not convinced the indicators are a bad things. You can configure to do 3 blips on a single touch in the iDrive. I reckon after a week or two I'll have adjusted and it will be preferable.WHY!!!!!!!I'm hoping a future update of the software will let us start the car in MDM, then the M button turns off DSC completely. There's no reason not to always be in MDM as far as I can see.
Once you are used to the indicators they are fine. But as someone who jumps between a lot of different cars they were bloody annoying and the car (not the driver!) will have been giving confusing signals all over the place.
IMHO basic car controls should not require reading a 500 page manual or be confusing to a driver new to the car.
IMHO basic car controls should not require reading a 500 page manual or be confusing to a driver new to the car.
dazren said:
Once you are used to the indicators they are fine. But as someone who jumps between a lot of different cars they were bloody annoying and the car (not the driver!) will have been giving confusing signals all over the place.
IMHO basic car controls should not require reading a 500 page manual or be confusing to a driver new to the car.
Agree completely. I've got them sorted now but shouldn't even need to think about it IMO. However quite like being 'handed' my seat belt - even though I guess that's another unnecessary complication. Amazingly, after everything I'd read, I love the idrive too.IMHO basic car controls should not require reading a 500 page manual or be confusing to a driver new to the car.
Pugsey said:
dazren said:
Once you are used to the indicators they are fine. But as someone who jumps between a lot of different cars they were bloody annoying and the car (not the driver!) will have been giving confusing signals all over the place.
IMHO basic car controls should not require reading a 500 page manual or be confusing to a driver new to the car.
Agree completely. I've got them sorted now but shouldn't even need to think about it IMO. However quite like being 'handed' my seat belt - even though I guess that's another unnecessary complication. Amazingly, after everything I'd read, I love the idrive too.IMHO basic car controls should not require reading a 500 page manual or be confusing to a driver new to the car.
jeremyc said:
Pugsey said:
dazren said:
Once you are used to the indicators they are fine. But as someone who jumps between a lot of different cars they were bloody annoying and the car (not the driver!) will have been giving confusing signals all over the place.
IMHO basic car controls should not require reading a 500 page manual or be confusing to a driver new to the car.
Agree completely. I've got them sorted now but shouldn't even need to think about it IMO. However quite like being 'handed' my seat belt - even though I guess that's another unnecessary complication. Amazingly, after everything I'd read, I love the idrive too.IMHO basic car controls should not require reading a 500 page manual or be confusing to a driver new to the car.
Seriously is it a prob then? Can't you just do it manualy? You've got me going now - I'll pop out and try it.Pugsey said:
jeremyc said:
So pugsey, how do you open the boot with the engine running?
Er, not being able to run at 100mph I never tried! Seriously is it a prob then? Can't you just do it manualy? You've got me going now - I'll pop out and try it.
Of course it could be as simple as a button actually on/under the boot lid, but I didn't try that (not doing manual work an' all ...
).Edited by jeremyc on Tuesday 6th November 10:48
jeremyc said:
Pugsey said:
jeremyc said:
So pugsey, how do you open the boot with the engine running?
Er, not being able to run at 100mph I never tried! Seriously is it a prob then? Can't you just do it manualy? You've got me going now - I'll pop out and try it.Of course it could be as simple as a button actually on/under the boot lid, but I didn't try that (not doing manual work an' all ...
).Edited by jeremyc on Tuesday 6th November 10:48
PS. What is 'shopping'?
I regularly drive a 6 and 5 series with the Idrive and i find it really slow and cumbersome (the idrive not the car) and then when I get back in my Z4M it's just so easy, everything is simple and to hand and it works a treat, its one of the reason why I love the Z4, technology for technology sake is not always a good thing
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