E36 M3 EVO Trackday Suspension

[lsclayton]

I know you are thinking not another discussion on suspension.

However, I have read a tonne of stuff on a load of forums and I am still none the wiser.

So I thought I would try to start a thread and see if I could make sense.

I need to replace my tired, worn out old original suspension on my '97 M3 Evo.

The car is only getting used as a trackday car. So dont bother adding to this thread if you want to talk about your car that is used on normal roads also.

Having just been made redundant I am looking for good value replacement suspension.

I have been looking at the following:
Spax RSX
GAX GHA
BC-Racing

I have also spotted some 2nd hand KW V3's on ebay in UK & Germany and also some H&R (not sure which model at the moment).

Let me know you experiences, of any of the above including buying 2nd hand or anything that you would consider good value replacements for OEM equipment for trackday use.


PS: Anybody looking for an IT Director, I am available!!!

[scz4]

I've had Gaz Gold GHA kit on my Evo for a month or so now, including one trackday and they were very impressive. The car no handles superbly and is much more fun to drive, handling like a proper trackday car should. I never trusted the M3 in the handling department, but now I have a lot more confidence in throwing it around. Even a small amount of adjustment makes a noticable difference. See here for pics on how the car sits -

http://pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&f...

[E36GUY]

I too have just had the GAZ gold coilover kit fitted. Not really had a good chance for a proper test drive yet but am very impressed with the new handling despite having the ride height to set high to cope with speed bumps in London. Will be lowering shortly for Nurburgring trip at Easter. However, car corners very flat already (you can set the damping/rebound as desired) and although I have it set quite stiff, the ride is still reasonable although not quite as smooth as it was obviously. I also got the adjustable camber top mounts so am able to set the negative camber as well. Finally, I have fitted 12mm spacers on the front ready for lowering. Car turns in so well now and I can't wait to try it properly on the twisty stuff

[Nords]

The ones you mention are 'okay' but are replacements rather than upgrades. Unless you use KW, Intrax, Ohlins, Nitrons etc (which cost), then you are going to get an average ability...

[E36GUY]

Nords said:

The ones you mention are 'okay' but are replacements rather than upgrades. Unless you use KW, Intrax, Ohlins, Nitrons etc (which cost), then you are going to get an average ability...

Care to explain why exactly? My opinion is that there is some great kit out there that does as good a job as those above but are not big brand names like Ohlins.

[taffyracer]

Intrax, the rest you mention are NOT track designed and therefore will not perform on track as a track shock would

Edited by taffyracer on Saturday 21st March 06:04

[lsclayton]

To strart with thanks for the great feedback already.
I understand that people will have different opinions and I respect that, as I would hope everyone else would.

Therefore if you are going to say one thing is better than another it is worthwhile adding the explanation for your opinion.

In all honesty, anything will be better than the OEM stuff that is currently fitted.

The back-end is very floaty, way too soft.

I had it at the Nurburgring last year not long after it got purchased and whilst the car was very well planted you could feel the roll at the rear, but then the car just stuck and got round really well.

That said I would expect once I do replace the current setup I would expect a significant improvement.


The BC-racing shocks I have been looking at appear to be very good value for money (as they come with pillow-ball mounts for front and rear), but they dont have the history or rep of other brands. It must be quite difficult for a brand to establish itself especially in such a competitive market.

Does anyone have experience of these shocks ?


I guess KW look good value when you compare then to intrax or nitron or ohlins, but unless I buy then second hand right now they are out of my price range.

Edited by lsclayton on Saturday 21st March 18:40

[ryan-isla]

taffyracer said:

Intrax, the rest you mention are NOT track designed and therefore will not perform on track as a track shock would

Edited by taffyracer on Saturday 21st March 06:04

What a load of crap Gaz are not a track designed suspension kit. All the front running cars use Gaz in these race championships http://www.pbmwc.co.uk/ and http://www.pbmwc.co.uk/TTRS/

[Nords]

ryan-isla said:

taffyracer said:

Intrax, the rest you mention are NOT track designed and therefore will not perform on track as a track shock would

Edited by taffyracer on Saturday 21st March 06:04

What a load of crap Gaz are not a track designed suspension kit. All the front running cars use Gaz in these race championships http://www.pbmwc.co.uk/ and http://www.pbmwc.co.uk/TTRS/

Is that what they sell to the public for road use though? I suspect they have stuff which costs the same as Intrax or KW?

E36GUY said:

Nords said:

The ones you mention are 'okay' but are replacements rather than upgrades. Unless you use KW, Intrax, Ohlins, Nitrons etc (which cost), then you are going to get an average ability...

Care to explain why exactly? My opinion is that there is some great kit out there that does as good a job as those above but are not big brand names like Ohlins.

Well, you get what you pay for (roughly) with suspension. Proper racing development, R&D, best materials all cost, please don't think I was rubbishing the kit mentioned, more an observation that if you pay £X you will get kit which is on a par with the BMW stuff when it was new. To get a real improvement, you need to look at the £1.5K+ mark (unless you find some 2nd hand)...

PS Massive difference between the std rear GSXR1000 shock and my ohlins. I couldn't afford the matching front forks so it only has KTec internals. I was lucky enough that I bought my CSL with Intrax already on. I was going to change it back to std and sell it but I think I'm keeping it now...

Edited by Nords on Sunday 22 March 10:35

Edited by Nords on Sunday 22 March 12:46

[ryan-isla]

Gaz Gold suspension kit for an E36 retail price £826 + vat. This can be used on road or track. Just go stiffer spring rates for competition use. Even the Top Gear boys used Gaz suspension on their E46 when they entered the Britcar 24hr endurance race. The stig was lapping in very quick times.

[taffyracer]

ryan-isla said:

Gaz Gold suspension kit for an E36 retail price £826 + vat. This can be used on road or track. Just go stiffer spring rates for competition use. Even the Top Gear boys used Gaz suspension on their E46 when they entered the Britcar 24hr endurance race. The stig was lapping in very quick times.

No he wasn't and that car was ste, the PBMW championship is all about cost and no thrills and not about outright performance, Gaz do make some track oriented shocks, but at £800 they won't be a patch on Intrax or any other track shock at that price range! It's quite simple really, you get what you pay for, if you're on a budget go budget, if you're not buy better, but don't think for 1 sec that budget stuff will compare with race designed shocks because they won't

Edited by taffyracer on Monday 23 March 08:31

[lsclayton]

I swapped some emails with absolutelyshocks recently about GAZ gold's and they told me that the golds are what are used by the production BMW championship boys.

I have also seen it somewhere that the e46 that topgear used for britcar 24 had GAZ fitted.

Does anyone know of the real difference between the GAZ Gold and GHA shocks ?

Anybody out there wish to add the comments on suspension other than Gaz and KW ?

Edited by lsclayton on Monday 23 March 23:01

[ryan-isla]

taffyracer said:

ryan-isla said:

Gaz Gold suspension kit for an E36 retail price £826 + vat. This can be used on road or track. Just go stiffer spring rates for competition use. Even the Top Gear boys used Gaz suspension on their E46 when they entered the Britcar 24hr endurance race. The stig was lapping in very quick times.

No he wasn't and that car was ste, the PBMW championship is all about cost and no thrills and not about outright performance, Gaz do make some track oriented shocks, but at £800 they won't be a patch on Intrax or any other track shock at that price range! It's quite simple really, you get what you pay for, if you're on a budget go budget, if you're not buy better, but don't think for 1 sec that budget stuff will compare with race designed shocks because they won't

Edited by taffyracer on Monday 23 March 08:31

So your saying the PBMW championship and the TTRS has no thrills. Im sure the drivers will be pleased with that comment when they read it. Also your saying that anyone who want's to do a few track days has to spend £2000 + on Intrax etc ! I don't think so. One of the PBMW drivers has just spent £4000 on Ohlins and he couldn't catch some of the drivers who run Gaz Gold's.

[dan101smith]

I've currently got the low-end Intrax kit on mine, and for a street car doing trackdays is fine. Cost was around £1k IIRC.

My intention is to enter the Kumho series though, so will be swapping for 1K2 or similar in the not-too-distant future.

[lsclayton]

Stop arguing between yourselves and agree you have a difference of opinion.
It would be a boring world if we all agreed with each other; but this thread is hardly the time and place.

Would you all agree that it is best to go for damping adjustable, not just height adjustable ?

[asbo]

ryan-isla said:

taffyracer said:

ryan-isla said:

Gaz Gold suspension kit for an E36 retail price £826 + vat. This can be used on road or track. Just go stiffer spring rates for competition use. Even the Top Gear boys used Gaz suspension on their E46 when they entered the Britcar 24hr endurance race. The stig was lapping in very quick times.

No he wasn't and that car was ste, the PBMW championship is all about cost and no thrills and not about outright performance, Gaz do make some track oriented shocks, but at £800 they won't be a patch on Intrax or any other track shock at that price range! It's quite simple really, you get what you pay for, if you're on a budget go budget, if you're not buy better, but don't think for 1 sec that budget stuff will compare with race designed shocks because they won't

Edited by taffyracer on Monday 23 March 08:31

So your saying the PBMW championship and the TTRS has no thrills. Im sure the drivers will be pleased with that comment when they read it. Also your saying that anyone who want's to do a few track days has to spend £2000 + on Intrax etc ! I don't think so. One of the PBMW drivers has just spent £4000 on Ohlins and he couldn't catch some of the drivers who run Gaz Gold's.

So many vriables though.

I agree with Taffy and speak with some experience on the matter. You generally tend to get what you pay for. What you want to pay depends largely on what you want to get out of your suspension.

Certainly on the 'Ring, I found that my AC Schnitzer coilovers (Coil-over fronts and seperate rears) were a little out of their depth on some of the more demanding parts of the track.

[lsclayton]

I agree with the "so many variables"

including in no small part, the driver.
Each person prefers the own particular feel to a car.

As for The Ring...that is a whole different story, the length of lap, the surfaces and the bumpiness compared to most UK circuits.

As I said earlier in the thread I have driven my M3 at the ring last year not long after it was purchased, the suspension showed itself to be very soft then, but the natural talents of the vehicle gave me confidence to be able to set similar times to t twicehat I had the year before in a 997 Carrera S.


Based on the fact that I will probably only venture to The Ring once at most twice a year, means I will be looking for a setup that is better suited to UK circuits as I will be doing approx 6-10 of them a year.

Although I am looking forward to the last weekend in May at the Le Mans bugatti circuit.


Is anyone out there running suspension other than Gaz, KW or the really expensive stuff ?
I am interested in your experiences.

[dan101smith]

lsclayton said:

Is anyone out there running suspension other than Gaz, KW or the really expensive stuff ?
I am interested in your experiences.

The lack of replies should be your answer.

PSS10s aren't bad, but they're about £1000.

I'd strongly suggest you save up a little while longer, to save yourself from buying suspension twice.

[asbo]

dan101smith said:

lsclayton said:

Is anyone out there running suspension other than Gaz, KW or the really expensive stuff ?
I am interested in your experiences.

The lack of replies should be your answer.

PSS10s aren't bad, but they're about £1000.

I'd strongly suggest you save up a little while longer, to save yourself from buying suspension twice.

OP also bear in mind that there are different types of track go-er with different levels of knowledge on this specific subject. The odd once or twice a year attendee who spends most of his time on the road would be ill-advised to go for hard-core remote resevoir units with limited travel. Then again the serious enthusiast who will likely convert his car into a dedicated track-toy would be ill-advised to scrimp on such a vital component.

Bottom line is that the established players in the business are well regarded because they can supply a product suitable for race applications and have the knowledge to back it up. You pay less and you tend to get less. Simple as. However, for your circumstances, less may be more than enough, if you follow.

[E36GUY]

All this is very well but still no-one answers the question of WHY the big brand names are better?