No one put the S54 into the E36 yet?

[scz4]

Guys,

Is there a technical reason why no one has transferred a S54 (E46 M3) unit into the E36 M3 Evo yet? Is the problem with the fly-by-wire or an incomatability between the E36 and E46 ECU setup, perhaps the immobiliser built into the E46 key etc??

Or is it just down to cost?

I guess the other engine conversion I'd be interested in is the latest 335i or 135i twin turbo engine, but that must be a lot harder to install!

G

Edited by scz4 on Wednesday 25th March 12:08

[Paul_M3]

I would guess the main reason no-body has done it yet is because it isn't worth the hassle.

Like you say, the ECU, fly by wire etc would be a lot of work and you'd end up with an engine that isn't much more powerful than an E36 Evo engine anyway.

It would be more cost effective to tune the E36 engine.

[mat205125]

Paul_M3 said:

I would guess the main reason no-body has done it yet is because it isn't worth the hassle.

Why bother when you can just go out and buy the whole car.

[scz4]

mat205125 said:

Why bother when you can just go out and buy the whole car.

Because I've already spent many ££££'s on getting the suspension and brakes sorted for the track. If I go an buy an E46 m3 I am back to stage one, slightly quicker car but not much use elsewhere.

It's also a higher value to risk on track.

Edited by scz4 on Wednesday 25th March 12:53

[Phugoid]

What are the main differences between the Evolution engine and the S54? I know the VANOS on the former is notoriously unreliable but they both produce around the same power and efficiency, is the S54 only a 'minor' development of the S52?

[scz4]

Phugoid said:

What are the main differences between the Evolution engine and the S54? I know the VANOS on the former is notoriously unreliable but they both produce around the same power and efficiency, is the S54 only a 'minor' development of the S52?

I am not personally sure on the technicalities to be honest. I know they are both still iron blocks, not sure if they are related or not, I'd imagine so. The problem is thee S50 rarely makes the claimed power of315bhp, more like 300bhp. Where as the S54 makes 335-340bhp regularly and since they are stronger, they are a better base for supercharging (This is a long term goal)

[rampz]

mat205125 said:

Paul_M3 said:

I would guess the main reason no-body has done it yet is because it isn't worth the hassle.

Why bother when you can just go out and buy the whole car.

because (to me!!) the e36 looks much nicer

[scz4]

Done a little more digging. Sounds like Geoff Steel Racing have converted 4 or 5 cars recently, so it is possible

[mat205125]

scz4 said:

Done a little more digging. Sounds like Geoff Steel Racing have converted 4 or 5 cars recently, so it is possible

Links, pics or details?

[scz4]

You need to be a member, but similar discussion going on here -

http://www.bmwowner.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=17&a...

[Diesel Meister]

Here's one

I like the S54 a lot but tbh, just buy an E46 if you want one that badly.

Or perhaps, if you're set on a faster, more exclusive (and expensive) E36, stick the S62 in there

[Phugoid]

scz4 said:

Phugoid said:

What are the main differences between the Evolution engine and the S54? I know the VANOS on the former is notoriously unreliable but they both produce around the same power and efficiency, is the S54 only a 'minor' development of the S52?

I am not personally sure on the technicalities to be honest. I know they are both still iron blocks, not sure if they are related or not, I'd imagine so. The problem is thee S50 rarely makes the claimed power of315bhp, more like 300bhp. Where as the S54 makes 335-340bhp regularly and since they are stronger, they are a better base for supercharging (This is a long term goal)

True. Anyone know the technical differences?

I think the Evo (& non-Evo) powerplant sounds better anyway.

[dan101smith]

Another vote for not worth the hassle to me.

For the cost of the transplant you could get an M3 Evo up to 360bhp, which is CSL power.

[scz4]

dan101smith said:

For the cost of the transplant you could get an M3 Evo up to 360bhp, which is CSL power.

I've never seen proof of an N/A S50 plant making that power, lots of claims and bull s### though. If it is possible, certainly isn't without very lumpy cams which results in a horrible driving experience, I've been there before. A standard S54 is always going to be more reliable than a tunned S50 setup.

What sort of parts are you talking about to get that power?

You can pick up an S54 for around £2800-£3000. Sell the Evo engine for between £2000 to £2500 (78k miles). Depending on the others costs, it's really not that crazy!

Edited by scz4 on Wednesday 25th March 14:02

[Cheburator mk2]

scz4 said:

dan101smith said:

For the cost of the transplant you could get an M3 Evo up to 360bhp, which is CSL power.

I've never seen proof of an N/A S50 plant making that power, lots of claims and bull s### though. If it is possible, certainly isn't without very lumpy cams which results in a horrible driving experience, I've been there before. A standard S54 is always going to be more reliable than a tunned S50 setup.

What sort of parts are you talking about to get that power?

You can pick up an S54 for around £2800-£3000. Sell the Evo engine for between £2000 to £2500 (78k miles). Depending on the others costs, it's really not that crazy!

Edited by scz4 on Wednesday 25th March 14:02

Hmm, i have seen it with the help of lumpy cams, motec, airbox and exhaust... You can pick up an S54 for a lot less - more like £1500... There are only three common parts between the S50 and the S54, although you can say that the S54 is a development of the S50

[dan101smith]

Lumpy cams granted - was talking track cars rather than race cars though. Houlbt's car makes that sort of power IIRC.

£2500 for an S50 seems strong, but what would be the install cost of the S54? Thousands, I'd imagine?

Oh, and the fly-by-wire throttle is rather poo.

[scz4]

dan101smith said:

Oh, and the fly-by-wire throttle is rather poo.

Very true, that's one thing I loved going from my Z4 to M3 Evo.

[Shake&Bake]

If your adament about keeping your e36 (which makes sense considering the amount of money you have spent on it) would you not consider a supercharger for the extra ponies your looking for. Seems an awful lot more user friendly gain that a transplant. I would be worried about electrical issues with a transplant. It was much easier putting the e36 lump into an e30 not so sure about e46 to e36

[Invisible man]

scz4 said:

Phugoid said:

What are the main differences between the Evolution engine and the S54? I know the VANOS on the former is notoriously unreliable but they both produce around the same power and efficiency, is the S54 only a 'minor' development of the S52?

I am not personally sure on the technicalities to be honest. I know they are both still iron blocks, not sure if they are related or not, I'd imagine so. The problem is thee S50 rarely makes the claimed power of315bhp, more like 300bhp. Where as the S54 makes 335-340bhp regularly and since they are stronger, they are a better base for supercharging (This is a long term goal)

Isn't the Evo powered by the S52?

[dan101smith]

S50B32