E39 M5 Engine Swap

[mondeoman]

Been posting about this on M-Torque, and thought I'd try on here as well. Basically my engine is making some 'orrible noises, and not just at idle. After doing the research on line, I suspect the chain guides are fubarred and the Vanos spindle bearings are shot, which would require major heart surgery and significnat cost to repair / replace.

So I looked at swapping out the engine ...

Does anyone know of a specialist in the Burton/Derby area?

I found a 56k mile engine for £2.5k, just need to arrange for it to be fitted - I'd do it myself but I cant afford a week off work at the mo and garage space is limited to the road-side....

My local BM specialist refused to do it as it was "too much trouble" ???

I've looked at the Dr Vanos site and the symptoms I've got don't match - the o rings being replaced are to sort out malfunctioning Vanos - but the engine still pulls like a train, it just rattles like one as well! Getting the cores redone would probably help, but again we're back to the problem of getting someone to fit them as replacing the vanos units needs a special tool, and they are few and far between.

One thing I did notice the other day when I was crawling around underneath was that the exhaust is completely welded - there are no joints in it apart from at the manifold and where it goes through the support towards the rear, the pipes appear to be slightly "oval". Oh, and one of the rattels at start-up is due to the catalyst shields vibrating - any suggestions on a fix for that?

A recurring thought I have is getting hold of an M5 from a breaker and transplanting the running gear onto an E39 touring.... kind of a winter project. Thoughts?

[rassi]

I would have thought that an engine swap would be last resort, after a thorough inspection by a specialist has determined that it is not (economically) repairable? Have you eliminated the water pump, the power steering reservoir and pump, etc?

[mondeoman]

Whne the car is only worth about £5-6k (its got 160k on the clock)and a dented bonnet (?) and any sensible work on the front end is going to be £1-2k minimum, then its a question of scrapping it or fixing it. Cost to replace would be a bit too much for me at the moment, but with the rest of the running gear and internal condition being bloody good, I'd rather put 100k on a "new" engine For £3.5k than buy a complete "new" car for £10k.

I've done everything I can to check all other rotating parts, but all of the noise is from the top end - I initially thought it was the tappets.

I do see where you're coming from though.

[CarbonM5]

Engine swap isnt a bad idea,at 160k the original is past its best and wont make the car attractive come selling time-it could be ongoing trouble trying to fix your old one.

I would want 2k to remove and install!

[rassi]

If the engine still pulls strongly, and it is "just" a question of noise, why not simply continue driving it? Worst case, your current engine dies at some point and then you do the swap.

I am 171.000 km on mine and still quiet and pulling nicely, so sorry to hear about your problems!

[mondeoman]

rassi said:

If the engine still pulls strongly, and it is "just" a question of noise, why not simply continue driving it? Worst case, your current engine dies at some point and then you do the swap.

I am 171.000 km on mine and still quiet and pulling nicely, so sorry to hear about your problems!

Pah - yours is hardly run-in

I had considered doing just that - but I rack up 2500 - 3000 miles a month, so it might not be long before it lets go!

There has been a development. I spoke to the local BMW dealers, adn they want £126 to do a "thorough investigation" to determine "exactly what needs doing".

I was quoted £500 + vat per vanos, and an overall bill of "well over" £3k to replace all four...

It'll be booked in next week - could be money well spent.

Carbon M5 - I figured on about £1-1.5k tops to do the swap, making it a 4k replacemetn and potential another 100k miles before troubles begin again.

If I had to change the car, I don't know what I'd get - the M5 is just to good all-round.

[GTWayne]

^^^ I am looking for an M5 engine and would be interested in either of the ones you mention above, let me know what transpires and good luck with resolving your issue, whatever you decide

[mondeoman]

Righto, after shelling out £126 to BMW to diagnose the problem and tell me exactly what was wrong (after I'd told them what the problem "probably" was) I got ......

"We've no idea, but it is noisy and to find out whats wrong we want £3100 to take the engine out and strip the front end" "Then there's the parts, then there's another £3100 to rebuild and put it back in".

WOW!!! They want £6200 + parts and they don't even know whats wrong with it!

So, now its decision time - engine swap will be £4100 and I get to keep the old engine, can then rebuild it and sell it on. If I do that , do I swap the gearbox at the same time...?

or I buy an old snotter to get around in and do the job myself over the summer, then flog the snotter.

[drivin_me_nuts]

mondeoman said:

Righto, after shelling out £126 to BMW to diagnose the problem and tell me exactly what was wrong (after I'd told them what the problem "probably" was) I got ......

"We've no idea, but it is noisy and to find out whats wrong we want £3100 to take the engine out and strip the front end" "Then there's the parts, then there's another £3100 to rebuild and put it back in".

WOW!!! They want £6200 + parts and they don't even know whats wrong with it!

So, now its decision time - engine swap will be £4100 and I get to keep the old engine, can then rebuild it and sell it on. If I do that , do I swap the gearbox at the same time...?

or I buy an old snotter to get around in and do the job myself over the summer, then flog the snotter.

that is a ludicrous price even by the standards of BMW. For that much you are almost into the territory of another M5. IMO just don't bother with them and find another engine from somewhere else or do it over the summer if/as you've got the time.

[mondeoman]

Finally decided against an engine swap, and opted for open-heart surgery on my driveway instead.

Basically started stripping the front end down, have got to the camshaft drive, found the broken part(s), and they are broken - a 3" chunk of the central chain guide has come away (further details can be found on this thread, with pics.

But I'm a bit stuck - I can't work out how to take the RHS VANOS off to get at the final chain guide bolt, so I'm tempted to just leave it in, replace the broken parts and re-assemble the engine, and hope for the best.

If anyone knows a procedure, I'd be most grateful.

[rassi]

You might want to ask that question on the E39 section of the M5board, especially a member, "Razahyde", who is very skilled with the spanners.

[Great Pretender]

rassi said:

You might want to ask that question on the E39 section of the M5board, especially a member, "Razahyde", who is very skilled with the spanners.

...and superchargers

ETA Something useful:

You may find an engine swap to be a false economy. After all, there is a fair chance the donor engine has seen a hard life and nothing's to say it won't go pop either.

The yanks over on the M5 Board love their E39's and many (as Rassi alluded to) are highly skilled/knowledgeable people.

Moreover, given that M5's over the pond tend to rack up stellar mileages, I'm sure yours isn't an isolated case.

Edited by Great Pretender on Tuesday 1st September 10:17

[FreudeamFahren]

Perhaps this can be of help?
http://drvanos.com/docs/e39m5.pdf

Edited by FreudeamFahren on Wednesday 2nd September 10:01