27k - 135i vs E46 M3
Discussion
Basically a what car thread but it has a slight twist.
My Situation - 25 yrs old - i drive approx 20k miles a year, i currently drive a Civic Type R and can cope with the mpg of this at approx 29/30mpg, however i am looking for something new.
i have narrowed my choice down to a 135i and an E46 M3, having test driven a 135i i am fairly happy that it will satisfy my needs regarding speed mpg etc. However i have noticed i can get a fairly tidy e46 M3 for 22k ish, the extra 5k pays for insurance, petrol and maintenance over the next few years and its an M Car.
Question is would the 5k extra pay for the maintenance etc over the next few years or would it end up costing a fair chunk more and is the extra cost of this worth it due to it being an M3 which is undoubtedly a more special car, but is it that much more special?
Next, is it sensible/practicable to do 20k miles a year in an M3 or am i going to get hit for massive servicing costs etc as i suspect?
My Situation - 25 yrs old - i drive approx 20k miles a year, i currently drive a Civic Type R and can cope with the mpg of this at approx 29/30mpg, however i am looking for something new.
i have narrowed my choice down to a 135i and an E46 M3, having test driven a 135i i am fairly happy that it will satisfy my needs regarding speed mpg etc. However i have noticed i can get a fairly tidy e46 M3 for 22k ish, the extra 5k pays for insurance, petrol and maintenance over the next few years and its an M Car.
Question is would the 5k extra pay for the maintenance etc over the next few years or would it end up costing a fair chunk more and is the extra cost of this worth it due to it being an M3 which is undoubtedly a more special car, but is it that much more special?
Next, is it sensible/practicable to do 20k miles a year in an M3 or am i going to get hit for massive servicing costs etc as i suspect?
For the M3, Inspection I and II services are quite costly and frequent if you do 20k miles/yr.
An Inspection I is about £600 to £800 from main dealer but less than £400 from an independent specialist and an Inspection II can be £800 to £1200 from a main dealer but approx £500 from an independent specialist.
Most M3s have 19" wheels, and 19" tyres aren't cheap.
However, you get really good MPG on an M3 (36 MPG on motorways, 20 MPG in town), not sure what a 135 Coupe gets though.
In terms of specialness, the M3 gets you 338BHP and 8000 RPM, 4 exhaust pipes, wider arches and I think it looks better than the 135. It's also bigger, which maybe worth considering due to the mileage you do.
You can get a tidy E46 M3 for less than 22k.
An Inspection I is about £600 to £800 from main dealer but less than £400 from an independent specialist and an Inspection II can be £800 to £1200 from a main dealer but approx £500 from an independent specialist.
Most M3s have 19" wheels, and 19" tyres aren't cheap.
However, you get really good MPG on an M3 (36 MPG on motorways, 20 MPG in town), not sure what a 135 Coupe gets though.
In terms of specialness, the M3 gets you 338BHP and 8000 RPM, 4 exhaust pipes, wider arches and I think it looks better than the 135. It's also bigger, which maybe worth considering due to the mileage you do.
You can get a tidy E46 M3 for less than 22k.
many thanks for that very useful, part of the reason i am changing is due to build quality, my fn2 civic has rattles all over the place, i assume the bmw quality in an m3 is fine, i agree the m3 is a nicer car, speed is pretty much similar, its mainly running costs and particularly servicing and repairs that are going to make it unattractive as opposed to a nearly new/new 135i with warranty for a few years.
You're welcome 
.
Yep, the build quality in the M3 is very good - in fact I find the doors to be a bit too heavy!
The only issue for me is that the leather in the M3 is a bit too soft so quite a lot of used M3s have worn seat bolsters.
Yep, I agree the servicing costs are quite dear.
.Yep, the build quality in the M3 is very good - in fact I find the doors to be a bit too heavy!
The only issue for me is that the leather in the M3 is a bit too soft so quite a lot of used M3s have worn seat bolsters.
Yep, I agree the servicing costs are quite dear.
Edited by ///M3 on Wednesday 19th August 14:47
The great thing about the Civic's engine is that you can thrash the pants off it all day long and you won't see less than 25mpg. I emptied a whole tank at 140mph (7000rpm in 6th) on the Autobahn and still got just over 200 miles out of the 50 litres. Do not for one minute think that you will be able to drive the 135i in the same way. Once that turbo gets going it will start to guzzle fuel. I don't think the M3 will be any better either.
The reason I say this is that it is very easy to dismiss the difference in cost between 30mpg and 20mpg. I know, I did it myself. Rather than focus on the 10mpg, think of it as 33% worse economy. Your 20,000 miles will cost you an extra £1700 or £2000 with road tax. Then, as someone has just pointed out, tyres and servicing will be much more expensive, as will insurance. Adding it all up, I reckon you're looking at about £3000 extra to run either of the beemers instead of your Type-R. Now without getting too boring, that's £250 per month that you are going to have to add to any extra finance repayments. I'm not for one minute suggesting that you can't afford it, but just make sure you don't underestimate how cheap a Civic Type R is to buy and run.
The reason I say this is that it is very easy to dismiss the difference in cost between 30mpg and 20mpg. I know, I did it myself. Rather than focus on the 10mpg, think of it as 33% worse economy. Your 20,000 miles will cost you an extra £1700 or £2000 with road tax. Then, as someone has just pointed out, tyres and servicing will be much more expensive, as will insurance. Adding it all up, I reckon you're looking at about £3000 extra to run either of the beemers instead of your Type-R. Now without getting too boring, that's £250 per month that you are going to have to add to any extra finance repayments. I'm not for one minute suggesting that you can't afford it, but just make sure you don't underestimate how cheap a Civic Type R is to buy and run.
I appreciate the warning regarding mpg, however as you might have guessed a majority of my mileage is business motorway cruising at 75 ish (dont speed excessively during work time), the car is mainly bought for the weekend thrash or euro road trip to the alps etc , part of the sale reason is that for me the type r is crashy and uncomfortable for long journeys (cant get on with the drivers seat, passenger is oddly fine) and rattles all over the place, while the 135i offers the refinement along with improved performance.
I appreciate the M3 will be stiffer but the comfort would be improved over fn2, yes i agree that 20mpg is not 'only' 10mpg less, but 2/3mpg difference motorway cruising is fine.
I am basically trying to find the ultimate compromise, one that i can use for a motorway muncher for business and then take to wales/switzerland etc and have some fun with.
edit - to previous posters, the idea behind the m3 is that with the 5k+ saved this offsets the maintenance and petrol etc, lets say petrol costs another 1/3rd thats £1000 a year, then will the extra 3k cover the extra maintenance costs that are ontop of the standard 135i. it does appear to be fairly close, probably costing slightly more but then you get a 'better' car
I appreciate the M3 will be stiffer but the comfort would be improved over fn2, yes i agree that 20mpg is not 'only' 10mpg less, but 2/3mpg difference motorway cruising is fine.
I am basically trying to find the ultimate compromise, one that i can use for a motorway muncher for business and then take to wales/switzerland etc and have some fun with.
edit - to previous posters, the idea behind the m3 is that with the 5k+ saved this offsets the maintenance and petrol etc, lets say petrol costs another 1/3rd thats £1000 a year, then will the extra 3k cover the extra maintenance costs that are ontop of the standard 135i. it does appear to be fairly close, probably costing slightly more but then you get a 'better' car
Edited by Juffled on Wednesday 19th August 16:06
Hey, not sure how economical the M3 will be with those sorts of miles. The following figures are what I have:
MPG: 22-25
Range per tank: around 300, realistically less
Petrol price: £1.10 (63 litre tank)
If you were to equate those to 20k miles pa, that roughly equals £4500 a year on petrol. You can average more on motorways, but having some fun will kill the economy. I get through rear tyres every 10,000 miles or so, at a cost of around £250 each. Servicing will be variable, but if you get unlucky could be around £1k for insp2 plus some other bits and bobs. At 25, I pay £1100 on insurance. Also forgot to mention £870 on warranty. In theory, an unlucky year for you could end up costing more than £8000, whilst an average will still be over £6000.
If your company is paying for insurance or petrol, then that would be fine.
MPG: 22-25
Range per tank: around 300, realistically less
Petrol price: £1.10 (63 litre tank)
If you were to equate those to 20k miles pa, that roughly equals £4500 a year on petrol. You can average more on motorways, but having some fun will kill the economy. I get through rear tyres every 10,000 miles or so, at a cost of around £250 each. Servicing will be variable, but if you get unlucky could be around £1k for insp2 plus some other bits and bobs. At 25, I pay £1100 on insurance. Also forgot to mention £870 on warranty. In theory, an unlucky year for you could end up costing more than £8000, whilst an average will still be over £6000.
If your company is paying for insurance or petrol, then that would be fine.
Not wanting to be flamed here, but have you thought of the 123d coupe if you're doing that many miles. I used to have the 3 door M Sport and it's excellent all rounder, superchips even do a 250bhp remap now which is handset based so you can remove it when required. Don't let the diesel thing put you off, it's nothing like a traditional diesel, the twin turbos give a lot of shove, revs hard to 5000rpm from just 1200rpm, wider useable power compared to my M3 which is say 4500rpm to 7500rpm.
I test drove the 135i and it was very quick, quicker than the E46 M3, awesome brakes, handles well, but ultimately a little dull, lacks the character and noise of the M3. I ended up buying a E36 M3 Evo for fun and the 123d for the day to day stuff.
Get yourself a 123d for £18k and spend £10k on something fun.
I test drove the 135i and it was very quick, quicker than the E46 M3, awesome brakes, handles well, but ultimately a little dull, lacks the character and noise of the M3. I ended up buying a E36 M3 Evo for fun and the 123d for the day to day stuff.
Get yourself a 123d for £18k and spend £10k on something fun.
Edited by scz4 on Wednesday 19th August 16:11
Fair enough. If you've had a go and the difference is as small as 3mpg then the decision is a lot simpler.
Just coming back to your original post, I reckon a 135i is more special than an M3. Ask yourself how many 135is you have seen on the road and compare that to the number of M3s. The M3 has an engine to die for and does look the business, but if I had the choice (and next year I probably will) I'd go for the 135i. It harks back to the days of the original M3 when cars were a sensible size and weight....but that's another story altogether.
Just coming back to your original post, I reckon a 135i is more special than an M3. Ask yourself how many 135is you have seen on the road and compare that to the number of M3s. The M3 has an engine to die for and does look the business, but if I had the choice (and next year I probably will) I'd go for the 135i. It harks back to the days of the original M3 when cars were a sensible size and weight....but that's another story altogether.
scz4 said:
Not wanting to be flamed here, but have you thought of the 123d coupe if you're doing that many miles. ......
have driven it and didnt like it (123d), 20k miles paid by the company pretty much, i did look at getting 2 cars a while ago but that was in different circumstances with less funds might be more realistic now,Edited by scz4 on Wednesday 19th August 16:11
just done some sums thanks to an earlier poster, for someone doing circa 20k miles a year a 135i is approx £5500 a year to run and an M3 appears to be about £8500, this takes into account, a standard service and minor parts, tax, fuel, tyres and insurance for a 25yr old.
which is a large difference and probably not justifiable, many thanks to those who have provided some info! and commiserations to the poster whose petrol was considerably more expensive than 101p like it is here in notts
which is a large difference and probably not justifiable, many thanks to those who have provided some info! and commiserations to the poster whose petrol was considerably more expensive than 101p like it is here in notts
One final boring comment from me. Have you made any subtle enquiries with your boss as to how he might feel paying £5000/year in superunleaded rather than about £2000-worth of diesel? Maybe you work for a big company or one that is doing so well they aren't bothered, but if an employee came to me and said they had chosen a car that was going to cost the company circa £10,000 more over 3 years than a normal motor I wouldn't be too impressed. Just a thought.
its quite a standard way of doing it, previous employer WS Atkins (large engineering consultancy (worldwide 16k staff) used it) as well as my current employer and the university of nottingham (who pay the girlfriend in the 40p/25p way explained in a sec), you get your car allowance + a set rate per mile (something like 11p per mile)... alternatively no car allowance and a set rate per mile (starting at 40p per mile for the first 10k then 25p per mile for the next 18k).
edit - i know for atkins it worked out financially better to get the company car but then you got lumbered with a not so fun small engined heavy kerb weighted hatchback. depends very much on what your priorities were.
edit - i know for atkins it worked out financially better to get the company car but then you got lumbered with a not so fun small engined heavy kerb weighted hatchback. depends very much on what your priorities were.
Edited by Juffled on Wednesday 19th August 17:39
I have just not long sold my E46 M3 it was a latish (54reg) car with FBMWSH 37k when i bought it and was a stunning example
BUT dont be fooled by just doing figures on paper they are a VERY expensive car to own, i think i spent roughly £3000 on mine in repairs between Oct 08 when i purchased it, and Aug 09 when i eventually and reluctantly gave it up before it bankrupted me, as at the time of selling it required front lower arms and bushes at both sides, front pads and some other bits and pieces, even rectifying this on your own drive using parts from Euro car parts would cost you in the region of £5-600 at least, and this is the M car downfall, the replacement part prices can be ridiculous
The flip side, MPG for a 3.2 litre engine was faultless, we regularly managed 20-24mpg in town and 30mpg on a run was easy, use the car properly and ypu can see this reduced to mid teens, and in fairness i cannot see the 135i being much, if any, better
If i was in your situation i personally would opt for the 135i, as it will ultimately be more cost effective for the miles you do, the servicing and cost of parts alone will be a substantial saving over the M3, and as mentioned before they are more exclusive
Add in am Evolve/DMS remap and 350+ BHP and E92 M3 acceleration capabilities becomes a very cost effective reality
BUT dont be fooled by just doing figures on paper they are a VERY expensive car to own, i think i spent roughly £3000 on mine in repairs between Oct 08 when i purchased it, and Aug 09 when i eventually and reluctantly gave it up before it bankrupted me, as at the time of selling it required front lower arms and bushes at both sides, front pads and some other bits and pieces, even rectifying this on your own drive using parts from Euro car parts would cost you in the region of £5-600 at least, and this is the M car downfall, the replacement part prices can be ridiculous
The flip side, MPG for a 3.2 litre engine was faultless, we regularly managed 20-24mpg in town and 30mpg on a run was easy, use the car properly and ypu can see this reduced to mid teens, and in fairness i cannot see the 135i being much, if any, better
If i was in your situation i personally would opt for the 135i, as it will ultimately be more cost effective for the miles you do, the servicing and cost of parts alone will be a substantial saving over the M3, and as mentioned before they are more exclusive
Add in am Evolve/DMS remap and 350+ BHP and E92 M3 acceleration capabilities becomes a very cost effective reality
I had and E46 M3 and swapped it for a 335i, had it tuned to 365bhp and it was a lot quicker than the M3.
Ultimately though it is dull, you just can't compare the two really, both completely different cars designed to do a different job.
I love the 1 series and our 120d M-Sport was the best all round car we have owned, like a little go kart, but the coupe feels more like the 3 series and not as nimble as the 3/5 door hatch, and because of that it looses some of its appeal and made the 335i the ultimate choice.
Don't get me wrong, I love the 3.0 twin turbo, it is a belter, but you can't compare it with an M3.
I ended up selling my £40k 335i for £30k after 9 months, I bought a 3 year old A6 3.2 for racking up the miles in comfort and a 60k mile SMG M3 for having fun in, and still ended up with money in my pocket.
Plus a year on and I still love them both, if I had just bought the M3 after 30k miles I would be bored and would have sold it by now.
You can pick up a nice M3 for £12k now.
You can pick up a nice 520d for £12k now.
Food for thought??
Ultimately though it is dull, you just can't compare the two really, both completely different cars designed to do a different job.
I love the 1 series and our 120d M-Sport was the best all round car we have owned, like a little go kart, but the coupe feels more like the 3 series and not as nimble as the 3/5 door hatch, and because of that it looses some of its appeal and made the 335i the ultimate choice.
Don't get me wrong, I love the 3.0 twin turbo, it is a belter, but you can't compare it with an M3.
I ended up selling my £40k 335i for £30k after 9 months, I bought a 3 year old A6 3.2 for racking up the miles in comfort and a 60k mile SMG M3 for having fun in, and still ended up with money in my pocket.
Plus a year on and I still love them both, if I had just bought the M3 after 30k miles I would be bored and would have sold it by now.
You can pick up a nice M3 for £12k now.
You can pick up a nice 520d for £12k now.
Food for thought??
2x the insurance (bearing in mind i am 25 and its not cheap for an m3, approx 1k), 2 x times tax still is a fair chunk of money, although i can get something like an audi 80 for racking up the miles which goes on for ever and ever and is dead comfy, i am leaning towards this, an m3 is afterall an m3 and no matter how good the 135i/335i are its not quite the same, the whole thing is just an event....and where an earth can you get a good m3 for 12k or are we talking e36?
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