The decline of the //M

[skeeterm5]

I was reflecting on the next M5 with its twin turbo V8 and it got me thinking that we have reached the peak of the M car right now and the decline has started. Reasons for this thinking;

- M division say never to 4 wheel drive cars - then the x5m/x6m arrive
- the top of the range M5 looses v10 because of emissions
- I think the next M3 is going back to a straight 6 with twin turbo - feels like a warmed 335
- continued badge engineering of lesser cars with M style body kits and bits and pieces

and so on.....

Get it while you can I think.

S

[RDMcG]

I agree with the OP on this. M cars are supposed to have separate engines and separate development. I have a V10 M6 and I will hang on to it,not for its value,evidently, but because its an end point for the M cars. I have had a few of them and will not buy a tuned version of the standard production car just because it has an M badge.

[-Z-]

I agree, a massive part of the ///M appeal is the bespoke engines.

As good as a 335 is is still doesn't have a supercar level V8. A twin turbo I6 just isn't the same.

[aeropilot]

In my view the only 'real' M cars were those that were built as homologation specials which is after all, how the M division came into being.
So, that's M1, M635CSi, E30 M3 and that's about it, with a possibility of the M6 because of it's moderate success in the GT races of recent years.

Every other 'M' car is a just a sell out, just as Ford sold out and diluted the RS range over the years, and any number of other manufacturers have done a similar thing too.

Such a pity, but commercially understandable I guess.

[Lost soul]

-Z- said:

I agree, a massive part of the ///M appeal is the bespoke engines.

As good as a 335 is is still doesn't have a supercar level V8. A twin turbo I6 just isn't the same.

Hold on a sec , i remember on here a lot of people complaining at launch time that the new M3 had a V8 and not kept the i6 , no pleasing some people is there

[benny.c]

aeropilot said:

In my view the only 'real' M cars were those that were built as homologation specials which is after all, how the M division came into being.
So, that's M1, M635CSi, E30 M3 and that's about it, with a possibility of the M6 because of it's moderate success in the GT races of recent years.

Every other 'M' car is a just a sell out, just as Ford sold out and diluted the RS range over the years, and any number of other manufacturers have done a similar thing too.

Such a pity, but commercially understandable I guess.

I agree, they all appear to be becoming quick, heavy tourers. Have a read of this thread -

http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...

It seems that having bluetooth and a USB port is becoming essential in an M car. Instead of an M3 CSL and Z4M we get an X5M and X6M. It sells cars but it's a shame.

Edited by benny.c on Saturday 22 August 21:28

[Spokey]

Sadly, I have to agree with this.

[Lost soul]

benny.c said:

It seems that having bluetooth and a USB port is becoming essential in an M car. Instead of an M3 CSL and Z4M we get an X5M and X6M. It sells cars but it's a shame.

What is wrong with wanting bluetooth and a usb port in a car , it does not make the car less attrative ,, adds ounces not pounds and adds to the ease of ownership , insteas of having a six disk multichanger you have a ipod with more music than you could wish for and with bluetooth you get a built in hands free sytem that works perfectly , what is so wrong with that ???

[DjSki]

Yep, to me M cars should be high revving and normally aspirated, ie proper performance engines....it does seem like these are going to die.....

[Animal]

All fair points, but remember: the people at BMW are the same ones who designed and built the cars a lot of us covet (I saw a stunning red E30 M3 earlier today ).

Give them a chance to see what they come up with next. It's up to us to have high expectations of M cars and it's up to BMW to fulfill them...

Best,

Animal

[-Z-]

Lost soul said:

-Z- said:

I agree, a massive part of the ///M appeal is the bespoke engines.

As good as a 335 is is still doesn't have a supercar level V8. A twin turbo I6 just isn't the same.

Hold on a sec , i remember on here a lot of people complaining at launch time that the new M3 had a V8 and not kept the i6 , no pleasing some people is there

Er that wasn't my point? The e36/46 I6 was still substantially bespoke though, being iron based and strong enough to both rev high and have a high specific output unlike the alloy 330 I6.

The point of ///M (engine wise ) is to deliver a different experience to other cars in the range, via high revs and a screaming induction note. The next Gen range will therefore have 2 cars with TT I6's. I can't see a there being a massive difference between them.

Take the next M5's TT V8 for example, described by evo as being anodyne and sounding like a 4 cyl!

[benny.c]

Lost soul said:

What is wrong with wanting bluetooth and a usb port in a car , it does not make the car less attrative ,, adds ounces not pounds and adds to the ease of ownership , insteas of having a six disk multichanger you have a ipod with more music than you could wish for and with bluetooth you get a built in hands free sytem that works perfectly , what is so wrong with that ???

Nothing wrong with the usb and bluetooth but add them to heated memory seats, auto wipers, auto lights, etc and you've got a car that weights more than my Mustang. All those gadgets are great in a GT car but I'd just like to see BMW make an M car that got a little back to basics. Something along the lines of the M3 CSL would be a start.

I can see why BMW make the M3 as they do but why not have it as a non-M, and then have a balls out stripped M version along the lines of a GT3 RS?

It'd be nice if M stood for "Motorsport" again, not "mmmm, this is comfy on the motorway and it connects to my phone"

Edited by benny.c on Saturday 22 August 22:51

[gizlaroc]

I think we need to see what arrives, I still prefer the E46 SMG over the V8 DCT, as my M3 is a second car and the E46 feels more raw. But I know I will end up in a V8 and probably change my mind once I have lived with it for a while.
And I hate the thought of a turbo M car, I found my flit with a 335i a little dull, but I'm sure the M division will make it feel special.

Unfortunately I think it is too late to go back to lightweight I6 NA cars.

I bet if BMW brought out an M1 CSL with the S54 engine in it, it would sell like hotcakes, I would be straight in there with one. Not everyone wants a more comfy, bigger, heavier car with the biggest engine they can squeeze in.

Alpina cover the area that the M division seem to be moving into, but we are all probably guessing incorrectly what they have in mind.

[-Z-]

benny.c said:

Lost soul said:

What is wrong with wanting bluetooth and a usb port in a car , it does not make the car less attrative ,, adds ounces not pounds and adds to the ease of ownership , insteas of having a six disk multichanger you have a ipod with more music than you could wish for and with bluetooth you get a built in hands free sytem that works perfectly , what is so wrong with that ???

Nothing wrong with the usb and bluetooth but add them to heated memory seats, auto wipers, auto lights, etc and you've got a car that weights more than my Mustang. All those gadgets are great in a GT car but I'd just like to see BMW make an M car that got a little back to basics. Something along the lines of the M3 CSL would be a start.

I can see why BMW make the M3, M5 etc as they do but why not have those models as non-M, and then have a balls out stripped M version along the lines of a GT3?

It'd be nice if M stood for "Motorsport" again, not "mmmm, this is comfy on the motorway and it connects to my phone"

Edited by benny.c on Saturday 22 August 22:49

Barring the M1, the first ever M cars were a luxury GT (M635) and luxury 4 door family cars ( M535 and then E28 M5).

So what do you mean by "motorsport"? E30 M3? That was very well equipped at the time, and also don't forget ///M wasted no time bringing out a floppy convertible version.

[benny.c]

Yeah, true. I think I just get all misty eyed about pretty looking, old BMW's

Still think it's a crying shame that there's no M3 CSL and we get an X6 M instead

[-Z-]

benny.c said:

Yeah, true. I think I just get all misty eyed about pretty looking, old BMW's

Still think it's a crying shame that there's no M3 CSL and we get an X6 M instead

Yeah I concur, but they said there'd never be a Z4M and look what turned up. So hopefully, fingers crossed, they'll use the money they'll save from pulling out of F1 to pull a CSl out of the bag!

[mat205125]

It's difficult to pinpoint the exact point that M entered the slippery slope. Whilst i'm sure that the X models are awesomely competent, i still think they should never have been born to start with. No getting away from the fact that there are more orange skinned school run mums and footballers out to spend money than drivers wanting a csl. :-(

[guyvert1]

Guys, its called evolution. The new generation of //m owners will not give a monkeys about the old ones, most of the lovers of these old heroes are cracking on a bit themselves..

Buyers these days seem to want it all for nothing, better economy, better emissions, better handling, more power.. And thats what they get.. But the older you get them more you harp on for the good old days.. Imagine how 'computerised' cars will be in 25yrs time, bet you won't be moaning about the 'old M5tt' then!..

You don't have to buy the latest/greatest, just buy what feels right.

[squeezebm]

guyvert1 said:

Guys, its called evolution. The new generation of //m owners will not give a monkeys about the old ones, most of the lovers of these old heroes are cracking on a bit themselves..

Buyers these days seem to want it all for nothing, better economy, better emissions, better handling, more power.. And thats what they get.. But the older you get them more you harp on for the good old days.. Imagine how 'computerised' cars will be in 25yrs time, bet you won't be moaning about the 'old M5tt' then!..

You don't have to buy the latest/greatest, just buy what feels right.

+1 FFS the CSL is dead get over it and move on !!

[Frik]

Well indeed. They're a company so they need to sell cars to keep going. Fulfilling the ideology of a small group of enthusiasts tends to be less financially sensible.