how feasible to get my s54 to a N/A 400bhp?

[Beedub]

ok ok i understand the s54 is in a very high state of tune in its stock form, but if i wanted 400bhp from this engine without using a supercharger, where would i need to start? or is this just a no go?

[MattOz]

I'd say it's a no go. You'd spend thousands on cams, pistons, flowed this and that, different engine management etc, but fundamentally 400bhp from an N/A S54 is unlikely to happen.

Matt

[Beedub]

matt just purely out of intrest what makes this so unfeasible? is it just a case of its pretty much at its limit now??

[MC99]

I think Thorney motorsport claim to squeeze circa 400bhp out of a CSL unit; with crazy cams (3 days of fitting alone) and 10k+ to do it..I've no idea what the demands are for keeping it in tune and running well when it's that highly stressed.

edited for link http://www.thorneymotorsport.co.uk/tuning/E46_M3_C...

Edited by MC99 on Tuesday 1st September 18:16

[hamzamian]

have to disagree. Not only is it possible, I know its been done. Speak to Technosport, they run a race car with a highly tuned S54 engine that is making over 400...

In fact, just managed to find the link again :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qgD6K_4kslc

450BHP and still NA.

From what I remember though it needed a huge amount of work, would be prohibitively expensive for most I imagine.

[Frik]

Eminently possible, it's not that much of a gain after all.

Why would you want to though? I suspect that you'd lose a lot of the better qualities of the engine in your search for such a high peak.

[ga41]

I'd love a 400hp N/A S54, in fact that would probably be the ideal engine for my Z4 M Coupe but i wonder how such a stressed engine would affect the car's daily driving characteristics... Still, if i could get it done for say 5k i'd probably do it.

[kds keltec]

I know its not the topic , but why would you not go for the supercharger route ???
There has been a few kits tried and test now from 450 bhp which was around £5000 to 550 bhp around £10000 and kits in between .

I have contact simspons myself this week as really wanted to fit the 550bhp kit to my car for along time now , just trying to decide if to do just that or sell my M3 (which i have spent way too much money on) and go for E60 M5 .

My M3 is a demo car for so does not get used much , when i do use it have always been left with the feeling it needs more power thou .

Dont have a family so M5 is a big car for me alone , so supercharger route is winning for me at the moment .

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3G9MEADvGqE

[hamzamian]

ga41 said:

I'd love a 400hp N/A S54, in fact that would probably be the ideal engine for my Z4 M Coupe but i wonder how such a stressed engine would affect the car's daily driving characteristics... Still, if i could get it done for say 5k i'd probably do it.

IIRC I think the work Technosport did would come in closer to 20k if you had to pay labour... it includes a complete rebuild of the engine using different internals and a custom map developed by some people who used to work at ///M division

[Daz4m]

kds keltec said:

I know its not the topic , but why would you not go for the supercharger route ???
There has been a few kits tried and test now from 450 bhp which was around £5000 to 550 bhp around £10000 and kits in between .

I have contact simspons myself this week as really wanted to fit the 550bhp kit to my car for along time now , just trying to decide if to do just that or sell my M3 (which i have spent way too much money on) and go for E60 M5 .

My M3 is a demo car for so does not get used much , when i do use it have always been left with the feeling it needs more power thou .

Dont have a family so M5 is a big car for me alone , so supercharger route is winning for me at the moment .

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3G9MEADvGqE

For me a supercharger would take away some of the sparkle of the engine. The noise being a large factor.

If I wanted more power I would buy something in the next league. The 911, R8, GTR etc.

[mat205125]

hamzamian said:

ga41 said:

I'd love a 400hp N/A S54, in fact that would probably be the ideal engine for my Z4 M Coupe but i wonder how such a stressed engine would affect the car's daily driving characteristics... Still, if i could get it done for say 5k i'd probably do it.

IIRC I think the work Technosport did would come in closer to 20k if you had to pay labour... it includes a complete rebuild of the engine using different internals and a custom map developed by some people who used to work at ///M division

That isn't actually that bad a price for a fully built and tested race engine that is running 140bhp per litre. That's current BTCC spec per litre, and very respectable.

[Beedub]

kds keltec said:

I know its not the topic , but why would you not go for the supercharger route ???
There has been a few kits tried and test now from 450 bhp which was around £5000 to 550 bhp around £10000 and kits in between .

I have contact simspons myself this week as really wanted to fit the 550bhp kit to my car for along time now , just trying to decide if to do just that or sell my M3 (which i have spent way too much money on) and go for E60 M5 .

My M3 is a demo car for so does not get used much , when i do use it have always been left with the feeling it needs more power thou .

Dont have a family so M5 is a big car for me alone , so supercharger route is winning for me at the moment .

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3G9MEADvGqE

If i could get 380plus n/A i would much rather go this route than wack a heavy supercharger and its plumbing on one side of my nice balanced s54, and i really agree the character of this engine will be lost.

[kds keltec]

Beedub said:

kds keltec said:

I know its not the topic , but why would you not go for the supercharger route ???
There has been a few kits tried and test now from 450 bhp which was around £5000 to 550 bhp around £10000 and kits in between .

I have contact simspons myself this week as really wanted to fit the 550bhp kit to my car for along time now , just trying to decide if to do just that or sell my M3 (which i have spent way too much money on) and go for E60 M5 .

My M3 is a demo car for so does not get used much , when i do use it have always been left with the feeling it needs more power thou .

Dont have a family so M5 is a big car for me alone , so supercharger route is winning for me at the moment .

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3G9MEADvGqE

If i could get 380plus n/A i would much rather go this route than wack a heavy supercharger and its plumbing on one side of my nice balanced s54, and i really agree the character of this engine will be lost.

I can see where you are coming from , did wonder and still do why so little amount of people have gone the supercharger route when you look at the power gain against price ,i may go for the new car route still .



Used to drive high bhp turbo cars and a V8 TVR before the M3 , the M3 is the complete opposite to the Tvr and still miss the grunt now and again

[ga41]

Beedub said:

kds keltec said:

I know its not the topic , but why would you not go for the supercharger route ???
There has been a few kits tried and test now from 450 bhp which was around £5000 to 550 bhp around £10000 and kits in between .

I have contact simspons myself this week as really wanted to fit the 550bhp kit to my car for along time now , just trying to decide if to do just that or sell my M3 (which i have spent way too much money on) and go for E60 M5 .

My M3 is a demo car for so does not get used much , when i do use it have always been left with the feeling it needs more power thou .

Dont have a family so M5 is a big car for me alone , so supercharger route is winning for me at the moment .

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3G9MEADvGqE

If i could get 380plus n/A i would much rather go this route than wack a heavy supercharger and its plumbing on one side of my nice balanced s54, and i really agree the character of this engine will be lost.

Agreed. The S54 is a high rev screamer. Slapping a supercharger on will just turn it into a torquey monster of an engine for sure but it will also take away a lot of its character. Of course i have yet to try one.

[RatBoy M3CS]

ga41 said:

If i could get 380plus n/A i would much rather go this route than wack a heavy supercharger and its plumbing on one side of my nice balanced s54, and i really agree the character of this engine will be lost.

I wrestled with the idea of the supercharger route.. and ended up going for Thorneys stage 4.. which resulted in 378bhp @ 22C in the dyno on the day...

There is more than a few differences of opinion by some of the dyno testers, slating each others results.. but the proof of the pudding is to test it against a stock one on the racetrack, i tracked mine before and after to get reference times, and I can pull away from a stock 360bhp CSL round silverstone carrying 100kg more.. not a huge amount, granted, but 2 or 3 car lengths per straight.. so i would say the figure is round or thereabouts correct.. on a cold day.. which you dont know how much im waiting to try it out..! maybe 385-390..

Sure.. its expensive , cant hide that fact.. but so far as i can figure out the blown ones with bigger injectors yield about 15mpg.. or 5mpg on the track.. mine still does 23-24 on the road and 10-11 on the track.. its not about the fuel tho'.. its about fun.. depends how much you like filling it up.. for me.. N/A all the way..!

Sure you can get over 400bhp from one.. with race cams, and changing the rods and bolts to rev it a bit harder.. but going much over 285 degree cams on the road is a poor idea for a road engine, it would never go thro' an MOT emissions test to start with due to the valve overlap, as well as being rough as rough thing in low rpm, and probably tick over at 3000rpm which would test your patience in the traffic..!

Edited by RatBoy M3CS on Saturday 5th September 09:13

[Beedub]

ratboy i dont suppose you got any pics of your engine bay please mate?

[RatBoy M3CS]

No I dont at present... but at a glance you wouldn't know its any different to a stock engine, the ex-manifold you cant see .. its just the internals that are different.. The Millteck tailpipes give a little clue tho'...!

It does pull harder all the way up.. you loose the Vanos kick @4K.. as it moves to nearer 5K rpm ..& from 5.5-8K rpm its a lot stronger.. but +40hp isn't night and day different, its 11% better.. in power to weight terms its about the same as taking 100KG off the car.. as the E46M3 is about 4.0kg/bhp

Next step for me is most likely doing the CSL cup next season @ 1275kg which will have the feel of adding another 100bhp..

Edited by RatBoy M3CS on Sunday 6th September 09:13

[Windymiller]

How much is the stage mate, and what does it consist of? Couldn't find anything on TMS website.

[C8LNJ]

Surely it would be a better exercise to upgrade to a E92 V8 if you want 400bhp+ instead of spending around 10k or whatevers being banded about to modify the E46 ?

Or am I just being silly now??

[ga41]

C8LNJ said:

Surely it would be a better exercise to upgrade to a E92 V8 if you want 400bhp+ instead of spending around 10k or whatevers being banded about to modify the E46 ?

Or am I just being silly now??

I would think upgrading to the S65 would cost considerably more than 10k! The engine might cost that much alone although i have found someone selling one for about 5 and a half thousand pounds from the US. (Not that i'm looking to swap engines mind you.. )