Cups as winter tyres on E92 M3's

[foresterlad]

I am interested in experiences of Michelin Cups as against PS2's during the winter. My own experience, having replaced PS2's which were OE, with cups is not great. Despite talking to Michelin and getting re-assurance about wet weather performance the handling feels distinctly skittish on wet roads. I know BMW fitted Cups as an OE option and apart from the wear rate are well regarded by fellow owners. However I am thinking of switching to Continental,as fitted to the latest edition cars to be on the safeside

[MC99]

have been running cups (on 18s) from getting my E92 M3 last Nov. Must admit that some of the times I spent around xmas and new year around Yorkshire the car did feel "edgy" (it was not much above zero). I didn't find them unusable, just that you had to judge more carefully, when and how much power you could apply quickly. They aren't built for the cold weather and it does show.

[Rags]

If its anyone other than you driving the car avoid cups.

IMO avoid cups unless a pure weekend car.

[phatgixer]

Whoa up there scare monsters!!!

Here be the facts. 'Proper cups' like those fitted to CSL and aftermarket to GT3s etc are a real handful in standing water and can reduce a great car to a 50 mph dangerous liability on rutted motorwys.

BUT! The cups fitted OE to E92 M3s are Cup+. Watered down cups. Only look like cups. Not real ones. Are really just ordinary tyres with pretty frock on and wider grooves than proper cups. Perfectly good for winter, but why bother? Get the PS2s. Deeper tread, almost as good grip and £50 per set less. Michelin tyres only things to fit in any event.

DO NOT UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES SPOIL YOUR M3 WITH UTTERLY RUBBISH CONTIs.....

Edited by phatgixer on Tuesday 24th November 16:33

[Rags]

phatgixer said:

Whoa up there scare monsters!!!

Here be the facts. 'Proper cups' like those fitted to CSL and aftermarket to GT3s etc are a real handful in standing water and can reduce a great car to a 50 mph dangerous liability on rutted motorwys.

BUT! The cups fitted OE to E92 M3s are Cup+. Watered down cups. Only look like cups. Not real ones. Are really just ordinary tyres with pretty frock on and wider grooves than proper cups. Perfectly good for winter, but why bother? Get the PS2s. Deeper tread, almost as good grip and £50 per set less. Michelin tyres only things to fit in any event.

DO NOT UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES SPOIL YOUR M3 WITH UTTERLY RUBBISH CONTIs.....

Edited by phatgixer on Tuesday 24th November 16:33

Fair points!

[tomvcarter]

i agree that the continentals are poor, i ran cups for a month or so, but they were too skittish to use in the rain i though, so returned to the PS2's which are great. Apart from in snow... even a light film on the road an the car becomes a death trap... i got caught in 2 blizzards in a week last jan and hit two walls... expensive

[foresterlad]

Thanks for the feedback to my post. I agree the Cup tyres fitted to the CSL were significantly different and remember signing a disclaimer regarding their limitations on collecting my car from the dealership. Also I am not a great fan of conti's, although EVO magazine suggested they allowed greater adjustability (what ever that means) compared with Michelin. On balance I will probably go back to PS2's once the current rubber is down to 3mm. which won't take very long.

[J-P]

I had cups - found them fine but you need to be sensible in the wet and they hate standing water.

I bought the Conti's when they needed replacing (Sport Contact 3's which are the new OE tyre) which I'm told are only out about 6 months which I think are fine too and a much better all round tyre. Ride comfort is slightly worse but not enough to be really bothered about.

Not sure how they've got such a poor showing on here as I didn't think they'd been out long enough for anybody to have really had a great opportunity to live with and test them.

[phatgixer]

J-P said:

I had cups - found them fine but you need to be sensible in the wet and they hate standing water.

I bought the Conti's when they needed replacing (Sport Contact 3's which are the new OE tyre) which I'm told are only out about 6 months which I think are fine too and a much better all round tyre. Ride comfort is slightly worse but not enough to be really bothered about.

Not sure how they've got such a poor showing on here as I didn't think they'd been out long enough for anybody to have really had a great opportunity to live with and test them.

My experience of Contis are on the Sport Contact 2 and they are dire.

3 blowouts on one car (SL55 wih TuV approved Brabus 20" wheels) in 5k miles, skittish handling and bad ride quality. 18" Michelins were miles better on the car... Thankfully the ones that didn't blowout didn't last too long. Wet grip was only redeeming feature as it was just about adequate.

On my (then new) 2001 E46 M3 (18" wheels) they were truly awful. TC light permanently flashing. Swapped for PZeros when they wore out and the car was totally transformed. Amazing what people put up with. Life is too short to endure the sort of crap Conti squeeze out. People assume it is a good product as it is German. Do not be taken in.

If the Sport contact 3 is ground up new, then you may be OK, but I am not best disposed to deal with them as they (and their UK importer) ignored 4 letters from me remonstrating about the Mercedes / Brabus debacle. Fookin dangerous...

PS2 all the way for me. You can not go wrong with Michelin

Edited by phatgixer on Tuesday 24th November 22:42

[J-P]

phatgixer said:

J-P said:

I had cups - found them fine but you need to be sensible in the wet and they hate standing water.

I bought the Conti's when they needed replacing (Sport Contact 3's which are the new OE tyre) which I'm told are only out about 6 months which I think are fine too and a much better all round tyre. Ride comfort is slightly worse but not enough to be really bothered about.

Not sure how they've got such a poor showing on here as I didn't think they'd been out long enough for anybody to have really had a great opportunity to live with and test them.

My experience of Contis are on the Sport Contact 2 and they are dire.

3 blowouts on one car (SL55 wih TuV approved Brabus 20" wheels) in 5k miles, skittish handling and bad ride quality. 18" Michelins were miles better on the car... Thankfully the ones that didn't blowout didn't last too long. Wet grip was only redeeming feature as it was just about adequate.

On my (then new) 2001 E46 M3 (18" wheels) they were truly awful. TC light permanently flashing. Swapped for PZeros when they wore out and the car was totally transformed. Amazing what people put up with. Life is too short to endure the sort of crap Conti squeeze out. People assume it is a good product as it is German. Do not be taken in.

If the Sport contact 3 is ground up new, then you may be OK, but I am not best disposed to deal with them as they (and their UK importer) ignored 4 letters from me remonstrating about the Mercedes / Brabus debacle. Fookin dangerous...

PS2 all the way for me. You can not go wrong with Michelin

Edited by phatgixer on Tuesday 24th November 22:42

Sounds like a total nightmare! Agree that Michelin tyres are generally very good. If I suffer any of the issues that you described with the new Contis I'll be sure to mention it here!

[rassi]

IMHO using Cups as "winter tyres" is quite frankly a contradiction in terms! At the very least normal performance tyres such as PS2s or proper wintertyres (e.g. Dunlop Wintersport 3D, Michelin Alpin, etc) but having track biased tyres on a powerful RWD car is just plain nuts.

A reminder of what can happen is provided here: http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...

[JMRS4]

J-P said:

I had cups - found them fine but you need to be sensible in the wet and they hate standing water.

I bought the Conti's when they needed replacing (Sport Contact 3's which are the new OE tyre) which I'm told are only out about 6 months which I think are fine too and a much better all round tyre. Ride comfort is slightly worse but not enough to be really bothered about.

Not sure how they've got such a poor showing on here as I didn't think they'd been out long enough for anybody to have really had a great opportunity to live with and test them.

These crap tyres came on my new M3 M-DCT which I collect next week, I refused the car with them on, guys in the states have had some real issues with them, I ordered PS2's and the car came with these conti3's, they are being changed too PS2's or the car stays where it is........... in there storage area.

[gareth h]

I've just done 20k miles on the m3 specific conti sports (E46). Certainly didn't have any of the traction issues described.
The earlier comparison between contis on 20" rims and PS2 on 18" . I expect thay may feel a little different!
Saying that the wear rate on PS2 is incredible, they are worth the extra cost for that alone.

[J-P]

JMRS4 said:

J-P said:

I had cups - found them fine but you need to be sensible in the wet and they hate standing water.

I bought the Conti's when they needed replacing (Sport Contact 3's which are the new OE tyre) which I'm told are only out about 6 months which I think are fine too and a much better all round tyre. Ride comfort is slightly worse but not enough to be really bothered about.

Not sure how they've got such a poor showing on here as I didn't think they'd been out long enough for anybody to have really had a great opportunity to live with and test them.

These crap tyres came on my new M3 M-DCT which I collect next week, I refused the car with them on, guys in the states have had some real issues with them, I ordered PS2's and the car came with these conti3's, they are being changed too PS2's or the car stays where it is........... in there storage area.

have they been out longer in the US then? I'd be very interested to see their feedback.

[JMRS4]

J-P said:

JMRS4 said:

J-P said:

I had cups - found them fine but you need to be sensible in the wet and they hate standing water.

I bought the Conti's when they needed replacing (Sport Contact 3's which are the new OE tyre) which I'm told are only out about 6 months which I think are fine too and a much better all round tyre. Ride comfort is slightly worse but not enough to be really bothered about.

Not sure how they've got such a poor showing on here as I didn't think they'd been out long enough for anybody to have really had a great opportunity to live with and test them.

These crap tyres came on my new M3 M-DCT which I collect next week, I refused the car with them on, guys in the states have had some real issues with them, I ordered PS2's and the car came with these conti3's, they are being changed too PS2's or the car stays where it is........... in there storage area.

have they been out longer in the US then? I'd be very interested to see their feedback.

Have a look on some of there web sites and you can gleam some info.

[phatgixer]

gareth h said:

I've just done 20k miles on the m3 specific conti sports (E46). Certainly didn't have any of the traction issues described.

It is amazing what you can get used to. You need to do a back to back comparison and the difference is simply enormous! I was annoyed that I had dumbed down so much to accept the Conti (Sub-optimal) performance as normal. Within a mile of fitting PZeros (not even the superior Michelins!) the car was transformed.

More grip, better feel and a level of security in a different aeon... E46 was always edgy on Contis. Nasty nasty stuff peddled as quality as it is German engineered. Do not be taken in. They are dire.

[foresterlad]

I currently have a new set of cup's fitted, which proved a bit edgy in recent weather conditions but apart from standing water are no worse than PS2's with comparable tread depth. Changing rubber at 3mm. tread depth is the safest option irrespective of make