Starting to think about an E39 M5
Discussion
To cut a long story short, I had my heart set on a Porsche 996 but am coming to the realisation that I'm not going to find what I'm after within budget and the potential running/repair costs are putting me off taking out finance to get one.
So I've started thinking about E39 M5's and really warming to the idea.
I've been doing a little research on here and on M5board but am struggling to find definitive answers (a lot of M5board seems to be US based) so apologies in advance for going over what must be old ground.
I'd prefer a facelift car if only for the improved engine but I understand that very late pre facelift cars already had the engine upgrade. Can anybody confirm from what date this was the case?
It seems there were two trim options, one of which comes with wood and pleated leather. I don't mind the leather but am really not a fan of the wood. What would be the cost to swap all the trim and what are the options?
Most of the cars I've looked at have widescreen tv/nav and built in phone. If I wanted to use a Ipod with this setup, what are the costs?
If additionally, I wanted to use an iphone for calls only, what are the costs of either a bluetooth system or hard wired system to link to installed phone system? Don't really want a parrot or such like.
Is there now a permanent fix for the pixel missing dash problem? Again, expected costs?
I'm sure I had other questions but that's it for now.
So I've started thinking about E39 M5's and really warming to the idea.
I've been doing a little research on here and on M5board but am struggling to find definitive answers (a lot of M5board seems to be US based) so apologies in advance for going over what must be old ground.
I'd prefer a facelift car if only for the improved engine but I understand that very late pre facelift cars already had the engine upgrade. Can anybody confirm from what date this was the case?
It seems there were two trim options, one of which comes with wood and pleated leather. I don't mind the leather but am really not a fan of the wood. What would be the cost to swap all the trim and what are the options?
Most of the cars I've looked at have widescreen tv/nav and built in phone. If I wanted to use a Ipod with this setup, what are the costs?
If additionally, I wanted to use an iphone for calls only, what are the costs of either a bluetooth system or hard wired system to link to installed phone system? Don't really want a parrot or such like.
Is there now a permanent fix for the pixel missing dash problem? Again, expected costs?
I'm sure I had other questions but that's it for now.
Gad-Westy said:
To cut a long story short, I had my heart set on a Porsche 996 but am coming to the realisation that I'm not going to find what I'm after within budget and the potential running/repair costs are putting me off taking out finance to get one.
So I've started thinking about E39 M5's and really warming to the idea.
I've been doing a little research on here and on M5board but am struggling to find definitive answers (a lot of M5board seems to be US based) so apologies in advance for going over what must be old ground.
1) I'd prefer a facelift car if only for the improved engine but I understand that very late pre facelift cars already had the engine upgrade. Can anybody confirm from what date this was the case?
2) It seems there were two trim options, one of which comes with wood and pleated leather. I don't mind the leather but am really not a fan of the wood. What would be the cost to swap all the trim and what are the options?
3) Most of the cars I've looked at have widescreen tv/nav and built in phone. If I wanted to use a Ipod with this setup, what are the costs?
4) If additionally, I wanted to use an iphone for calls only, what are the costs of either a bluetooth system or hard wired system to link to installed phone system? Don't really want a parrot or such like.
5) Is there now a permanent fix for the pixel missing dash problem? Again, expected costs?
I'm sure I had other questions but that's it for now.
ad 1) March 2000So I've started thinking about E39 M5's and really warming to the idea.
I've been doing a little research on here and on M5board but am struggling to find definitive answers (a lot of M5board seems to be US based) so apologies in advance for going over what must be old ground.
1) I'd prefer a facelift car if only for the improved engine but I understand that very late pre facelift cars already had the engine upgrade. Can anybody confirm from what date this was the case?
2) It seems there were two trim options, one of which comes with wood and pleated leather. I don't mind the leather but am really not a fan of the wood. What would be the cost to swap all the trim and what are the options?
3) Most of the cars I've looked at have widescreen tv/nav and built in phone. If I wanted to use a Ipod with this setup, what are the costs?
4) If additionally, I wanted to use an iphone for calls only, what are the costs of either a bluetooth system or hard wired system to link to installed phone system? Don't really want a parrot or such like.
5) Is there now a permanent fix for the pixel missing dash problem? Again, expected costs?
I'm sure I had other questions but that's it for now.
ad 2) The Sport interior (which can be uni or bi-colour) has the aluminium trim, and in my experience the leather is more durable than the Heritage leather (all the ones I saw had cracks and badly needed leather care). The trim is quite expensive, IIRC I have seen a complete alu trim go on ebay for £500+ whereas the wood can be picked up cheap. Another way would be to paint the wood piano black?
ad 3) You want an Intravee with an Alpine KCA420i, which is about £200 (e.g. toysinyourcar has the kit)
ad 4) If you have the full Comms package (phone + GPS) the latest bluetooth module can be installed for about £300 but have a look over at http://www.bimmernav.com/bmw_e39_bluetooth_retrofi...
ad 5) Have a look here: http://forum.bmw5.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=3...
///Mike said:
I would have thought a 996 is cheaper to run than an M5.
Isn't a new clutch like £4k?
New clutch can be had for £250 - 500. If the clutch is not changed relatively soon after starting to slip, thus glazing the flywheel, add another £500 for that.Isn't a new clutch like £4k?
BTW, my clutch is still very strong after 80.000 km, and might even be the original clutch as I have no invoices from the original owner (so could be a 178.000 km clutch)
Gad-Westy said:
To cut a long story short, I had my heart set on a Porsche 996 but am coming to the realisation that I'm not going to find what I'm after within budget and the potential running/repair costs are putting me off taking out finance to get one.
So I've started thinking about E39 M5's and really warming to the idea.
Good idea - stick to it!
I've been doing a little research on here and on M5board but am struggling to find definitive answers (a lot of M5board seems to be US based) so apologies in advance for going over what must be old ground.
I'd prefer a facelift car if only for the improved engine but I understand that very late pre facelift cars already had the engine upgrade. Can anybody confirm from what date this was the case?
I believe the revised piston rings and vanos oil feed were in Post Nov 2000 cars, but I think you need to look into this in more detail - it depends on when the engine itself was made as opposed to when the car was sold. I bought an '01 facelift because of this and its engine is a gem - no oil burn, and nice quiet vanos.
It seems there were two trim options, one of which comes with wood and pleated leather. I don't mind the leather but am really not a fan of the wood. What would be the cost to swap all the trim and what are the options?
There are 4 basic trim options - cloth (rare and an acquired taste - though I quite like it!), and 3 leather options - sport, heritage and comfort. Sport is the most common (usually two tone panels), heritage is the stitched (rather than pleated) leather, and comfort has the massage pods built into the seats.
Most of the cars I've looked at have widescreen tv/nav and built in phone. If I wanted to use a Ipod with this setup, what are the costs?
If additionally, I wanted to use an iphone for calls only, what are the costs of either a bluetooth system or hard wired system to link to installed phone system? Don't really want a parrot or such like.
Is there now a permanent fix for the pixel missing dash problem? Again, expected costs?
I'm sure I had other questions but that's it for now.
Many people perceive an E39 M5 to be a big lumbering lump, but if you know how to use it - it is agile and well able to keep up with standard 911's of its own age on all roads.So I've started thinking about E39 M5's and really warming to the idea.
Good idea - stick to it!
I've been doing a little research on here and on M5board but am struggling to find definitive answers (a lot of M5board seems to be US based) so apologies in advance for going over what must be old ground.
I'd prefer a facelift car if only for the improved engine but I understand that very late pre facelift cars already had the engine upgrade. Can anybody confirm from what date this was the case?
I believe the revised piston rings and vanos oil feed were in Post Nov 2000 cars, but I think you need to look into this in more detail - it depends on when the engine itself was made as opposed to when the car was sold. I bought an '01 facelift because of this and its engine is a gem - no oil burn, and nice quiet vanos.
It seems there were two trim options, one of which comes with wood and pleated leather. I don't mind the leather but am really not a fan of the wood. What would be the cost to swap all the trim and what are the options?
There are 4 basic trim options - cloth (rare and an acquired taste - though I quite like it!), and 3 leather options - sport, heritage and comfort. Sport is the most common (usually two tone panels), heritage is the stitched (rather than pleated) leather, and comfort has the massage pods built into the seats.
Most of the cars I've looked at have widescreen tv/nav and built in phone. If I wanted to use a Ipod with this setup, what are the costs?
If additionally, I wanted to use an iphone for calls only, what are the costs of either a bluetooth system or hard wired system to link to installed phone system? Don't really want a parrot or such like.
Is there now a permanent fix for the pixel missing dash problem? Again, expected costs?
I'm sure I had other questions but that's it for now.
hope thats at least some help.
rassi said:
Gad-Westy said:
To cut a long story short, I had my heart set on a Porsche 996 but am coming to the realisation that I'm not going to find what I'm after within budget and the potential running/repair costs are putting me off taking out finance to get one.
So I've started thinking about E39 M5's and really warming to the idea.
I've been doing a little research on here and on M5board but am struggling to find definitive answers (a lot of M5board seems to be US based) so apologies in advance for going over what must be old ground.
1) I'd prefer a facelift car if only for the improved engine but I understand that very late pre facelift cars already had the engine upgrade. Can anybody confirm from what date this was the case?
2) It seems there were two trim options, one of which comes with wood and pleated leather. I don't mind the leather but am really not a fan of the wood. What would be the cost to swap all the trim and what are the options?
3) Most of the cars I've looked at have widescreen tv/nav and built in phone. If I wanted to use a Ipod with this setup, what are the costs?
4) If additionally, I wanted to use an iphone for calls only, what are the costs of either a bluetooth system or hard wired system to link to installed phone system? Don't really want a parrot or such like.
5) Is there now a permanent fix for the pixel missing dash problem? Again, expected costs?
I'm sure I had other questions but that's it for now.
ad 1) March 2000So I've started thinking about E39 M5's and really warming to the idea.
I've been doing a little research on here and on M5board but am struggling to find definitive answers (a lot of M5board seems to be US based) so apologies in advance for going over what must be old ground.
1) I'd prefer a facelift car if only for the improved engine but I understand that very late pre facelift cars already had the engine upgrade. Can anybody confirm from what date this was the case?
2) It seems there were two trim options, one of which comes with wood and pleated leather. I don't mind the leather but am really not a fan of the wood. What would be the cost to swap all the trim and what are the options?
3) Most of the cars I've looked at have widescreen tv/nav and built in phone. If I wanted to use a Ipod with this setup, what are the costs?
4) If additionally, I wanted to use an iphone for calls only, what are the costs of either a bluetooth system or hard wired system to link to installed phone system? Don't really want a parrot or such like.
5) Is there now a permanent fix for the pixel missing dash problem? Again, expected costs?
I'm sure I had other questions but that's it for now.
ad 2) The Sport interior (which can be uni or bi-colour) has the aluminium trim, and in my experience the leather is more durable than the Heritage leather (all the ones I saw had cracks and badly needed leather care). The trim is quite expensive, IIRC I have seen a complete alu trim go on ebay for £500+ whereas the wood can be picked up cheap. Another way would be to paint the wood piano black?
ad 3) You want an Intravee with an Alpine KCA420i, which is about £200 (e.g. toysinyourcar has the kit)
ad 4) If you have the full Comms package (phone + GPS) the latest bluetooth module can be installed for about £300 but have a look over at http://www.bimmernav.com/bmw_e39_bluetooth_retrofi...
ad 5) Have a look here: http://forum.bmw5.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=3...
Sounds like I should stick to sports pack.
On the phone front, that link suggests a price of $850 which sounds rather steep or have I misread things?
///Mike said:
I would have thought a 996 is cheaper to run than an M5.
Isn't a new clutch like £4k?
No idea about clutch though I've never heard figures like that mentioned.Isn't a new clutch like £4k?
My problem with the 996 was that I'd realistically have needed £20k to buy the car I wanted which would mean I'd probably need to finance half of it which would significantly add to my car outgoings.
It looks like I should be able to get a nice M5 for £9-13k which suits my pocket better if running costs are similar which I think they will be.
Gad-Westy said:
///Mike said:
I would have thought a 996 is cheaper to run than an M5.
Isn't a new clutch like £4k?
No idea about clutch though I've never heard figures like that mentioned.Isn't a new clutch like £4k?
My problem with the 996 was that I'd realistically have needed £20k to buy the car I wanted which would mean I'd probably need to finance half of it which would significantly add to my car outgoings.
It looks like I should be able to get a nice M5 for £9-13k which suits my pocket better if running costs are similar which I think they will be.
To aid in your decission making and for those not on M5Board. Sabine, E39 M5, 911 GT3.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3q-WnRG1a8I
Nothing else* can do that for circa 10k now. I happen to think in white it looks fantastic.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3q-WnRG1a8I
Nothing else* can do that for circa 10k now. I happen to think in white it looks fantastic.
- Disclaimer, as a gentleman I naturally exclude anything tacky, turbo charged, noisy and or Japanese.
I’ll have a go:
1- I waited for a facelift car. I’d heard they have an improved piston ring design that helps with oil consumption, improved vanos and widescreen sat nav. They are more expensive, but do appear to be preferred (may help with resale too).
2- check out somewhere like www.fabdirect.com they currently have very nice alcantara and cloth trim sports seats, with door cards for £350.
3- I’m told that to have an ipod lead you have to lose the CD changer. If any one has managed to run both, let me know!
4- I have the dodgy looking phone in the centre armrest. I’ve been looking for a retrofit bluetooth kit as well, I’m getting prices of ~£650 fitted for the BMW kit - If anyone knows of someone that can do it cheaper, let me know. It is possible to get a Parrot kit with an interface for the steering wheel controls, it may make more sense than the BMW kit.
5- I haven't used them but www.vdorepair.co.uk cost is £200 mail order or £280 mobile service. I think they guarantee them for 2 years as well.
I went for an M5 because I needed 4 big seats and a boot, If you’re also looking at a 996, sounds like you don’t. The M5 is a good car, but it is compromised - its close to 2 tonnes, rather large and getting on a bit now (even a 2002 will be close to 8 years old) with the associated running costs, repairs and creaks. My Z4MC is much more of an event to drive and isn't much slower. Something like that may cost you more upfront, but you wont be replacing/repairing stuff or buying bluetooth modules etc. - its also a better, more modern car IMHO.
I have them. They offer reasonable support, are really comfortable - especially on long journeys thanks to the massaging feature. After watching my wife extracting herself out of the Z4 with a short skirt on, i’d also say they’re more practical too! The leather on them also seems to be better quality. Personally, unless you drive everywhere at mach 1 or track the car, I wouldn't discount the comfort seats (or 7er seats).
1- I waited for a facelift car. I’d heard they have an improved piston ring design that helps with oil consumption, improved vanos and widescreen sat nav. They are more expensive, but do appear to be preferred (may help with resale too).
2- check out somewhere like www.fabdirect.com they currently have very nice alcantara and cloth trim sports seats, with door cards for £350.
3- I’m told that to have an ipod lead you have to lose the CD changer. If any one has managed to run both, let me know!
4- I have the dodgy looking phone in the centre armrest. I’ve been looking for a retrofit bluetooth kit as well, I’m getting prices of ~£650 fitted for the BMW kit - If anyone knows of someone that can do it cheaper, let me know. It is possible to get a Parrot kit with an interface for the steering wheel controls, it may make more sense than the BMW kit.
5- I haven't used them but www.vdorepair.co.uk cost is £200 mail order or £280 mobile service. I think they guarantee them for 2 years as well.
I went for an M5 because I needed 4 big seats and a boot, If you’re also looking at a 996, sounds like you don’t. The M5 is a good car, but it is compromised - its close to 2 tonnes, rather large and getting on a bit now (even a 2002 will be close to 8 years old) with the associated running costs, repairs and creaks. My Z4MC is much more of an event to drive and isn't much slower. Something like that may cost you more upfront, but you wont be replacing/repairing stuff or buying bluetooth modules etc. - its also a better, more modern car IMHO.
Neil.D said:
One more comment regarding the seats,
You could specify 'comfort seats' that are taken from the 7 series. They look terrible in my opinion and dont suit the car at all.
Hmmm. Have to disagree. You could specify 'comfort seats' that are taken from the 7 series. They look terrible in my opinion and dont suit the car at all.
I have them. They offer reasonable support, are really comfortable - especially on long journeys thanks to the massaging feature. After watching my wife extracting herself out of the Z4 with a short skirt on, i’d also say they’re more practical too! The leather on them also seems to be better quality. Personally, unless you drive everywhere at mach 1 or track the car, I wouldn't discount the comfort seats (or 7er seats).
Neil.D said:
One more comment regarding the seats,
You could specify 'comfort seats' that are taken from the 7 series. They look terrible in my opinion and dont suit the car at all.
Hmmm. Have to disagree. You could specify 'comfort seats' that are taken from the 7 series. They look terrible in my opinion and dont suit the car at all.
I have them. They offer reasonable support, are really comfortable - especially on long journeys thanks to the massaging feature. After watching my wife extracting herself out of the Z4 with a short skirt on, i’d also say they’re more practical too! The leather on them also seems to be better quality. Personally, unless you drive everywhere at mach 1 or track the car, I wouldn't discount the comfort seats (or 7er seats).
I've sat in a fair few M5s with various seats (my preference is for Heritage Stitched) but I find my own comfort seats as supportive if not more supportive than some of the sports seats - having said that - if anyone wants to sell a set of heritage stitched in black - drop me a mail!! :-)
I had Comfort Seats on mine with the Active (massage) option. They were indeed very comfortable for longer journeys and had the added advantage of adjustable shoulder bolsters which was not available on the sports seats (Active seat option was not available for sports seats either). That said, they do not hug you like the sport seats do and are a lot rarer. You pay your money and take your choice.
The leather on the Comfort seats was called "Heritage" leather and was also softer than the standard Nappa leather on the sports seats. BMW Individual also supplied some cars with an even softer Connolly leather but this is very rare indeed.
The leather on the Comfort seats was called "Heritage" leather and was also softer than the standard Nappa leather on the sports seats. BMW Individual also supplied some cars with an even softer Connolly leather but this is very rare indeed.
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