M3 vs Alpina B3 Biturbo vs 997 C2S Roadtest
Discussion
I'm in the market for something a bit more interesting to replace my Golf GTi (although still think it's a great car esp with the DCT gearbox) and be the 2nd car to our Alpina B5 Touring. Initial thoughts were to get an M3 Saloon, but was also interested in trying a B3 Biturbo. Long story short, I ended up at Vines in Guildford who currently have a B3 Biturbo convertible and an M3 Coupe with DCT. On the way, we passed the Porsche dealership and my wife convinced me to have a look, and as a result, we were lent their 997 C2S demo for 45 mins. I then did back to back drives in the two BMWs.
Thoughts.....
997 C2S - I've never been a massive fan of the looks, but more recently they've grown on me, and inside they feel special. On the move, it's got good acceleration but not earth shattering, with nice gear-change (this one was manual), although offset brake pedal took a bit of getting used to. Best feature was the handling which felt fantastic - really well connected through the steering, and although you felt the weight out back, it felt very planted. The kids had enough room in the back and seem to enjoy it too!
M3 - what an engine! Pulls well from around 3000rpm and it's unbelievable that it revs past 8000! It sounds awesome too. I loved the DCT too, esp blipping on the downchange, and suspect you'd end up just changing down to hear the engine revving back up again. It felt slightly quicker than the C2S too. Handling-wise it felt good too, and although inside is nice, it doesn't feel special in the same way the Porsche does.
B3 Biturbo - started off feeling dull in comparison to the other two...steering sluggish, engine didn't pull as well, throttle response a bit slow.... but after warming up and hitting a bit of speed, it came alive. It's not as brutally quick as the M3 in a neck snapping way, but more of a continual building of speed as the revs rise. Once past 3000 the engine begins to sound good too. The gearbox doesn't miss out to the other two either despite being an auto box, with good shift speed, and a nice blipping of the throttle on downchanges.
So which one is best? Want something special to own and drive? A 997. Want something brutally fast that will give you whiplash every time you go for a play, as well as a true 4 seater? An M3. Want something subtle that goes v v fast, makes a decent sound doing it, but doesn't shake you up? A B3 Biturbo.
I guess the above isn't too surprising given various reviews and what the manufacturers have set out to do, but was an interesting day none-the-less.
Which one do I want? Short answer is I don't know!! As it's not the family car I don't need the smoothness of the Alpina but I love the rarity / q-car / subtlety of them. I loved the engine in the M3 esp coupled with the DCT gearbox, but do wonder if wanting to rev it past 8k every time I get in it might wear a bit thin after a while. And the 997? Probably the car your heart would buy, but I'm not sure about the compromises in terms of cost, space etc.
Other thoughts welcome!
Thoughts.....
997 C2S - I've never been a massive fan of the looks, but more recently they've grown on me, and inside they feel special. On the move, it's got good acceleration but not earth shattering, with nice gear-change (this one was manual), although offset brake pedal took a bit of getting used to. Best feature was the handling which felt fantastic - really well connected through the steering, and although you felt the weight out back, it felt very planted. The kids had enough room in the back and seem to enjoy it too!
M3 - what an engine! Pulls well from around 3000rpm and it's unbelievable that it revs past 8000! It sounds awesome too. I loved the DCT too, esp blipping on the downchange, and suspect you'd end up just changing down to hear the engine revving back up again. It felt slightly quicker than the C2S too. Handling-wise it felt good too, and although inside is nice, it doesn't feel special in the same way the Porsche does.
B3 Biturbo - started off feeling dull in comparison to the other two...steering sluggish, engine didn't pull as well, throttle response a bit slow.... but after warming up and hitting a bit of speed, it came alive. It's not as brutally quick as the M3 in a neck snapping way, but more of a continual building of speed as the revs rise. Once past 3000 the engine begins to sound good too. The gearbox doesn't miss out to the other two either despite being an auto box, with good shift speed, and a nice blipping of the throttle on downchanges.
So which one is best? Want something special to own and drive? A 997. Want something brutally fast that will give you whiplash every time you go for a play, as well as a true 4 seater? An M3. Want something subtle that goes v v fast, makes a decent sound doing it, but doesn't shake you up? A B3 Biturbo.
I guess the above isn't too surprising given various reviews and what the manufacturers have set out to do, but was an interesting day none-the-less.
Which one do I want? Short answer is I don't know!! As it's not the family car I don't need the smoothness of the Alpina but I love the rarity / q-car / subtlety of them. I loved the engine in the M3 esp coupled with the DCT gearbox, but do wonder if wanting to rev it past 8k every time I get in it might wear a bit thin after a while. And the 997? Probably the car your heart would buy, but I'm not sure about the compromises in terms of cost, space etc.
Other thoughts welcome!
I have just gone from the 997 to the M3. M3 in my opinion is faster with more playful handling. I use it as my second car and do very few miles in it. When you drive it enthusiastically the mpg on the M3 is shocking getting between 11-14 mpg whereas the 997 would do 18-22. It seems like I am constantly filling up. I had to change due to young children the 997 is too much of a squeeze. If your kids are out of baby seats then I would take the 997 every time as it is special. Just my opinion oh and you don't get bored of revving the M3 !
Edited by phucks1976 on Sunday 21st February 09:48
I have a 997S cab that is just coming up to five years old and I have had from new. I got an M3 saloon a year ago to replace a 535d as the family car.
I agree with your general assessment, the M3 does feel a bit faster in a straight line, the engine is awsome, but the 997 fels more planted on the twisty bits. Both cars are special in their own ways.
In summary, for me, the M3 (in saloon and at a stretch in coupe form) is probably the best all round car for my needs because it is practical, fast and real fun to drive. So if I could only have one car, that would tick the boxes. The 997 is a bit more special to drive though - you feel more connected to the car. I hope I can keep my Porsche forever because I don't think I will ever get bored of it.
I agree with your general assessment, the M3 does feel a bit faster in a straight line, the engine is awsome, but the 997 fels more planted on the twisty bits. Both cars are special in their own ways.
In summary, for me, the M3 (in saloon and at a stretch in coupe form) is probably the best all round car for my needs because it is practical, fast and real fun to drive. So if I could only have one car, that would tick the boxes. The 997 is a bit more special to drive though - you feel more connected to the car. I hope I can keep my Porsche forever because I don't think I will ever get bored of it.
Your answer depends on some questions?
Do you have kids, and if so how many and at what age? 0 - 997, 1 under 3 - M3, 1 over 3 - 997, 2 at any age M3, kids left home and you are retired and want something to do shopping in or go to the driving range - B3 or any Jag.
Do you care about depreciation? No - probably 997, although M3 gets stung a bit. In my experience, porkers get raped good. M3's seem to take an initial hit and then bottom out at 30k or above. B3 - i would imagine its rarity would hold its value best, but it would take longer to sell.
Do you care about the badge? Yes - porsche (you can tell all your friends who will think more of you), No - B3 or M3, although to non motoring buffs M3 might mean Yob. B3 would get the least unwanted and most wanted attention.
Reliability? Good on all really, but I would suspect slightly better on the BMWs.
Extras - many more on BMW's. I say that as a Porsche fan. Porsche are tight and don't come with much. eg floor matts are extra! On a 70k car!!!!!
Summary - all good motors. M3, as a bloke with kids, has least downside and is much easier to live with.
Best of luck choosing!!!
Do you have kids, and if so how many and at what age? 0 - 997, 1 under 3 - M3, 1 over 3 - 997, 2 at any age M3, kids left home and you are retired and want something to do shopping in or go to the driving range - B3 or any Jag.
Do you care about depreciation? No - probably 997, although M3 gets stung a bit. In my experience, porkers get raped good. M3's seem to take an initial hit and then bottom out at 30k or above. B3 - i would imagine its rarity would hold its value best, but it would take longer to sell.
Do you care about the badge? Yes - porsche (you can tell all your friends who will think more of you), No - B3 or M3, although to non motoring buffs M3 might mean Yob. B3 would get the least unwanted and most wanted attention.
Reliability? Good on all really, but I would suspect slightly better on the BMWs.
Extras - many more on BMW's. I say that as a Porsche fan. Porsche are tight and don't come with much. eg floor matts are extra! On a 70k car!!!!!
Summary - all good motors. M3, as a bloke with kids, has least downside and is much easier to live with.
Best of luck choosing!!!
pjv997 said:
The 997 is a bit more special to drive though - you feel more connected to the car. I hope I can keep my Porsche forever because I don't think I will ever get bored of it.
Comparing M3 saloon to coupe, there was something about the seating position which made me feel more connected in the coupe - has anyone else compared the two and noticed this? There was also a bit more exhaust noise in the coupe, together making the coupe feel a sportier drive, though there was no difference in capability.Edited by waremark on Sunday 21st February 16:23
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