Buying advice on a Z3M
Discussion
Have a good look at z3mcoupe.com or zroadster.net. There's lots of info about, but the main things to watch out for are a healthy VANOS on an S50 or healthy crank shells on an S54. All cars are prone to the boot-floor and diff hanger failure so make sure that all the spot welds are solid and the hanger is in good nick. They can be pretty tough on the suspension, bushes and top mounts so try to find one that's had these sorted Other than that they seem to pretty reliable for a 10 year old 321bhp sportscar. As with any car, look for a solid service history with regular oil changes.
Good luck.
Good luck.
had a z3m - dont do it, it rides badly and handles even worse...
film of me at a track day - i blame the car not the talent..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vWJSpBnRpAM
film of me at a track day - i blame the car not the talent..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vWJSpBnRpAM
BrewsterBear said:
They can be pretty tough on the suspension, bushes and top mounts so try to find one that's had these sorted.
ortontom said:
had a z3m - dont do it, it rides badly and handles even worse...
<Sigh>A well maintained Coupé or roadster handles very well indeed and is easily controllable at, and beyond, the limit. Of course if your suspension is shagged then you could blame the car, but a combination of lack of talent and lack of maintenance is the far more likely culprit.
TVR Horsepower, I had a pedal in a Z3M roadster in the US last summer. 
Whilst probably not having the torque curve of your Chim I was very impressed at just how tractable it was at only moderate revs. I got out of it hugely impressed with it's flexibility compared to non-M bimmers.
Obviously, at the Banzai end of the rev range, there's little to compare with M engines.
Hope you find a good one.
Whilst probably not having the torque curve of your Chim I was very impressed at just how tractable it was at only moderate revs. I got out of it hugely impressed with it's flexibility compared to non-M bimmers.
Obviously, at the Banzai end of the rev range, there's little to compare with M engines.
Hope you find a good one.
Had mine for 6 months now and my only regret is not getting one sooner. Sure I've heard horror stories regarding Vanos and weld issues but I'm sure the vast majority of these are blown out of proportion on the internet. There are a few Vanos solutions available and they don't cost much more than a good service.
Did two 100 mile trips weekend just gone and returned a tidy 29 mpg. Ownership costs to date have been little although I have an Inspection II coming up but at a good indy doesn't sound too bad for an 11 year old £35k sports car. My only issues are the naff stereo, poor headlights and several internal bulbs needing replacement.
Did two 100 mile trips weekend just gone and returned a tidy 29 mpg. Ownership costs to date have been little although I have an Inspection II coming up but at a good indy doesn't sound too bad for an 11 year old £35k sports car. My only issues are the naff stereo, poor headlights and several internal bulbs needing replacement.
DaveR said:
TVR Horsepower, I had a pedal in a Z3M roadster in the US last summer.
Whilst probably not having the torque curve of your Chim I was very impressed at just how tractable it was at only moderate revs. I got out of it hugely impressed with it's flexibility compared to non-M bimmers.
Obviously, at the Banzai end of the rev range, there's little to compare with M engines.
Hope you find a good one.
Unless it was the late S54 engined version, the Z3M you drove would have had the US only 240 bhp engine (basically a bored/stroked 328 engine).Whilst probably not having the torque curve of your Chim I was very impressed at just how tractable it was at only moderate revs. I got out of it hugely impressed with it's flexibility compared to non-M bimmers.
Obviously, at the Banzai end of the rev range, there's little to compare with M engines.
Hope you find a good one.
My Z3M Coupe was an event every time I took it out for a blast and very quick, but with no DSC and short wheelbase it can be a bit of a handful.
ortontom said:
had a z3m - dont do it, it rides badly and handles even worse...
film of me at a track day - i blame the car not the talent..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vWJSpBnRpAM
"Best handling car in the Business" might be over the top in the attached clip but Tiff thinks the roadster is just fine.film of me at a track day - i blame the car not the talent..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vWJSpBnRpAM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I4_4BLSXeeU
Most would also agree that the Z3M handled better than the Z roadster.
ortontom said:
had a z3m - dont do it, it rides badly and handles even worse...
film of me at a track day - i blame the car not the talent..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vWJSpBnRpAM
Valid opinion but balance that with the fact that not everyone buys one to track it. Me, I like the fact that the coupe (in my case) is different, and it certainly provides enough fun and handling for me on the public road. Lots of fun for the money and a few S54 coupes have appeared for sale this week. I'd certainly suggest you take a factory standard one out for a spin and not rule out a purchase before you have done. film of me at a track day - i blame the car not the talent..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vWJSpBnRpAM
CRACKIE said:
'Yadi said:
I'd certainly suggest you take a factory standard one out for a spin and not rule out a purchase before you have done.
Freudian slip ??In my 2 years experience of owning an S50 Z3MC, I would say the following:
VANOS (S50)
I feel this is *massively* over-hyped. Most failures are the VANOS solenoid cover bolts failing, spraying oil out of the engine. Catch it early and it's a clean up operation only. Catch it too late and it's bye-bye engine. Way to [help] prevent it...replace the bolts every year / 10k miles. Easy job and costs less than a tenner. See this guide for info: http://mukerji.co.uk/category/vanos/
Also expect the VANOS to be noisy. This is best heard as a mechanical growl / gnashing at low speed on a closed throttle dropping down through about 1500rpm. The other way to check the VANOS is ok is through the performance. Floor it in 3rd from around 10mph and you should get a very significant kick just before 2500rpm and then another less significant kick around 5000rpm. If it does this, it's working.
N.B. Also ensure the oil temp reaches 60C before exceeding 4k rpm, although I personally always waited until full oil temp was reached before exceeding 3.5k rpm.
Boot Floor Cracking
Have seen a few peeps on Z3MCoupe.com with these failing. I think most cars that fail have either had a hard life or modified suspension fitted, placing greater strain on the welded joints. However it's easy to check; lift up the boot carpet, removed the rear toolkit holder and have a looksee.
RTM Rear Top Mounts
If there's a knocking sound going over bumps, then most likely it's the RTMs. Bugger of a job to replace. 3-4hrs of back breaking work, which I why I had Clive at Munich Motors do mine!!
Rear Wiper
Maybe this was just a particularly bad problem for me, but there are a lot of rear wiper issues out there. Check it works as per design, check it sprays ok, and ensure you give it a good spray and then check for leaks. Easy part to get at, but a properly rubbish design.
Otherwise they're mechanically sound in my experience. Great cars too and *that engine*!!! It's a masterpiece.
Cheers,
VANOS (S50)
I feel this is *massively* over-hyped. Most failures are the VANOS solenoid cover bolts failing, spraying oil out of the engine. Catch it early and it's a clean up operation only. Catch it too late and it's bye-bye engine. Way to [help] prevent it...replace the bolts every year / 10k miles. Easy job and costs less than a tenner. See this guide for info: http://mukerji.co.uk/category/vanos/
Also expect the VANOS to be noisy. This is best heard as a mechanical growl / gnashing at low speed on a closed throttle dropping down through about 1500rpm. The other way to check the VANOS is ok is through the performance. Floor it in 3rd from around 10mph and you should get a very significant kick just before 2500rpm and then another less significant kick around 5000rpm. If it does this, it's working.
N.B. Also ensure the oil temp reaches 60C before exceeding 4k rpm, although I personally always waited until full oil temp was reached before exceeding 3.5k rpm.
Boot Floor Cracking
Have seen a few peeps on Z3MCoupe.com with these failing. I think most cars that fail have either had a hard life or modified suspension fitted, placing greater strain on the welded joints. However it's easy to check; lift up the boot carpet, removed the rear toolkit holder and have a looksee.
RTM Rear Top Mounts
If there's a knocking sound going over bumps, then most likely it's the RTMs. Bugger of a job to replace. 3-4hrs of back breaking work, which I why I had Clive at Munich Motors do mine!!
Rear Wiper
Maybe this was just a particularly bad problem for me, but there are a lot of rear wiper issues out there. Check it works as per design, check it sprays ok, and ensure you give it a good spray and then check for leaks. Easy part to get at, but a properly rubbish design.
Otherwise they're mechanically sound in my experience. Great cars too and *that engine*!!! It's a masterpiece.
Cheers,
ghibbett said:
RTM Rear Top Mounts
If there's a knocking sound going over bumps, then most likely it's the RTMs. Bugger of a job to replace. 3-4hrs of back breaking work, which I why I had Clive at Munich Motors do mine!!
How so? If there's a knocking sound going over bumps, then most likely it's the RTMs. Bugger of a job to replace. 3-4hrs of back breaking work, which I why I had Clive at Munich Motors do mine!!
In the E36 M3, the RTMs are a pretty simple job to swap out. Is access a problem in the Zed?
Great Pretender said:
ghibbett said:
RTM Rear Top Mounts
If there's a knocking sound going over bumps, then most likely it's the RTMs. Bugger of a job to replace. 3-4hrs of back breaking work, which I why I had Clive at Munich Motors do mine!!
How so? If there's a knocking sound going over bumps, then most likely it's the RTMs. Bugger of a job to replace. 3-4hrs of back breaking work, which I why I had Clive at Munich Motors do mine!!
In the E36 M3, the RTMs are a pretty simple job to swap out. Is access a problem in the Zed?
http://www.ex-parrot.com/pdw/mcoupe/rsm.html
ghibbett said:
In my 2 years experience of owning an S50 Z3MC, I would say the following:
VANOS (S50)
I feel this is *massively* over-hyped. Most failures are the VANOS solenoid cover bolts failing, spraying oil out of the engine. Catch it early and it's a clean up operation only. Catch it too late and it's bye-bye engine. Way to [help] prevent it...replace the bolts every year / 10k miles. Easy job and costs less than a tenner. See this guide for info: http://mukerji.co.uk/category/vanos/
Also expect the VANOS to be noisy. This is best heard as a mechanical growl / gnashing at low speed on a closed throttle dropping down through about 1500rpm. The other way to check the VANOS is ok is through the performance. Floor it in 3rd from around 10mph and you should get a very significant kick just before 2500rpm and then another less significant kick around 5000rpm. If it does this, it's working.
N.B. Also ensure the oil temp reaches 60C before exceeding 4k rpm, although I personally always waited until full oil temp was reached before exceeding 3.5k rpm.
Boot Floor Cracking
Have seen a few peeps on Z3MCoupe.com with these failing. I think most cars that fail have either had a hard life or modified suspension fitted, placing greater strain on the welded joints. However it's easy to check; lift up the boot carpet, removed the rear toolkit holder and have a looksee.
RTM Rear Top Mounts
If there's a knocking sound going over bumps, then most likely it's the RTMs. Bugger of a job to replace. 3-4hrs of back breaking work, which I why I had Clive at Munich Motors do mine!!
Rear Wiper
Maybe this was just a particularly bad problem for me, but there are a lot of rear wiper issues out there. Check it works as per design, check it sprays ok, and ensure you give it a good spray and then check for leaks. Easy part to get at, but a properly rubbish design.
Otherwise they're mechanically sound in my experience. Great cars too and *that engine*!!! It's a masterpiece.
Cheers,
What he said.VANOS (S50)
I feel this is *massively* over-hyped. Most failures are the VANOS solenoid cover bolts failing, spraying oil out of the engine. Catch it early and it's a clean up operation only. Catch it too late and it's bye-bye engine. Way to [help] prevent it...replace the bolts every year / 10k miles. Easy job and costs less than a tenner. See this guide for info: http://mukerji.co.uk/category/vanos/
Also expect the VANOS to be noisy. This is best heard as a mechanical growl / gnashing at low speed on a closed throttle dropping down through about 1500rpm. The other way to check the VANOS is ok is through the performance. Floor it in 3rd from around 10mph and you should get a very significant kick just before 2500rpm and then another less significant kick around 5000rpm. If it does this, it's working.
N.B. Also ensure the oil temp reaches 60C before exceeding 4k rpm, although I personally always waited until full oil temp was reached before exceeding 3.5k rpm.
Boot Floor Cracking
Have seen a few peeps on Z3MCoupe.com with these failing. I think most cars that fail have either had a hard life or modified suspension fitted, placing greater strain on the welded joints. However it's easy to check; lift up the boot carpet, removed the rear toolkit holder and have a looksee.
RTM Rear Top Mounts
If there's a knocking sound going over bumps, then most likely it's the RTMs. Bugger of a job to replace. 3-4hrs of back breaking work, which I why I had Clive at Munich Motors do mine!!
Rear Wiper
Maybe this was just a particularly bad problem for me, but there are a lot of rear wiper issues out there. Check it works as per design, check it sprays ok, and ensure you give it a good spray and then check for leaks. Easy part to get at, but a properly rubbish design.
Otherwise they're mechanically sound in my experience. Great cars too and *that engine*!!! It's a masterpiece.
Cheers,
I've owned mine for 8 months and it's by no means been a low cost ownership experience, I've had to do the following jobs (some by me, some by CPC - Phil Crouch);
- rear wiper seized
- front disks and pads (£350 in parts alone)
- Analogue clock (lost about 20 mins a day, common problem)
- Replaced various bits of trim (remember it was essentially designed in a shed, therefore the quality isnt as good as it could be)
- Clutch (got V Heavy)
- Rogue Top mounts
- ARP rod bolts as prevenative maintenance to stop the shells spinning at high RPM, OEM bolts stretch over time
- Head gasket (old one started seeping oil)
- Main vanos seals went brittle and started leaking
- AC compressor seized
- AC condensor holed
- Headlights take a battering and you can't buy new glass anymore, just new units, so I had the old ones polished.
Plus other bits I can't remember... oh yeah I had some paint work done on one side from a dodgey colour match from a previous repair.
You get the picture that they are not cheap cars to run, however every time I get in it truely is an experience and if you like bringing attention to yourself, you'll never go to a petrol station without someone wanting to have a chat about it!
I bought mine after selling my E46 330ci sport, and this is a completely different beast all together in terms of overall experience!
I'm off to Dunsfold this weekend, so come over and have a chat if you want to!
Don't rule out the roadsters as a toy for some fun top down motoring ;-)
I had exactly the same question a year ago when I decided I wanted a weekend toy for some fun, started off looking at Z4m's and settled on Z3m at half the cost.
I agree with most of comments above apart from the obvious handling one, stock they are more than adequate for most drivers, a few popular mods and they will keep a skilled driver entertained. Pre S54 engined without traction control just demand respect in the damp.
You can be darn out dirty with em, and believe me £ for £ most fun I've had out of a car!
I had exactly the same question a year ago when I decided I wanted a weekend toy for some fun, started off looking at Z4m's and settled on Z3m at half the cost.
I agree with most of comments above apart from the obvious handling one, stock they are more than adequate for most drivers, a few popular mods and they will keep a skilled driver entertained. Pre S54 engined without traction control just demand respect in the damp.
You can be darn out dirty with em, and believe me £ for £ most fun I've had out of a car!
lol
come on im only joking, M-roadster was good value but personally did not enjoy the overall experience I then drove and owned many of the other M cars and truely loved them. Managed to have another go driving a m-roadster recently and found it not to my liking and enjoyed a boxster better. Better feeling, the M-coupe is a better handling car true....
but hey i dont own one now, i traded the M roadster for a brand new RS focus mk1 when they first came out and loved the change - missed the M-roadster but not its angry nature - the friend who bought it recalls a full 80mph twitch under full power...ekk...
come on im only joking, M-roadster was good value but personally did not enjoy the overall experience I then drove and owned many of the other M cars and truely loved them. Managed to have another go driving a m-roadster recently and found it not to my liking and enjoyed a boxster better. Better feeling, the M-coupe is a better handling car true....
but hey i dont own one now, i traded the M roadster for a brand new RS focus mk1 when they first came out and loved the change - missed the M-roadster but not its angry nature - the friend who bought it recalls a full 80mph twitch under full power...ekk...
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