Discussion
Has anyone gone from a Z4C to a Z4MC? If so, have you got any regrets? Can you feel the extra weight in the corners or notice a massive difference in fuel economy?
I've had my Z4c for a couple of years now and am thinking about the M. Not having a LSD is starting to get really annoying, although it's probably compounded by not having much tread left on the rears.
I've ditched the run flats and am using falcons instead, does anyone know how the M ride compares to a 3.0coupe on normal tyres?
Drove an M a year or so ago and wasn't bowled over at the time, but maybe that's because i didn't fully extend the engine with the dealer next to me. Any comments welcome (positive and negative), especially if you've made the change!
I've had my Z4c for a couple of years now and am thinking about the M. Not having a LSD is starting to get really annoying, although it's probably compounded by not having much tread left on the rears.
I've ditched the run flats and am using falcons instead, does anyone know how the M ride compares to a 3.0coupe on normal tyres?
Drove an M a year or so ago and wasn't bowled over at the time, but maybe that's because i didn't fully extend the engine with the dealer next to me. Any comments welcome (positive and negative), especially if you've made the change!
I went from 3.0 Z4C to e46 M3 then to Z4MC, so didn't get to do a direct comparison. But all the same, I'd say go for it.
The main downsides, as far as I can see, are higher insurance, tax and service costs and a little less boot space (battery is in the boot in the M). Pretty much everything else is better: steering, brakes, noise, bonnet styling, ride etc. And of course power: although the 0-60 times are only about 1 sec different, the extra 75bhp of the M really is noticeable, especially when you let it fly.
I can't say I noticed the extra weight but, as I said, I didn't swap straight from one to the other.
I don't remember any significant difference in mpg over long distances. Around town the M will be quite a bit thirstier, but on a decent motorway run I was getting 28ish in the M and maybe low-30s in the 3.0.
Only you can decide whether the "M-factor" is worth the extra cash. In my view it was. And my guess is that the costs might just about even out if you take depreciation into account. I suspect 3.0 values will continue to fall gradually whilst the M seems to have firmed up.
Great decision to have to make! Good luck with it.
The main downsides, as far as I can see, are higher insurance, tax and service costs and a little less boot space (battery is in the boot in the M). Pretty much everything else is better: steering, brakes, noise, bonnet styling, ride etc. And of course power: although the 0-60 times are only about 1 sec different, the extra 75bhp of the M really is noticeable, especially when you let it fly.
I can't say I noticed the extra weight but, as I said, I didn't swap straight from one to the other.
I don't remember any significant difference in mpg over long distances. Around town the M will be quite a bit thirstier, but on a decent motorway run I was getting 28ish in the M and maybe low-30s in the 3.0.
Only you can decide whether the "M-factor" is worth the extra cash. In my view it was. And my guess is that the costs might just about even out if you take depreciation into account. I suspect 3.0 values will continue to fall gradually whilst the M seems to have firmed up.
Great decision to have to make! Good luck with it.
I'm thinking of going the other way !
To be honest, my MC is no harsher than my old 2.5 roadster (with sport suspension and run flats). I don;t thnik you'll regret the move, despite what people say about harsh ride etc, i don;t think its bad and its an awesome car, the engine and performance is staggering.
Sadly my work situation has changed and i'm driving silly mileage every day, including a 500 mile round trip once a week, and its not really suitable for this kind of abuse (in my view), piling the mileage on won't hurt the car, but will crucify the resale value, and although i can get 26mpg out of it, i have to be sensible. So ifyou don;t need to worry about this, i'd say go for it !
I've previously driven a 3.0l Auto, which is where i'll probably end up, but i will miss the power and exclusivity of the m, and the steering, which is much better than the standard system fitted to the other Zed's !
To be honest, my MC is no harsher than my old 2.5 roadster (with sport suspension and run flats). I don;t thnik you'll regret the move, despite what people say about harsh ride etc, i don;t think its bad and its an awesome car, the engine and performance is staggering.
Sadly my work situation has changed and i'm driving silly mileage every day, including a 500 mile round trip once a week, and its not really suitable for this kind of abuse (in my view), piling the mileage on won't hurt the car, but will crucify the resale value, and although i can get 26mpg out of it, i have to be sensible. So ifyou don;t need to worry about this, i'd say go for it !
I've previously driven a 3.0l Auto, which is where i'll probably end up, but i will miss the power and exclusivity of the m, and the steering, which is much better than the standard system fitted to the other Zed's !
I had an E46 M3 from new and loved the car but felt for the amount of time I used the extra power, the M costs were unjustified.
When the time came to replace the car, I weighed up Z4C against Z4MC and decided to go for the non-M. I haven't regretted the decision.
The standard Z4C does 0-60 in 5.7 seconds and has a top speed limited to 155 mph (as with the M). More than enough for me.
I haven't missed the extra power, but have enjoyed better fuel consumption, insurance at less than half the price and VED at nearly half the price. Service costs are lower too, especially when it comes to the 'big' ones.
When the time came to replace the car, I weighed up Z4C against Z4MC and decided to go for the non-M. I haven't regretted the decision.
The standard Z4C does 0-60 in 5.7 seconds and has a top speed limited to 155 mph (as with the M). More than enough for me.
I haven't missed the extra power, but have enjoyed better fuel consumption, insurance at less than half the price and VED at nearly half the price. Service costs are lower too, especially when it comes to the 'big' ones.
mmm-five said:
rage999 said:
on my way to Silverstone last week, i got 35mpg on a steady 70mph cruise on the M1
But I bet that was because you reset it when you where already at 70mph.I can get 99mpg if I get to 30mph and put the cruise on in 5th gear.
if i reset when i leave home, and trundle along the motorways at a steady 70-75mph, go through a town and park at my destination i can average 34MPG.
My wife has a Z4C (3.0 Sport) and I a Z4MC.
Our opinion is this... For everyday driving the Z4C's performance is more easily accessible as it produces its maximum torque much lower in the revs, about 2700rpm, so you don't have to work it hard to enjoy its performance. Therefore if it is road thrills and effortless performance you seek the Z4C ticks the box and is deceptively quick and massively enjoyable too, especially if you buy the sport rather than the SE.
The Z4M is a significantly different animal... It has to be revved much harder to access its ultimate performance with max torque being at much higher revs, circa 5000rpm - Once in the sweet spot it is an adrenalin rush that never fails to impress and makes ownership a joy. However on public roads you cannot enjoy its sweet spot for long because of the speeds you end up doing! That makes it quite frustrating a lot of the time.
On the track where you can keep the car in its powerband it makes perfect sense as a performance car and feels much more at home when being driven hard and extended in every gear.
So if track days or adrenalin filled blasts where you rev the car hard are what you seek the Z4M delivers in spades.
But bear in mind you may well find around town or general road driving it feels a little awkward and will constantly beg you to let it off the leash.
We love both our cars but they are very different, having both in the household suits our needs perfectly, the M being the "Beast" we unleash on the weekends.
Our opinion is this... For everyday driving the Z4C's performance is more easily accessible as it produces its maximum torque much lower in the revs, about 2700rpm, so you don't have to work it hard to enjoy its performance. Therefore if it is road thrills and effortless performance you seek the Z4C ticks the box and is deceptively quick and massively enjoyable too, especially if you buy the sport rather than the SE.
The Z4M is a significantly different animal... It has to be revved much harder to access its ultimate performance with max torque being at much higher revs, circa 5000rpm - Once in the sweet spot it is an adrenalin rush that never fails to impress and makes ownership a joy. However on public roads you cannot enjoy its sweet spot for long because of the speeds you end up doing! That makes it quite frustrating a lot of the time.
On the track where you can keep the car in its powerband it makes perfect sense as a performance car and feels much more at home when being driven hard and extended in every gear.
So if track days or adrenalin filled blasts where you rev the car hard are what you seek the Z4M delivers in spades.
But bear in mind you may well find around town or general road driving it feels a little awkward and will constantly beg you to let it off the leash.
We love both our cars but they are very different, having both in the household suits our needs perfectly, the M being the "Beast" we unleash on the weekends.
Edited by Peppermint on Tuesday 1st June 23:24
So if track days or adrenalin filled blasts where you rev the car hard are what you seek the Z4M delivers in spades.
But bear in mind you may well find around town or general road driving it feels a little awkward and will constantly beg you to let it off the leash.
Agree with that comment. I had an M3 previously and it could be driven slowly without any feeling of ' awkwardness' where as the Z4M with the suspension setup it has and tweeks to the s54 engine just begs to be driven by the scruff of the neck.
It really is a different animal..German TVR..
But bear in mind you may well find around town or general road driving it feels a little awkward and will constantly beg you to let it off the leash.
Agree with that comment. I had an M3 previously and it could be driven slowly without any feeling of ' awkwardness' where as the Z4M with the suspension setup it has and tweeks to the s54 engine just begs to be driven by the scruff of the neck.
It really is a different animal..German TVR..
Peppermint said:
My wife has a Z4C (3.0 Sport) and I a Z4MC.
Our opinion is this... For everyday driving the Z4C's performance is more easily accessible as it produces its maximum torque much lower in the revs, about 2700rpm, so you don't have to work it hard to enjoy its performance. Therefore if it is road thrills and effortless performance you seek the Z4C ticks the box and is deceptively quick and massively enjoyable too, especially if you buy the sport rather than the SE.
The Z4M is a significantly different animal... It has to be revved much harder to access its ultimate performance with max torque being at much higher revs, circa 5000rpm - Once in the sweet spot it is an adrenalin rush that never fails to impress and makes ownership a joy. However on public roads you cannot enjoy its sweet spot for long because of the speeds you end up doing! That makes it quite frustrating a lot of the time.
On the track where you can keep the car in its powerband it makes perfect sense as a performance car and feels much more at home when being driven hard and extended in every gear.
So if track days or adrenalin filled blasts where you rev the car hard are what you seek the Z4M delivers in spades.
But bear in mind you may well find around town or general road driving it feels a little awkward and will constantly beg you to let it off the leash.
We love both our cars but they are very different, having both in the household suits our needs perfectly, the M being the "Beast" we unleash on the weekends.
Good summary.Our opinion is this... For everyday driving the Z4C's performance is more easily accessible as it produces its maximum torque much lower in the revs, about 2700rpm, so you don't have to work it hard to enjoy its performance. Therefore if it is road thrills and effortless performance you seek the Z4C ticks the box and is deceptively quick and massively enjoyable too, especially if you buy the sport rather than the SE.
The Z4M is a significantly different animal... It has to be revved much harder to access its ultimate performance with max torque being at much higher revs, circa 5000rpm - Once in the sweet spot it is an adrenalin rush that never fails to impress and makes ownership a joy. However on public roads you cannot enjoy its sweet spot for long because of the speeds you end up doing! That makes it quite frustrating a lot of the time.
On the track where you can keep the car in its powerband it makes perfect sense as a performance car and feels much more at home when being driven hard and extended in every gear.
So if track days or adrenalin filled blasts where you rev the car hard are what you seek the Z4M delivers in spades.
But bear in mind you may well find around town or general road driving it feels a little awkward and will constantly beg you to let it off the leash.
We love both our cars but they are very different, having both in the household suits our needs perfectly, the M being the "Beast" we unleash on the weekends.
I've got an MR as my only car at the moment. I'll be honest and admit there are days when the suspension and size of the boot do grate, particularly around the potholed suburbs but IMHO these cars work perfectly well as a day to day proposition once you're used to the gearbox and clutch.
There is still plenty of low down torque to get you from A-B and of course plenty of rev range to exploit once you get on the open road. MPG isn't great for me, my average is 23 over the lifetime of the car and aside from some very steady cc motorway runs I wouldn't take claims of over 30 mpg as a realistic proposition for the ZC or ZMC.
Both are great cars!
There is still plenty of low down torque to get you from A-B and of course plenty of rev range to exploit once you get on the open road. MPG isn't great for me, my average is 23 over the lifetime of the car and aside from some very steady cc motorway runs I wouldn't take claims of over 30 mpg as a realistic proposition for the ZC or ZMC.
Both are great cars!
I tested a Z4C a few years ago before I got my Z4MC and did find it quite jittery.
Now I find my other half's mini a much more jittery ride than mine, so I do think the runflats make a difference (or lack of runflats on the M).
Mind you, with the hardness of the suspension, if the M did have runflats it would probably break your spine within 100m....
Now I find my other half's mini a much more jittery ride than mine, so I do think the runflats make a difference (or lack of runflats on the M).
Mind you, with the hardness of the suspension, if the M did have runflats it would probably break your spine within 100m....
The TC is definitely jittery on the M but I've found that CSL wheels do seem to smooth things out slightly. I've heard good reports on third party springs as well but not got around to fitting them. To be honest I keep the TC off most of the time (except if it's raining) the car is fairly predictable once you've discovered its limits (definitely NOT advisable on the road!) and I hate the TC kicking in and spoiling all the fun. It really needs an M mode as a compromise.
0836whimper said:
Peppermint said:
My wife has a Z4C (3.0 Sport) and I a Z4MC....
Interesting. Is one more jittery on normal roads ? Reason I ask is the run flats etc, does the M set-up and non run-flats make a difference ? On which does TC kick in more ?Ta.
M-sports suspension. The Z4M is now running Eibach springs.
In their current guise the ZC has the better ride (less harsh), it is a fantastic balance between sporty handling and comfort. The TC only ever kicks in when pushing hard in the wet, or big throttle openings on tight corner exits in the dry.
My ZM has been honed for better handling for road and track, so the trade-off is a harsher less comfortable ride, but it corners much better than standard as a result.
I turn the DSC off when I want to exploit the cars performance because the TC is way too intrusive and reduces my ability to adjust the attitude of the car on the throttle, mid-corner or corner exit. BMW have clearly calibrated it to be on the safer side of very safe on the ZM!
It is worth mentioning the ZC is significantly improved by ditching the run-flats and putting on some high performance tyres. It will be much less jittery and more importantly the feedback and grip levels improve dramatically. TC is rarely activated and the car becomes even more enjoyable and predictable. The ZC definately deserves it...
Edited by Peppermint on Thursday 3rd June 07:43
Peppermint said:
0836whimper said:
Peppermint said:
My wife has a Z4C (3.0 Sport) and I a Z4MC....
Interesting. Is one more jittery on normal roads ? Reason I ask is the run flats etc, does the M set-up and non run-flats make a difference ? On which does TC kick in more ?Ta.
M-sports suspension. The Z4M is now running Eibach springs.
In their current guise the ZC has the better ride (less harsh), it is a fantastic balance between sporty handling and comfort. The TC only ever kicks in when pushing hard in the wet, or big throttle openings on tight corner exits in the dry.
My ZM has been honed for better handling for road and track, so the trade-off is a harsher less comfortable ride, but it corners much better than standard as a result.
I turn the DSC off when I want to exploit the cars performance because the TC is way too intrusive and reduces my ability to adjust the attitude of the car on the throttle, mid-corner or corner exit. BMW have clearly calibrated it to be on the safer side of very safe on the ZM!
It is worth mentioning the ZC is significantly improved by ditching the run-flats and putting on some high performance tyres. It will be much less jittery and more importantly the feedback and grip levels improve dramatically. TC is rarely activated and the car becomes even more enjoyable and predictable. The ZC definately deserves it...
Edited by Peppermint on Thursday 3rd June 07:43
I notice you mention you have Eiback Springs, is this the 'pro kit'?
Are you using standard shocks with the Eibach springs?
In standard form, I would say the ride comfort isn't great - is this exacerbated by the eibach springs? I don't want to create an undriveable car. I owned a z3m coupe with coilovers and roll bars and by the end the car was a pain to drive on the road - you needed perfectly smooth roads.
Many Thanks
R
Rags,
Yes it is the Eibach Pro-Kit Springs I have on OE shocks, I have also got uprated bushes and have had the geometry adjusted to suit my driving style and purpose (it is weekend fun car that will enjoy the occassional track day too!)... The set-up of my car does make it more challenging on the road and won't be for everyone but it is what I want in order to engage me more than the std set-up.
I certainly wouldn't say it is undriveable on our roads, or even uncomfortable, but it does require committment and skill to exract the best from it and control it, which I like.
Yes it is the Eibach Pro-Kit Springs I have on OE shocks, I have also got uprated bushes and have had the geometry adjusted to suit my driving style and purpose (it is weekend fun car that will enjoy the occassional track day too!)... The set-up of my car does make it more challenging on the road and won't be for everyone but it is what I want in order to engage me more than the std set-up.
I certainly wouldn't say it is undriveable on our roads, or even uncomfortable, but it does require committment and skill to exract the best from it and control it, which I like.
Thanks for all the responses. It seems to back up what I suspected, the Z4C is the better day to day proposition, cheaper and easier to live with, but the M can be worth it for the 20% of the time you're really in the mood and have enough space to use it.
I'm having the coupe serviced and some new tyres, so will see if that freshens it up (grip was rubbish this morn with tc off, exiting dry roundabouts)...
I'm having the coupe serviced and some new tyres, so will see if that freshens it up (grip was rubbish this morn with tc off, exiting dry roundabouts)...
mattpullen64 said:
Thanks for all the responses. It seems to back up what I suspected, the Z4C is the better day to day proposition, cheaper and easier to live with, but the M can be worth it for the 20% of the time you're really in the mood and have enough space to use it.
I'm having the coupe serviced and some new tyres, so will see if that freshens it up (grip was rubbish this morn with tc off, exiting dry roundabouts)...
I think it depends on two thingsI'm having the coupe serviced and some new tyres, so will see if that freshens it up (grip was rubbish this morn with tc off, exiting dry roundabouts)...
1, how you drive your current car, do you find yourself thinking, "This thing could do with more power, better brakes, steering and a diff"
2 Is the amount of money it will cost you to change to a Z4M a worrying sum, only you can decide if it's a stretch or not and worth it
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