Are there any manual M3 CSLs out there?

[Beefmeister]

Okay, I know BMW never made any.

But for me, the gearbox really spoils the CSL for me, having driven one on saturday. It's a shame as the rest of the car was near perfection in my eyes.

Incredible, amazing, wood-inducing engine, with a noise that would make Wagner cry. Beautifully controlled damping, intuitive, communicative steering, awesome speed etc etc.

I just wish it had the normal M3's very nice manual gearbox.

Surely it can't be too hard to convert one, does anyone know if someone has done it already?

[E30M3SE]

Probably be more cost effective to buy a manual CS and fit a carbon air box etc. (maybe)

[Mermaid]

E30M3SE said:

Probably be more cost effective to buy a manual CS and fit a carbon air box etc. (maybe)

Makes more sense, and better daily driver if that is important. And replace the boot-lid for aesthetics, function.

Edited by Mermaid on Monday 14th June 16:19

[Beefmeister]

Yeah i agree. Was just wondering if anyone had done it really...

I suppose it would make the CSL less 'original' so probably ruin the value as well.

They seem to be holding around £30k at the moment, i reckon if you bought one for that, then spent £5k getting it converted to manual it'd probably be worth £25k.

Not good maths...

[Hedgetrimmer]

Beefmeister said:

Yeah i agree. Was just wondering if anyone had done it really...

I suppose it would make the CSL less 'original' so probably ruin the value as well.

They seem to be holding around £30k at the moment, i reckon if you bought one for that, then spent £5k getting it converted to manual it'd probably be worth £25k.

Not good maths...

I ran a csl for a year and the gearbox really ruined it for me. The ride is very poor on country roads which hampered progress as well. It was just too much like a computer game for me. I agree with the cs route instead.

[ferrisbueller]

Double post

Edited by ferrisbueller on Monday 14th June 21:52

[ferrisbueller]

I was talking with a BMW technician last week who has worked on two manual converted CSLs during his career. He's also done 38 big brake conversions on CSLs. That's nearly ten percent of them he's done.

SMG was the deal breaker for me as far as CSL is concerned.

[daz4m]

ferrisbueller said:

I was talking with a BMW technician last week who has worked on two manual converted CSLs during his career. He's also done 38 big brake conversions on CSLs. That's nearly ten percent of them he's done.

SMG was the deal breaker for me as far as CSL is concerned.

Agreed, shame really lets down an otherwise awesome machine. Also see far too many horror stories of SMG related yellow cogs appearing for my liking.

[shim]

daz4m said:

ferrisbueller said:

I was talking with a BMW technician last week who has worked on two manual converted CSLs during his career. He's also done 38 big brake conversions on CSLs. That's nearly ten percent of them he's done.

SMG was the deal breaker for me as far as CSL is concerned.

Agreed, shame really lets down an otherwise awesome machine. Also see far too many horror stories of SMG related yellow cogs appearing for my liking.

best thing about the car imho, superb for track work

(until the cog light comes on)

[Great Pretender]

daz4m said:

ferrisbueller said:

I was talking with a BMW technician last week who has worked on two manual converted CSLs during his career. He's also done 38 big brake conversions on CSLs. That's nearly ten percent of them he's done.

SMG was the deal breaker for me as far as CSL is concerned.

Agreed, shame really lets down an otherwise awesome machine. Also see far too many horror stories of SMG related yellow cogs appearing for my liking.

Don't knock something until you've tried it mon amis

It's not perfect, but once you're used to it (and it takes some getting used to) SMG II makes a lot of sense when you're absolutely on it. Conversely, the drive to work in Auto mode this morning was as relaxing as could be.

As far as conversions are concerned, I believe it's possible to pull the 'box and associated ancillaries quite cost effectively; there's a chap up these parts who knows how to do it. In effect, you'd be mad to convert a CS into a 'CSL' due to the cost of upgrade, whereas the parts/labour required for a manual CSL conversion would fall below the £1k mark.

Having been a life-long manual pervert, I was sceptical of SMG, but now I've actually driven one (as opposed to virtually driving one on an internet forum like some of you), I love it

Funny old world.

[ferrisbueller]

Great Pretender said:

daz4m said:

ferrisbueller said:

I was talking with a BMW technician last week who has worked on two manual converted CSLs during his career. He's also done 38 big brake conversions on CSLs. That's nearly ten percent of them he's done.

SMG was the deal breaker for me as far as CSL is concerned.

Agreed, shame really lets down an otherwise awesome machine. Also see far too many horror stories of SMG related yellow cogs appearing for my liking.

Don't knock something until you've tried it mon amis

It's not perfect, but once you're used to it (and it takes some getting used to) SMG II makes a lot of sense when you're absolutely on it. Conversely, the drive to work in Auto mode this morning was as relaxing as could be.

As far as conversions are concerned, I believe it's possible to pull the 'box and associated ancillaries quite cost effectively; there's a chap up these parts who knows how to do it. In effect, you'd be mad to convert a CS into a 'CSL' due to the cost of upgrade, whereas the parts/labour required for a manual CSL conversion would fall below the £1k mark.

Having been a life-long manual pervert, I was sceptical of SMG, but now I've actually driven one (as opposed to virtually driving one on an internet forum like some of you), I love it

Funny old world.

Tried it, didn't like it. DCT makes it look and feel positively dim, but even then I'd only spec that from a residuals perspective.

[daz4m]

ferrisbueller said:

Great Pretender said:

daz4m said:

ferrisbueller said:

I was talking with a BMW technician last week who has worked on two manual converted CSLs during his career. He's also done 38 big brake conversions on CSLs. That's nearly ten percent of them he's done.

SMG was the deal breaker for me as far as CSL is concerned.

Agreed, shame really lets down an otherwise awesome machine. Also see far too many horror stories of SMG related yellow cogs appearing for my liking.

Don't knock something until you've tried it mon amis

It's not perfect, but once you're used to it (and it takes some getting used to) SMG II makes a lot of sense when you're absolutely on it. Conversely, the drive to work in Auto mode this morning was as relaxing as could be.

As far as conversions are concerned, I believe it's possible to pull the 'box and associated ancillaries quite cost effectively; there's a chap up these parts who knows how to do it. In effect, you'd be mad to convert a CS into a 'CSL' due to the cost of upgrade, whereas the parts/labour required for a manual CSL conversion would fall below the £1k mark.

Having been a life-long manual pervert, I was sceptical of SMG, but now I've actually driven one (as opposed to virtually driving one on an internet forum like some of you), I love it

Funny old world.

Tried it, didn't like it. DCT makes it look and feel positively dim, but even then I'd only spec that from a residuals perspective.

I didn't even like DCT on the E92 I tried, it's just not for me so SMG stands no chance.

[Great Pretender]

ferrisbueller said:

Great Pretender said:

daz4m said:

ferrisbueller said:

I was talking with a BMW technician last week who has worked on two manual converted CSLs during his career. He's also done 38 big brake conversions on CSLs. That's nearly ten percent of them he's done.

SMG was the deal breaker for me as far as CSL is concerned.

Agreed, shame really lets down an otherwise awesome machine. Also see far too many horror stories of SMG related yellow cogs appearing for my liking.

Don't knock something until you've tried it mon amis

It's not perfect, but once you're used to it (and it takes some getting used to) SMG II makes a lot of sense when you're absolutely on it. Conversely, the drive to work in Auto mode this morning was as relaxing as could be.

As far as conversions are concerned, I believe it's possible to pull the 'box and associated ancillaries quite cost effectively; there's a chap up these parts who knows how to do it. In effect, you'd be mad to convert a CS into a 'CSL' due to the cost of upgrade, whereas the parts/labour required for a manual CSL conversion would fall below the £1k mark.

Having been a life-long manual pervert, I was sceptical of SMG, but now I've actually driven one (as opposed to virtually driving one on an internet forum like some of you), I love it

Funny old world.

Tried it, didn't like it. DCT makes it look and feel positively dim, but even then I'd only spec that from a residuals perspective.

Agreed, but DCT technology is considerably newer, in the same way that a carb fed Alfa Giulietta is desperately old fashioned compared with modern fuel injection; doesn't stop you wanting one though.

Bet yes, each to their own.

[Beefmeister]

'Ello GP. Obviously i respect your opinion (especially considering your latest purchase), but i suppose this all comes down to the age old manual vs paddle shift arguement.

The only paddle shift boxes i've driven that i liked were:

LP560/4 Spyder eGear - Just about acceptable. Still fluffed it a couple of times though.

Fezza California - seamless, perfect, amazing.

The 458 is going to be stunning with that 'box, and i don't blame them for not offering the manual with it. The 458 is a technological tour de force, so having the most advanced gearbox suits it well.

However if Lambo stopped offering a mnaual, that would be a disaster.

Went slightly off topic there....


I didn't realise it would be as low at £1000 to get one converted. That has properly screwed me up now...


What's the concensus on ressiduals - do we think a manual CSL (done properly) would actually sell easier? Are there a lot of people who would want one?

[Great Pretender]

Beefmeister said:

What's the concensus on ressiduals - do we think a manual CSL (done properly) would actually sell easier? Are there a lot of people who would want one?

D'y'know what? I'm not so sure. IMO the SMG makes the car. I can't quite explain it, but somehow a manual wouldn't seem right. I wonder how many 360 CS owners wish they had a proper manual box?

Ask me that again when I get the 'yellow cog' though...

[Beefmeister]

Great Pretender said:

Beefmeister said:

What's the concensus on ressiduals - do we think a manual CSL (done properly) would actually sell easier? Are there a lot of people who would want one?

D'y'know what? I'm not so sure. IMO the SMG makes the car. I can't quite explain it, but somehow a manual wouldn't seem right. I wonder how many 360 CS owners wish they had a proper manual box?

Ask me that again when I get the 'yellow cog' though...

I know of two Stradale's which have been converted to manual, but that's in Europe. Not sure about the UK.

I think there would be a market for a manual CSL here on Pistonheads, but it all comes down to the right person wanting that car, at that time.

Tricky.

[Great Pretender]

Beefmeister said:

Great Pretender said:

Beefmeister said:

What's the concensus on ressiduals - do we think a manual CSL (done properly) would actually sell easier? Are there a lot of people who would want one?

D'y'know what? I'm not so sure. IMO the SMG makes the car. I can't quite explain it, but somehow a manual wouldn't seem right. I wonder how many 360 CS owners wish they had a proper manual box?

Ask me that again when I get the 'yellow cog' though...

I know of two Stradale's which have been converted to manual, but that's in Europe. Not sure about the UK.

I think there would be a market for a manual CSL here on Pistonheads, but it all comes down to the right person wanting that car, at that time.

Tricky.

Well it's certainly something I'll bear in mind. Perhaps the novelty of the SMG will wear off and I'll end up hating it. For now though, I love it

[Mermaid]

Great Pretender said:

Beefmeister said:

What's the concensus on ressiduals - do we think a manual CSL (done properly) would actually sell easier? Are there a lot of people who would want one?

D'y'know what? I'm not so sure. IMO the SMG makes the car. I can't quite explain it, but somehow a manual wouldn't seem right.

BMW chose to make it SMG - what was their thinking at the time?

Edited by Mermaid on Tuesday 15th June 10:40

[Beefmeister]

I believe BMW's thinking was that the CSL is a track/fast road car, and that the driver should have their hands on the wheel as much as possible.

I see where they're coming from, but for me, even on track, getting that heel and toe just right as i brake into Druids, set the car up, clip the apex and power out of the bend is just

[Mermaid]

Beefmeister said:

I believe BMW's thinking was that the CSL is a track/fast road car, and that the driver should have their hands on the wheel as much as possible.

I see where they're coming from, but for me, even on track, getting that heel and toe just right as i brake into Druids, set the car up, clip the apex and power out of the bend is just

Fair enough. The CSL made 7:50 at the 'Ring. Would it have been quicker with a manual box, or is this just nostalgia for a manual box. A manual CSL IMO would be different, not better.

Having said that, can you imagine an E30 M3 with an auto/smg box?