Anyone know this M3 at Munich Legends?

[toasty]

http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/1792447.htm

Any info good or bad would be welcome.

[belleair302]

Don't know the car but the drivers seat needs to be recovered and the car although a good colour combination and with the brakes and wheels still looks somewhat expensive. 2 grand less and it may be worth a punt after a full underbody and paint depth inspection.

[toasty]

There are cheaper ones out there but they always seem to have a dodgy interior, high mileage or misery spec.

I'm wondering whether the upgraded brakes indicate that this has been tracked on a regular basis.

[Rich_W]

Here's some advice. Don't buy from them. I speak from experience of them!

[Beardy10]

Rich_W said:

Here's some advice. Don't buy from them. I speak from experience of them!

I've seen quite a lot of people say this about them....was this under the old management ? From what I have read the management has changed. Only asking as I hope to be buying an E30 M3 of some sort in the next year or so (I know they ask huge money). From what I can make out the old Munich Legends management now run "Classic Heroes".

[toasty]

Beardy10 said:

Rich_W said:

Here's some advice. Don't buy from them. I speak from experience of them!

I've seen quite a lot of people say this about them....was this under the old management ? From what I have read the management has changed. Only asking as I hope to be buying an E30 M3 of some sort in the next year or so (I know they ask huge money). From what I can make out the old Munich Legends management now run "Classic Heroes".

I'd be interested to know your experience, especially if it's with the new management, so please PM me if you can. I saw the car today and it seemed pretty good if slightly untidy in the paintwork area.

[belleair302]

Munich Legends were...not are, a company where you either got on with Barney and Tony or you didnt. They were in business to sell cars and make money....not to make customers feel good. Like any dealership, going in with your eyes open is a sensible idea and it was always worth looking at not just the history of your target but also the underside, shutlines and problem areas and the bills spent by both the previous owners and ML's Hit List. Many customers have had amazing service from ML, some have been somewhat let down, but the same can be said for the top Ferrari specialists in the UK and also a number of main dealers selling Aston Martins and Lexus.

Barney and Tony have moved on, the garage is now under new ownership and management. Some of the staff are still there some have moved away. My view is simple....go and look at the car, drive it from cold, listen carefully, get it up on a ramp and look at the underside, open the bonnet and bootlid, check for accident damage, check the history and ask for bills. If you are happy after that and the car looks and drives well then make them on offer. Times are hard so they may be more than Happy to negotiate. Get a warranty too from ML if you buy covering the car bumper to bumper....and enjoy your purchase.

I have been to the garage as a customer when it was under the old owners and the new, and never had a problem. The bills were not silly and the work was professional. I also know people who did not have such a good experience but that is also possible with surgeons, accountants and lawyers!!!

Edited by belleair302 on Saturday 31st July 23:43

[Windymiller]

Munich Legends said:

uprated M3 CSL Brakes, giving the car incredible stopping power.

Hmm.... the CSL has slightly larger discs grabbed by the same calipers (spaced out) as a standard M3... when I was shopping around for a CSL/M3 I didn't notice any difference between them.



ps, I bought a 20,000 miles '04 SMG in carbon black with imola red leather for £20k nearly 2 years ago from an indy... and that was top book back then!

[toasty]

Windymiller said:

Munich Legends said:

uprated M3 CSL Brakes, giving the car incredible stopping power.

Hmm.... the CSL has slightly larger discs grabbed by the same calipers (spaced out) as a standard M3... when I was shopping around for a CSL/M3 I didn't notice any difference between them.

ps, I bought a 20,000 miles '04 SMG in carbon black with imola red leather for £20k nearly 2 years ago from an indy... and that was top book back then!

The salesman didn't notice any difference between them either when I asked him about the brakes. They looked pretty standard to me.

I hope there would be some room for negotiation on the price, I'd be p/exing my Z4 if I were to go for it and if they want top book, so would I. I've been looking for some time for M3s (building up funds) and prices have remained firm for fully loaded low mileage examples.

I'm also going to have a look at the black M at Trevor Jones this week if it's still there for comparison (and any others that pop up, I'm in no real hurry).

[MPowerMark]

I would be put off by the simple fact they can't even advertise the car properly. A standard e46 M3 getting to 60mph in 4.8secs? really? i don't think so! it's not an e92 M3.

Edited by MPowerMark on Sunday 1st August 10:14

[Rich_W]

My experience was on the servicing side predominately. And this was when the Halses were involved. However, to be told that the reason my "freshly rebuilt" (in under a day including removal and refitting btw!) dogleg box didn't go into 1st gear when cold was because "they all do that" kinda makes me think that ANYONE who was there before and is still there in that workshop shouldn't be working on these cars! Oh and they charged me £1100 for that privelige. Subsequently found out that the dog legs aren't that much different and I could have had a proper rebuild for half of that! In fact it's debateable whether I ACTUALLY needed a rebuild at all.

Plus there was the various conversations I had with them prior to buying a car. Basically telling me that my budget couldn't possibly get me a good car (which I subsequently did) and that I should buy the rusty, D reg, white, full of condensation POS in front of me instead for £5k more. He's a condecending piece of work. I realy wish I'd walked off with the set of keys I found (SportEvo) on the floor out the back of their unit once instead of making the effort to hand them in to them. You'd think from their reaction I was trying to steal the car!

Or the infamous 100K timing chain thing they invented to fleece owners.

Or the fact that a "sale or Return" commision car lost it's rare uprated LSD whilst in their "care"

Edited by Rich_W on Sunday 1st August 17:31

[pikeyboy]

Rich_W said:

My experience was on the servicing side predominately. And this was when the Halses were involved. However, to be told that the reason my "freshly rebuilt" (in under a day including removal and refitting btw!) dogleg box didn't go into 1st gear when cold was because "they all do that" kinda makes me think that ANYONE who was there before and is still there in that workshop shouldn't be working on these cars! Oh and they charged me £1100 for that privelige. Subsequently found out that the dog legs aren't that much different and I could have had a proper rebuild for half of that! In fact it's debateable whether I ACTUALLY needed a rebuild at all.

Plus there was the various conversations I had with them prior to buying a car. Basically telling me that my budget couldn't possibly get me a good car (which I subsequently did) and that I should buy the rusty, D reg, white, full of condensation POS in front of me instead for £5k more. He's a condecending piece of work. I realy wish I'd walked off with the set of keys I found (SportEvo) on the floor out the back of their unit once instead of making the effort to hand them in to them. You'd think from their reaction I was trying to steal the car!

Or the infamous 100K timing chain thing they invented to fleece owners.

Or the fact that a "sale or Return" commision car lost it's rare uprated LSD whilst in their "care"

Edited by Rich_W on Sunday 1st August 17:31

I also had a non positive experience with ML under the previous owners. When I had my e30 m3 I found nigel mosley or bexley much better places.

[Beardy10]

Rich_W said:

Or the fact that a "sale or Return" commision car lost it's rare uprated LSD whilst in their "care"

Bad service is one thing...outright theft is just unbelievable!

[toasty]

Thanks for the replies, it does appear that ML has had a checkered history but no specific complaints about the current owners (except for the slightly inventive advertisement).

ML are too far from home to think about using them for servicing and so I'd probably look at Warranty Direct for a warranty and my local BMW dealer for servicing.

I'll tread carefully but am still tempted by this particular car unless any stories appear of it being a known heavily thrashed track beast or wreck.

That said, there's no hurry and there's plenty of others to see.

[Rich_W]

toasty said:

Thanks for the replies, it does appear that ML has had a checkered history but no specific complaints about the current owners (except for the slightly inventive advertisement).

ML are too far from home to think about using them for servicing and so I'd probably look at Warranty Direct for a warranty and my local BMW dealer for servicing.

I'll tread carefully but am still tempted by this particular car unless any stories appear of it being a known heavily thrashed track beast or wreck.

That said, there's no hurry and there's plenty of others to see.

Off topic slightly. The company I work for had a car come in recently. Turbo was very noisy. Warranty Direct authorised removal of the unit so they could "inspect it" When our man took it off found that the shaft had excessive movement. Waited for a week whilst WD could be bothered to turn up. Guy came down, looked at the turbo. Made some phonecalls. Looked like he had no idea what he was looking at. Then went away again.

Few days later they tell us they will not authorise a new unit and that they think it will be fine if the oil is cleaned off the blades. Long story short, actual owner of the car, accuses us of trying to rip them (WD) off and that they trust the warranty company more than the VW main dealer. When we said, "Ok we'll do as they say but when it doens't cure it what happens then?" they say we will just "sabbotage the unit so that it looks like we were right"

Now I realise why these warranty companies are always busy. The people buying their "product" are retards.

[Paul_M3]

MPowerMark said:

I would be put off by the simple fact they can't even advertise the car properly. A standard e46 M3 getting to 60mph in 4.8secs? really? i don't think so! it's not an e92 M3.

Edited by MPowerMark on Sunday 1st August 10:14

I have often seen 4.8 seconds stated as BMW's official figure for 0 - 60 mph. They have probably seen it on the net and copied it.
(I know the handbook states 0 - 62mph as 5.2 seconds, but I'm not sure if this needs a change into 3rd gear)

[Porscheplayer]

Paul_M3 said:

MPowerMark said:

I would be put off by the simple fact they can't even advertise the car properly. A standard e46 M3 getting to 60mph in 4.8secs? really? i don't think so! it's not an e92 M3.

Edited by MPowerMark on Sunday 1st August 10:14

I have often seen 4.8 seconds stated as BMW's official figure for 0 - 60 mph. They have probably seen it on the net and copied it.
(I know the handbook states 0 - 62mph as 5.2 seconds, but I'm not sure if this needs a change into 3rd gear)

Not to be rude, but does it matter in the real world, 60 mph is only about a third of the M3 derestricted top speed and tells you very little about the cars true performance. 0-125 is where it's at.

[BountyHunter]

Porscheplayer said:

Not to be rude, but does it matter in the real world, 60 mph is only about a third of the M3 derestricted top speed and tells you very little about the cars true performance. 0-125 is where it's at.

not to be rude but no 0 - anything tells you a great deal tbh.

a better test would be 40 - 100 trhough the gears or something like that

[Paul_M3]

Porscheplayer said:

Paul_M3 said:

MPowerMark said:

I would be put off by the simple fact they can't even advertise the car properly. A standard e46 M3 getting to 60mph in 4.8secs? really? i don't think so! it's not an e92 M3.

Edited by MPowerMark on Sunday 1st August 10:14

I have often seen 4.8 seconds stated as BMW's official figure for 0 - 60 mph. They have probably seen it on the net and copied it.
(I know the handbook states 0 - 62mph as 5.2 seconds, but I'm not sure if this needs a change into 3rd gear)

Not to be rude, but does it matter in the real world, 60 mph is only about a third of the M3 derestricted top speed and tells you very little about the cars true performance. 0-125 is where it's at.

You're not being rude, just completely missing the point.
The issue was only raised as MPowerMark thought the figure they were publishing was a lie and would be put off by this.

Whether it's a useful figure or not is besides the point.
(I personally think 50 - 100 would be the single most useful figure. Real world overtaking speeds. )

[MPowerMark]

Well said Paul.