Talk to me about BMW Z3M Coupes...
Discussion
After a spot of window shopping in the past, I've now agreed a sale on my current fun car, so I am actively looking for a replacement. I want something rather more practical (than the outgoing Caterham!) with the potential to cover long distances and carry a certain amount of luggage (by sports car standards).
I have to be honest I've never even sat in one, but the idea of a BMW Z3M Coupe quite appeals. I've got around £10k to spend, which I feared might be a bit marginal for a decent example, but looking at the classifieds it seems I might be okay?
Various posts on here suggest they can be very expensive to maintain and rather unpredictable on the limit, is this unfair?
Most - certainly in my budget - seem to be approaching 100,000 miles now. Are any major components likely to be reaching the end of their life at that stage? Are engine rebuilds, for example, likely to be due? I presume an example of that mileage will need to have had its bushes and dampers replaced to handle as it would have done from the factory?
Also, what's the boot space like? I know it's not as big inside as the Breadvan body style might suggest, but do you think you could get a suitcase in there? I can actually be very(!) specific here as it's a rigid baritone sax case to be precise, that's 45x9x16 inches - would that be too long to fit across a Z3M boot do you reckon?
Any other thoughts or recommendations? I'd be particularly interested to hear from anyone who's also had a Porsche 968, Lotus Excel or TVR Chimaera to compare the running costs and ownership experience.
I have to be honest I've never even sat in one, but the idea of a BMW Z3M Coupe quite appeals. I've got around £10k to spend, which I feared might be a bit marginal for a decent example, but looking at the classifieds it seems I might be okay?
Various posts on here suggest they can be very expensive to maintain and rather unpredictable on the limit, is this unfair?
Most - certainly in my budget - seem to be approaching 100,000 miles now. Are any major components likely to be reaching the end of their life at that stage? Are engine rebuilds, for example, likely to be due? I presume an example of that mileage will need to have had its bushes and dampers replaced to handle as it would have done from the factory?
Also, what's the boot space like? I know it's not as big inside as the Breadvan body style might suggest, but do you think you could get a suitcase in there? I can actually be very(!) specific here as it's a rigid baritone sax case to be precise, that's 45x9x16 inches - would that be too long to fit across a Z3M boot do you reckon?
Any other thoughts or recommendations? I'd be particularly interested to hear from anyone who's also had a Porsche 968, Lotus Excel or TVR Chimaera to compare the running costs and ownership experience.
Edited by Chris71 on Tuesday 12th October 11:55
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a... might be useful.
Chris71 said:
Also, what's the boot space like? I know it's not as big inside as the Breadvan body style might suggest, but do you think you could get a suitcase in there? I can actually be very(!) specific here as it's a rigid baritone sax case to be precise, that's 45x9x16 inches - would that be too long to fit across a Z3M boot do you reckon?
Don't know about the BMs, but the Sax will fit in a Nissan Z, either 350 or 370. Just another alternative, you will get a lot newer with alot lower miles for your mulah too.Edited by Chris71 on Tuesday 12th October 11:55
Chris71 said:
I have to be honest I've never even sat in one, but the idea of a BMW Z3M Coupe quite appeals. I've got around £10k to spend, which I feared might be a bit marginal for a decent example, but looking at the classifieds it seems I might be okay?
10K will be the bottom of the prices, but 13k will get a much younger and better nick machine
Various posts on here suggest they can be very expensive to maintain and rather unpredictable on the limit, is this unfair?
Servicing is BMW prices (Insp 2 c£650) plenty of good indys to do this. General maintainace repair is reasonable using OEM parts at an Indy. Early cars have no traction control and are hairy if you on't treat them with respect. A few sensible mods (see z3mcoupe.cm) makes them more predictable and traction control can be retro fitted. But with 321bhp, large tyre and a engine in the front wet weather hooning is entertaining to say the least!
Most - certainly in my budget - seem to be approaching 100,000 miles now. Are any major components likely to be reaching the end of their life at that stage? Are engine rebuilds, for example, likely to be due? I presume an example of that mileage will need to have had its bushes and dampers replaced to handle as it would have done from the factory?
Vanos is your main issue, if it hasn't been replaced at least change the bolts (again details at z3mcoupe.com)Other issues are top mounts, seat rails, alarms and boot locks, all easily replaceable. The engines are reliable if well serviced 've heard of 172,000 on original Vanos.
Also, what's the boot space like? I know it's not as big inside as the Breadvan body style might suggest, but do you think you could get a suitcase in there? I can actually be very(!) specific here as it's a rigid baritone sax case to be precise, that's 45x9x16 inches - would that be too long to fit across a Z3M boot do you reckon?
That should be fine (I'll go measure it in a minute), but it is not huge, think Ford focus boot.
Any other thoughts or recommendations? I'd be particularly interested to hear from anyone who's also had a Porsche 968, Lotus Excel or TVR Chimaera to compare the running costs and ownership experience.
the Breadvan is unique, uncompromising and brutal,seriously quick (Evo had one to 60 in 4.9) cramped, bonkers, get one!
Edited by sday12 on Tuesday 12th October 12:11
Chris71 said:
After a spot of window shopping in the past, I've now agreed a sale on my current fun car, so I am actively looking for a replacement. I want something rather more practical (than the outgoing Caterham!) with the potential to cover long distances and carry a certain amount of luggage (by sports car standards).
I have to be honest I've never even sat in one, but the idea of a BMW Z3M Coupe quite appeals. I've got around £10k to spend, which I feared might be a bit marginal for a decent example, but looking at the classifieds it seems I might be okay?
Various posts on here suggest they can be very expensive to maintain and rather unpredictable on the limit, is this unfair?
Most - certainly in my budget - seem to be approaching 100,000 miles now. Are any major components likely to be reaching the end of their life at that stage? Are engine rebuilds, for example, likely to be due? I presume an example of that mileage will need to have had its bushes and dampers replaced to handle as it would have done from the factory?
Also, what's the boot space like? I know it's not as big inside as the Breadvan body style might suggest, but do you think you could get a suitcase in there? I can actually be very(!) specific here as it's a rigid baritone sax case to be precise, that's 45x9x16 inches - would that be too long to fit across a Z3M boot do you reckon?
Any other thoughts or recommendations? I'd be particularly interested to hear from anyone who's also had a Porsche 968, Lotus Excel or TVR Chimaera to compare the running costs and ownership experience.
Budget?I have to be honest I've never even sat in one, but the idea of a BMW Z3M Coupe quite appeals. I've got around £10k to spend, which I feared might be a bit marginal for a decent example, but looking at the classifieds it seems I might be okay?
Various posts on here suggest they can be very expensive to maintain and rather unpredictable on the limit, is this unfair?
Most - certainly in my budget - seem to be approaching 100,000 miles now. Are any major components likely to be reaching the end of their life at that stage? Are engine rebuilds, for example, likely to be due? I presume an example of that mileage will need to have had its bushes and dampers replaced to handle as it would have done from the factory?
Also, what's the boot space like? I know it's not as big inside as the Breadvan body style might suggest, but do you think you could get a suitcase in there? I can actually be very(!) specific here as it's a rigid baritone sax case to be precise, that's 45x9x16 inches - would that be too long to fit across a Z3M boot do you reckon?
Any other thoughts or recommendations? I'd be particularly interested to hear from anyone who's also had a Porsche 968, Lotus Excel or TVR Chimaera to compare the running costs and ownership experience.
Edited by Chris71 on Tuesday 12th October 11:55
edo said:
Chris71 said:
After a spot of window shopping in the past, I've now agreed a sale on my current fun car, so I am actively looking for a replacement. I want something rather more practical (than the outgoing Caterham!) with the potential to cover long distances and carry a certain amount of luggage (by sports car standards).
I have to be honest I've never even sat in one, but the idea of a BMW Z3M Coupe quite appeals. I've got around £10k to spend, which I feared might be a bit marginal for a decent example, but looking at the classifieds it seems I might be okay?
Various posts on here suggest they can be very expensive to maintain and rather unpredictable on the limit, is this unfair?
Most - certainly in my budget - seem to be approaching 100,000 miles now. Are any major components likely to be reaching the end of their life at that stage? Are engine rebuilds, for example, likely to be due? I presume an example of that mileage will need to have had its bushes and dampers replaced to handle as it would have done from the factory?
Also, what's the boot space like? I know it's not as big inside as the Breadvan body style might suggest, but do you think you could get a suitcase in there? I can actually be very(!) specific here as it's a rigid baritone sax case to be precise, that's 45x9x16 inches - would that be too long to fit across a Z3M boot do you reckon?
Any other thoughts or recommendations? I'd be particularly interested to hear from anyone who's also had a Porsche 968, Lotus Excel or TVR Chimaera to compare the running costs and ownership experience.
Budget?I have to be honest I've never even sat in one, but the idea of a BMW Z3M Coupe quite appeals. I've got around £10k to spend, which I feared might be a bit marginal for a decent example, but looking at the classifieds it seems I might be okay?
Various posts on here suggest they can be very expensive to maintain and rather unpredictable on the limit, is this unfair?
Most - certainly in my budget - seem to be approaching 100,000 miles now. Are any major components likely to be reaching the end of their life at that stage? Are engine rebuilds, for example, likely to be due? I presume an example of that mileage will need to have had its bushes and dampers replaced to handle as it would have done from the factory?
Also, what's the boot space like? I know it's not as big inside as the Breadvan body style might suggest, but do you think you could get a suitcase in there? I can actually be very(!) specific here as it's a rigid baritone sax case to be precise, that's 45x9x16 inches - would that be too long to fit across a Z3M boot do you reckon?
Any other thoughts or recommendations? I'd be particularly interested to hear from anyone who's also had a Porsche 968, Lotus Excel or TVR Chimaera to compare the running costs and ownership experience.
Edited by Chris71 on Tuesday 12th October 11:55
illmonkey said:
edo said:
Chris71 said:
After a spot of window shopping in the past, I've now agreed a sale on my current fun car, so I am actively looking for a replacement. I want something rather more practical (than the outgoing Caterham!) with the potential to cover long distances and carry a certain amount of luggage (by sports car standards).
I have to be honest I've never even sat in one, but the idea of a BMW Z3M Coupe quite appeals. I've got around £10k to spend, which I feared might be a bit marginal for a decent example, but looking at the classifieds it seems I might be okay?
Various posts on here suggest they can be very expensive to maintain and rather unpredictable on the limit, is this unfair?
Most - certainly in my budget - seem to be approaching 100,000 miles now. Are any major components likely to be reaching the end of their life at that stage? Are engine rebuilds, for example, likely to be due? I presume an example of that mileage will need to have had its bushes and dampers replaced to handle as it would have done from the factory?
Also, what's the boot space like? I know it's not as big inside as the Breadvan body style might suggest, but do you think you could get a suitcase in there? I can actually be very(!) specific here as it's a rigid baritone sax case to be precise, that's 45x9x16 inches - would that be too long to fit across a Z3M boot do you reckon?
Any other thoughts or recommendations? I'd be particularly interested to hear from anyone who's also had a Porsche 968, Lotus Excel or TVR Chimaera to compare the running costs and ownership experience.
Budget?I have to be honest I've never even sat in one, but the idea of a BMW Z3M Coupe quite appeals. I've got around £10k to spend, which I feared might be a bit marginal for a decent example, but looking at the classifieds it seems I might be okay?
Various posts on here suggest they can be very expensive to maintain and rather unpredictable on the limit, is this unfair?
Most - certainly in my budget - seem to be approaching 100,000 miles now. Are any major components likely to be reaching the end of their life at that stage? Are engine rebuilds, for example, likely to be due? I presume an example of that mileage will need to have had its bushes and dampers replaced to handle as it would have done from the factory?
Also, what's the boot space like? I know it's not as big inside as the Breadvan body style might suggest, but do you think you could get a suitcase in there? I can actually be very(!) specific here as it's a rigid baritone sax case to be precise, that's 45x9x16 inches - would that be too long to fit across a Z3M boot do you reckon?
Any other thoughts or recommendations? I'd be particularly interested to hear from anyone who's also had a Porsche 968, Lotus Excel or TVR Chimaera to compare the running costs and ownership experience.
Edited by Chris71 on Tuesday 12th October 11:55
I dont think your budget is big enough for a breadvan personally.
My wife and I had a Chim 450.
Loved it - she used it every day to commute (10 miles each way), and it gave us very little trouble.
Boot is massive for such a car, and a noise to die for.
Good time of year to be buying one too. Get a 98 onwards they have some enhancements over the earlier cars. 450 regarded as a good compromise - bit more go than the 4.0, and 5.0 can be a bit temperamental - but as with all tvr's there are good and bad in all engine sizes.
These look nice:
http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/2148728.htm
or
http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/2063056.htm
My wife and I had a Chim 450.
Loved it - she used it every day to commute (10 miles each way), and it gave us very little trouble.
Boot is massive for such a car, and a noise to die for.
Good time of year to be buying one too. Get a 98 onwards they have some enhancements over the earlier cars. 450 regarded as a good compromise - bit more go than the 4.0, and 5.0 can be a bit temperamental - but as with all tvr's there are good and bad in all engine sizes.
These look nice:
http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/2148728.htm
or
http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/2063056.htm
sday12 said:
Sorry, your Sax won't fit. approx 38" across in the boot/hatch.
Doh! Guessing there's not likely to be enough room to stick it diagonally or anything? Thanks for the swift response though, it is very useful to know.With regards budget that could have been upped a little. I've probably got about £15k in total for the car and the first year's insurance/maintenance.
edo said:
I dont think your budget is big enough for a breadvan personally.
My wife and I had a Chim 450.
Loved it - she used it every day to commute (10 miles each way), and it gave us very little trouble.
Boot is massive for such a car, and a noise to die for.
Good time of year to be buying one too. Get a 98 onwards they have some enhancements over the earlier cars. 450 regarded as a good compromise - bit more go than the 4.0, and 5.0 can be a bit temperamental - but as with all tvr's there are good and bad in all engine sizes.
These look nice:
http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/2148728.htm
or
http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/2063056.htm
Yep, a Chim is a definite possibility. I've had a TVR in the past and vowed I would go back. My wife and I had a Chim 450.
Loved it - she used it every day to commute (10 miles each way), and it gave us very little trouble.
Boot is massive for such a car, and a noise to die for.
Good time of year to be buying one too. Get a 98 onwards they have some enhancements over the earlier cars. 450 regarded as a good compromise - bit more go than the 4.0, and 5.0 can be a bit temperamental - but as with all tvr's there are good and bad in all engine sizes.
These look nice:
http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/2148728.htm
or
http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/2063056.htm
That said, with the Z3M looking a bit marginal on space the Excel is probably the current favourite - similar hand-built character to the TVR (for better or for worse!) a bit more practical and likely to attract a little less attention parked around town. I do like to drive quite enthusiastically and I wonder if however-many-hundred lbft of torque going through big chunky tyres on the Chim might demand rather more concentration than a 4 cylinder Lotus. There's also the matter of price - they seem to have gone up quite a bit recently and £10,000 is now quite average 400 money, while it was quite a smart 450/500 last winter.
That sounds rather negative but I don't mean it to. The Chim is a very real possibility, I'm just trying to play devil's advocate before I hear the noise and see the looks and go a little bit wobbly.
Edited by Chris71 on Tuesday 12th October 12:47
Ive had a 968CS and while it was as good as everyone says compared to a M Coupe it is lacking on character. The 3.0 4cyl is very torquey and smooth but sounds dull without a sports exhaust. Mine was a CS so had no eletric windows or boot release, the Sport is a better choice because it comes with added luxurys and rear seats.
The handling was excellent and day to day running costs were not too bad but they can go wrong in a big way. Mine needed a new clutch, head gasket went, the cam went and various other odds and sods which cost a fortune.
Drive all the cars on your list but if I was looking again that engine in the M Coupe would be a major selling point for me
The handling was excellent and day to day running costs were not too bad but they can go wrong in a big way. Mine needed a new clutch, head gasket went, the cam went and various other odds and sods which cost a fortune.
Drive all the cars on your list but if I was looking again that engine in the M Coupe would be a major selling point for me
CarbonBlackM5 said:
Ive had a 968CS and while it was as good as everyone says compared to a M Coupe it is lacking on character. The 3.0 4cyl is very torquey and smooth but sounds dull without a sports exhaust.
I know. It's a constant source of annoyance to me that Porsche decided to make a car that's so practical, so beautifully balanced and so reliable, but also so dull. If the 968 had a nice six cylinder or V8 in there we wouldn't be having this conversation. 
Chris71 said:
sday12 said:
Sorry, your Sax won't fit. approx 38" across in the boot/hatch.
Doh! Guessing there's not likely to be enough room to stick it diagonally or anything? Thanks for the swift response though, it is very useful to know.sday12 said:
Chris71 said:
sday12 said:
Sorry, your Sax won't fit. approx 38" across in the boot/hatch.
Doh! Guessing there's not likely to be enough room to stick it diagonally or anything? Thanks for the swift response though, it is very useful to know.Chris71 said:
sday12 said:
Chris71 said:
sday12 said:
Sorry, your Sax won't fit. approx 38" across in the boot/hatch.
Doh! Guessing there's not likely to be enough room to stick it diagonally or anything? Thanks for the swift response though, it is very useful to know.Just bought another z3mc. Love it. Had a z4mc before it and where the z4 is the faster, better car all round, nothing turns heads and evokes conversation like the z3mc!
Get an s54 if you can afford it, the engine is much better all round.
(Before all you s50 boys bite my head off, I have an s50!)
Oh and I second the thoughts on Hexagon. Easily the snootiest bunch of
out there. I've tried to buy cars there twice. First a z3m and the deal fell through as they wanted £500 to deliver to Glasgow! Second an m£ CSL and they offered an insulting trade in on my z4mc, and I mean pants down time insulting. Oh dear. In a way I sort of hoped when I tried the pint sized Z3M it'd be too small and that would at least cross one car off the list, but it wasn't.
I went round to see one last night. The owner (an active member of the Z3M forum) was incredibly helpful and very informative. Amongst other things he let me try out the crucial saxophone test, and providing you thread it in length ways and then twist in round to sit diagonally with one end sitting up on the luggage guard then it does just about fit. This makes the decision a whole lot harder than it was going to be with the Z3M crossed off the list.
I liked the interior - it's amazing how special a Z3 interior can be made to feel with a few bits of chrome and some nice seats, it really does feel every bit the pocket GT. Performance is impressive too, although the (S50) engine was a bit less vocal than I expected it to be. It rode well and - at least from the passenger seat - it felt very composed.
So now it gets difficult. A good Z3M is a little bit more than I was intending to spend, but it's not completely out of budget. I'm mostly worried about the maintenance costs and things like tyres and servicing. The other two contenders are the Porsche 968 and Lotus Excel, which are both cheaper to buy condition-for-condition with comparitively humble four cylinders, skinny tyres and (in the case of the Lotus) nice cheap Toyota bits. There's also depreciation - do you reckon the S50s have plateaud yet or do they still have further to fall? Oh, and there's the small matter of insurance...
I went round to see one last night. The owner (an active member of the Z3M forum) was incredibly helpful and very informative. Amongst other things he let me try out the crucial saxophone test, and providing you thread it in length ways and then twist in round to sit diagonally with one end sitting up on the luggage guard then it does just about fit. This makes the decision a whole lot harder than it was going to be with the Z3M crossed off the list.
I liked the interior - it's amazing how special a Z3 interior can be made to feel with a few bits of chrome and some nice seats, it really does feel every bit the pocket GT. Performance is impressive too, although the (S50) engine was a bit less vocal than I expected it to be. It rode well and - at least from the passenger seat - it felt very composed.
So now it gets difficult. A good Z3M is a little bit more than I was intending to spend, but it's not completely out of budget. I'm mostly worried about the maintenance costs and things like tyres and servicing. The other two contenders are the Porsche 968 and Lotus Excel, which are both cheaper to buy condition-for-condition with comparitively humble four cylinders, skinny tyres and (in the case of the Lotus) nice cheap Toyota bits. There's also depreciation - do you reckon the S50s have plateaud yet or do they still have further to fall? Oh, and there's the small matter of insurance...
CarbonBlackM5 said:
If you like the 968 dont rule out a mint 944 Turbo. You will be able to get a very nice example of a late 250bhp for much less and still have money to spend on it. They are very easy to tune and the handling is much the same.
True. I'd perhaps be more inclined to go for an S2 than a turbo, but in truth anything down to a 924S would be an option if it was an exceptional example.I prefer the engine on the M Coupe though and it's a car I've fancied owning for a while. The Porsches fit the bill very well, but they'd be more of a 'head' decision (given the greater luggage space, apparently cheaper servicing etc.) Also I find a well setup 968 slightly too well behaved; I gather the Z3M could be a little more, er, lively?
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