e36 m3 and old age.
Discussion
Been sniffing round some M3s lately, not had a test drive yet but definitely a consideration for my new toy.
Question is, how well do they age? Id be looking for a sub 100k car and as new as possible, but they're knocking on now.
Id be willing to do plenty of preventative maintenance, not quite sure what that would entail but will be looking into it.
Question is, what does a well pampered 13yr old m3 drive like? Would it happily cruse to st tropez in relative comfort or would it be noisy bumpy grind?
I have a deep seeded hatred for things that arent screwed together properly, probably cos every thing Ive owned has dropped to bits at some point.
Question is, how well do they age? Id be looking for a sub 100k car and as new as possible, but they're knocking on now.
Id be willing to do plenty of preventative maintenance, not quite sure what that would entail but will be looking into it.
Question is, what does a well pampered 13yr old m3 drive like? Would it happily cruse to st tropez in relative comfort or would it be noisy bumpy grind?
I have a deep seeded hatred for things that arent screwed together properly, probably cos every thing Ive owned has dropped to bits at some point.
A good one is very solid. Mine is just coming up to 100k and has no squeaks, rattles or clonks at all - much better than our 5 year old Renault.
But it does feel like on old car, more like a late 80's car than a 90's design but then it was designed in the 80's.
Take one for a drive. The engine and chassis balance combined with totally solid built make it a great ownership proposition.
But it does feel like on old car, more like a late 80's car than a 90's design but then it was designed in the 80's.
Take one for a drive. The engine and chassis balance combined with totally solid built make it a great ownership proposition.
I recently bought a 1996 M3 Evo, awesome car. Its well screwed together and looks and feels like a much newer car, it had obviously been pampered as even underneath its spotless. Although its got eibach coilovers, the ride is relaxing but still good for trackwork. I only got it at the end of the summer, so its not been to the Ring yet, but I can pretty much guarantee it will cruise across Europe in comfort, have several hard days on track and get me home without drama or fuss. 
And I might be a bit odd here, but I like the interior. Overall jumping from the M3 into our new Audi TT, you really dont notice the age
Find a good one and have a test drive
And I might be a bit odd here, but I like the interior. Overall jumping from the M3 into our new Audi TT, you really dont notice the age
Find a good one and have a test drive
My '98 Coupe Evo is a really good comprimise car, it will do the trans continent blast or trackday both in relative comfort without too much drama. I bought one with a main delaer history that had obviously been well looked after, but even after that i have had to spend quite a bit of cash to bring it back to a really good example.
Suspension on nearly all of them by now needs replacing, coilovers or Eibach springs on std dampers seem to be the preffered options, you will have to replace a few suspension bushes and other rubber mountings for other parts but nothing too frightning.
The Dreaded 'V' word has been discussed to death on these forums but lets just say it's nowehere near as much of an issue these days as it used to be thanks to a few reasonably priced specialists and a better understanding of what the problems might be these days.
Criminally undervalued, sometimes victim of public perception for modified 3 series (but that seems to be fading these days), readily available and well understood cars.
I've had 3 of the damn things so far, i'm either suffering from a total lack of imagination or they might be the the best performance bargain in the 5K bracket.
Suspension on nearly all of them by now needs replacing, coilovers or Eibach springs on std dampers seem to be the preffered options, you will have to replace a few suspension bushes and other rubber mountings for other parts but nothing too frightning.
The Dreaded 'V' word has been discussed to death on these forums but lets just say it's nowehere near as much of an issue these days as it used to be thanks to a few reasonably priced specialists and a better understanding of what the problems might be these days.
Criminally undervalued, sometimes victim of public perception for modified 3 series (but that seems to be fading these days), readily available and well understood cars.
I've had 3 of the damn things so far, i'm either suffering from a total lack of imagination or they might be the the best performance bargain in the 5K bracket.
Two good sites for in depth info, get a good one and you wont be disappointed.
http://www.bmwowner.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=1
http://forums.m3cutters.co.uk/forumdisplay.php?f=4
http://www.bmwowner.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=1
http://forums.m3cutters.co.uk/forumdisplay.php?f=4
Mine feels pretty solid: every so often a pothole will send a trim-mouse squeaking off somewhere, but in the normal course of events its fine; certainly a lot better than similar aged vehicles with 100k on them. I regularly do 2hr+ trips in it, m-way & A road, it's not a magic carpet ride, but when you feel like a blast, it's ace. Some Mercs have the same solid feel, but not the similar age ones I've driven, tbh.
Clearly not an M3, but my winter beater 1995 E36 320i at 231.000 km is mechanically as sweet as a car with a third of the mileage, and just sailed through its annual MOT without anything being done to it the previous 12 months. I can only imagine that a well-maintained, preferably one or two owner treasured M3 would be very tight still.
I owned one a while ago and looking back didn't like it much TBH but I wanted one before I'd even driven one so was doomed I guess.
Issues I had with the E36;
Issues I had with the E36;
- The seats arent as comfortable as they look. On long journeys especially as they offer little or no lower back support and can cause aches. This will only get worse with age(of the car!) but obviously people come in all different shapes and sizes!
- Sticking with aches the throttle can become quite stiff (will offer too much resistance when replaced also)so can cause another issue on long journeys.
- They are quite 'woolly' cars from a handling point of view and are very soft. If you get out of a more sports orientated GT or sports car and into the E36 M3, it feels like a Rolls Royce.
- Steering is utter pants
compocon said:
- The seats arent as comfortable as they look. On long journeys especially as they offer little or no lower back support and can cause aches. This will only get worse with age(of the car!) but obviously people come in all different shapes and sizes!
- Sticking with aches the throttle can become quite stiff (will offer too much resistance when replaced also)so can cause another issue on long journeys.
- They are quite 'woolly' cars from a handling point of view and are very soft. If you get out of a more sports orientated GT or sports car and into the E36 M3, it feels like a Rolls Royce.
- Steering is utter pants
The other stuff I presume is a question of ensuring the suspension is in good order? With the eibach coilovers and healthy bushes all round, the car is tight and offers lots of feedback. Even with coilovers its a lot more comfortable than cars like my old Cooper S, Z4 etc. Driving in the wet is an absolute joy, when it steps out it's very predictable, with lots of feedback and very easy to smoothly control. A little vid of this cheap gem of a car at Oulton a few weeks ago gives an idea of the handling of a near standard car with an average driver
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dN-3HZlgR1g&sns...
SteA said:
compocon said:
- The seats arent as comfortable as they look. On long journeys especially as they offer little or no lower back support and can cause aches. This will only get worse with age(of the car!) but obviously people come in all different shapes and sizes!
- Sticking with aches the throttle can become quite stiff (will offer too much resistance when replaced also)so can cause another issue on long journeys.
- They are quite 'woolly' cars from a handling point of view and are very soft. If you get out of a more sports orientated GT or sports car and into the E36 M3, it feels like a Rolls Royce.
- Steering is utter pants
Just my opinion
The other stuff I presume is a question of ensuring the suspension is in good order? With the eibach coilovers and healthy bushes all round, the car is tight and offers lots of feedback. Even with coilovers its a lot more comfortable than cars like my old Cooper S, Z4 etc. Driving in the wet is an absolute joy, when it steps out it's very predictable, with lots of feedback and very easy to smoothly control. A little vid of this cheap gem of a car at Oulton a few weeks ago gives an idea of the handling of a near standard car with an average driver
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dN-3HZlgR1g&sns...
I couldnt disagree more about the car being predictable with lots of feedback! Even the E46 is lacking in this area with exception to the CSL.
That's interesting, although I drive lots of performance cars, this is the first M I've driven, so I don't know what other cars with different set ups are like. It must be a combination of my suspension and bushes then, even getting it to step out or slide at high speeds, it's easy to catch and smoothly place where you want it. The GF used to be terrified of my old car, now that would try to swap ends quickly, but with the M she feels safe and knows exactly what the car is doing whatever the weather 
I've owned my E36 M3 convertible for about 3 months now. It's a 1999 with 39K miles on it so sounds similar age/mileage to what you are looking at. Mine has been thoroughly pampered throughout it's life. I think it's very well built indeed. Being a convertible it does have a certain amount of scuttle shake, but nowhere near as bad as lesser convertibles I've driven. Mine has Eibach lowering springs and a full Milltek exhaust, so is pretty noisy and may be a firmer ride than standard, but never having driven a standard one I can't compare. It does feel like it would happily go anywhere though, I have complete faith that it will get me where I want to go. Performance is excellent but it does need to be revved to get the best from it. That said, it's also happy to potter around at low revs with no problem. The only criticism I would make is that the steering rack is a bit slow. If someone made a quick rack that slotted straight in then it would be on my shopping list. All in all a great car that I intend to keep for a very long time, and I wasn't previously a big fan of BMW.
Some really good advice on this thread.
I've had my Evo for over 2 years and 25k miles now, and did a 2-week 2500 mile European trip (South coast of France, Italy, Switzerland, Germany) this summer, and can't think of another car I'd want to do it in. Relaxing on a cruise, fun when you fancy going a bit quicker, comfortable, practical, with lots of nice toys and good air-con. As to whether you find it a comfy ride yourself, as is demonstrated by the posts above, is down to what you're used to. I would say it's about "medium" - mine's on standard suspension (new bushes and bits all round) and it's fairly tight, with decent body control. They aren't the last word in steering feel, but I love the chassis balance, and the engine's a beauty.
Oh, and buy on condition rather than mileage - post 100k is no issue on these cars (pretty much all for sale have that many miles). I've thought about it a lot, and in my view there's NOTHING at £4-5k that offers the power, balance and range of abilities that an E36 M3 Evo does.
I've had my Evo for over 2 years and 25k miles now, and did a 2-week 2500 mile European trip (South coast of France, Italy, Switzerland, Germany) this summer, and can't think of another car I'd want to do it in. Relaxing on a cruise, fun when you fancy going a bit quicker, comfortable, practical, with lots of nice toys and good air-con. As to whether you find it a comfy ride yourself, as is demonstrated by the posts above, is down to what you're used to. I would say it's about "medium" - mine's on standard suspension (new bushes and bits all round) and it's fairly tight, with decent body control. They aren't the last word in steering feel, but I love the chassis balance, and the engine's a beauty.
Oh, and buy on condition rather than mileage - post 100k is no issue on these cars (pretty much all for sale have that many miles). I've thought about it a lot, and in my view there's NOTHING at £4-5k that offers the power, balance and range of abilities that an E36 M3 Evo does.
I think they can easily handle the mileage, save for a bit of rust:
http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/2329890.htm
http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/2329890.htm
I have a Convertible 98 'Evo. I have in fact driven it round Europe 3 times.
1. London - Paris - Brussels - Amsterdam - Bruges - London.
2. & 3. Europe inc Stelvio et al and Italian lakes. for 2 weeks each time.
I honestly believe that people who complain about 'wooly' cars or whatever have clearly bought one on the cheap or not in prime condition and then moan about it. I'd love to see what any fairly heavy car with 50k miles old suspension and bushes handles like?
Its like all the doom mongers about TVR & Lotus, which prob stems from the wideboys in the pub shooting thier mouth off for the last 20 years about them being trouble because they bought a supercar and tried to run it on a Capri / Escort budget! ;P
It's awesome though as an E36 is *so* cheap right now and if you can deal with any negative connotations ( which are rapidly dissappearing as the E36 goes out of fashion with the chav headlight brigade) then you can get an absolute steal. Sub 6.5s to 60 155 mph (limited) car with track and cruising potential great N/A engine tech, comfort, toys, badge and upgrades galore for around 5k!
1. London - Paris - Brussels - Amsterdam - Bruges - London.
2. & 3. Europe inc Stelvio et al and Italian lakes. for 2 weeks each time.
I honestly believe that people who complain about 'wooly' cars or whatever have clearly bought one on the cheap or not in prime condition and then moan about it. I'd love to see what any fairly heavy car with 50k miles old suspension and bushes handles like?
Its like all the doom mongers about TVR & Lotus, which prob stems from the wideboys in the pub shooting thier mouth off for the last 20 years about them being trouble because they bought a supercar and tried to run it on a Capri / Escort budget! ;P
It's awesome though as an E36 is *so* cheap right now and if you can deal with any negative connotations ( which are rapidly dissappearing as the E36 goes out of fashion with the chav headlight brigade) then you can get an absolute steal. Sub 6.5s to 60 155 mph (limited) car with track and cruising potential great N/A engine tech, comfort, toys, badge and upgrades galore for around 5k!
BluePurpleRed said:
I have a Convertible 98 'Evo. I have in fact driven it round Europe 3 times.
1. London - Paris - Brussels - Amsterdam - Bruges - London.
2. & 3. Europe inc Stelvio et al and Italian lakes. for 2 weeks each time.
I honestly believe that people who complain about 'wooly' cars or whatever have clearly bought one on the cheap or not in prime condition and then moan about it. I'd love to see what any fairly heavy car with 50k miles old suspension and bushes handles like?
Its like all the doom mongers about TVR & Lotus, which prob stems from the wideboys in the pub shooting thier mouth off for the last 20 years about them being trouble because they bought a supercar and tried to run it on a Capri / Escort budget! ;P
It's awesome though as an E36 is *so* cheap right now and if you can deal with any negative connotations ( which are rapidly dissappearing as the E36 goes out of fashion with the chav headlight brigade) then you can get an absolute steal. Sub 6.5s to 60 155 mph (limited) car with track and cruising potential great N/A engine tech, comfort, toys, badge and upgrades galore for around 5k!
sub 6.5secs to 60?! perhaps in a convertible but i would say sub 5.5secs 1. London - Paris - Brussels - Amsterdam - Bruges - London.
2. & 3. Europe inc Stelvio et al and Italian lakes. for 2 weeks each time.
I honestly believe that people who complain about 'wooly' cars or whatever have clearly bought one on the cheap or not in prime condition and then moan about it. I'd love to see what any fairly heavy car with 50k miles old suspension and bushes handles like?
Its like all the doom mongers about TVR & Lotus, which prob stems from the wideboys in the pub shooting thier mouth off for the last 20 years about them being trouble because they bought a supercar and tried to run it on a Capri / Escort budget! ;P
It's awesome though as an E36 is *so* cheap right now and if you can deal with any negative connotations ( which are rapidly dissappearing as the E36 goes out of fashion with the chav headlight brigade) then you can get an absolute steal. Sub 6.5s to 60 155 mph (limited) car with track and cruising potential great N/A engine tech, comfort, toys, badge and upgrades galore for around 5k!
Hi Philis ~ 96K+ miles on my EVO now and the engine's getting better with age IMHO. Just been MOTd today and it was good to hear complements about its condition.
After 7 years of EVO ownership I've got the itch to move on now but finding a successor really hasn't been easy. Speaks volumes about the E36.
Edit ~ try as many as you can to get a feel for a good one 'cos there are some dogs about and a bad one could put you off. At this age condition really is king ; in my experience a well maintained high mileage, machine i.e. had new shocks, bushes, geometry fettled etc etc is still very quick and capable relative to modern machinery. Get a good one and you won't regret it
After 7 years of EVO ownership I've got the itch to move on now but finding a successor really hasn't been easy. Speaks volumes about the E36.
Edit ~ try as many as you can to get a feel for a good one 'cos there are some dogs about and a bad one could put you off. At this age condition really is king ; in my experience a well maintained high mileage, machine i.e. had new shocks, bushes, geometry fettled etc etc is still very quick and capable relative to modern machinery. Get a good one and you won't regret it
Edited by CRACKIE on Thursday 16th December 18:06
CRACKIE said:
96K+ miles on my EVO now and the engine's getting better with age IMHO. Just been MOTd today and it was good to hear complements about its condition.
After 7 years of EVO ownership I've got the itch to move on now but finding a successor really hasn't been easy. Speaks volumes about the E36.
E46 M3?After 7 years of EVO ownership I've got the itch to move on now but finding a successor really hasn't been easy. Speaks volumes about the E36.
E39 M5?
Gassing Station | M Power | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff