Hayward & Scott exhaust on the E60 / E61
Discussion
I hate to say it but it`s like putting Lada parts on your car. Yes it will increase the volume but not the quality of said volume.
How much investment went into creating the system on your car now? A lot more than the £2.50 and a packet of fags on the H&S system I`d guess. Possibly into seven figures of investment?
I`m right in saying yours is an estate (e61) aren`t I? Really?? A loud estate car?? It`s like a dad shouting!! I mean all this tongue in cheek I can assure you.
If I were you it would be an Eisenmann Sport if anything.
How much investment went into creating the system on your car now? A lot more than the £2.50 and a packet of fags on the H&S system I`d guess. Possibly into seven figures of investment?
I`m right in saying yours is an estate (e61) aren`t I? Really?? A loud estate car?? It`s like a dad shouting!! I mean all this tongue in cheek I can assure you.
If I were you it would be an Eisenmann Sport if anything.Is your comment one of experience then? I know what your saying about the 'brand comparison', but isn't the brand thing there to bump up the prices of the Dinan / Eissenman stuff? Everything I've read suggests that H&S are as good as the big boys in terms of quality.
My last car was an estate, a C5 RS6. It had a miltek, resonated (quietish) cat back system on that car. I was very impressed by the quality of the build as you expect. 6 months later I met a guy who had a Blueflame system built to match the Miltek. Other than the name tag that is welded onto the back boxes there was no difference in quality. The sound was just as good too. The only difference was the cost. The Blueflame was 33% cheaper. I'm a big fan of small buisnesses, I run one myself and I consider the quality of my work to be higher than the recognised brands. The fact remains however that people will always prefer a 'name', but most people are pleasantly suprised when they decide to step off the highstreet 'brand bus'.
If however the system is crap and there is proof, I'll can the investment and look elswhere.
Eddie
My last car was an estate, a C5 RS6. It had a miltek, resonated (quietish) cat back system on that car. I was very impressed by the quality of the build as you expect. 6 months later I met a guy who had a Blueflame system built to match the Miltek. Other than the name tag that is welded onto the back boxes there was no difference in quality. The sound was just as good too. The only difference was the cost. The Blueflame was 33% cheaper. I'm a big fan of small buisnesses, I run one myself and I consider the quality of my work to be higher than the recognised brands. The fact remains however that people will always prefer a 'name', but most people are pleasantly suprised when they decide to step off the highstreet 'brand bus'.
If however the system is crap and there is proof, I'll can the investment and look elswhere.
Eddie
Hiya
There is more to the 'brand bus' though!
Usually, the more expensive systems have had extensive and costly Research and Development carried out to ensure the exhaust and system perform to as best as possible standards. The manufacturing process is also a major factor. Just those two alone are parts of the reason why SuperSprint, Eisenmann, Magnaflow etc are priced in the range that they are.
Hayward and Scott are probably the best of the UK's small business exhaust manufacturing specialists. They do indeed have a good following for the price point that they come in at. Looking at the UK market, Hayward & Scott are 'mid level' in terms of the choices of BMW aftermarket sports exhuasts.
If you have a read around, it 'seems' it's been mentioned that for the E39 M5 H&S back boxes, that they're actually straight pipes and the exhaust 'box' is actually not needed and they're just there for show. If that's actually true (which a few claim it is) then it's a detractor of the system from a price view and what you're getting and I'd say best to just do the 'straight pipes' conversion and save some money. If this is the same on the E60/1 exhausts then a similar evaluation can be done.
There are many examples of the different quality levels of exhausts out there at each price point. The final choice will come down to exactly what you want and the amount you are wanting to pay.
Other names are Magnaflow, Meisterschaft, Akrapovic, Tubi.
Let us know here how you get on with your evaluations! At the Ace Cafe the other night, I do know a contact with the Tubi on his E60 M5...! all I can say is WOW..
Cheers, Dennis!
There is more to the 'brand bus' though!
Usually, the more expensive systems have had extensive and costly Research and Development carried out to ensure the exhaust and system perform to as best as possible standards. The manufacturing process is also a major factor. Just those two alone are parts of the reason why SuperSprint, Eisenmann, Magnaflow etc are priced in the range that they are.
Hayward and Scott are probably the best of the UK's small business exhaust manufacturing specialists. They do indeed have a good following for the price point that they come in at. Looking at the UK market, Hayward & Scott are 'mid level' in terms of the choices of BMW aftermarket sports exhuasts.
If you have a read around, it 'seems' it's been mentioned that for the E39 M5 H&S back boxes, that they're actually straight pipes and the exhaust 'box' is actually not needed and they're just there for show. If that's actually true (which a few claim it is) then it's a detractor of the system from a price view and what you're getting and I'd say best to just do the 'straight pipes' conversion and save some money. If this is the same on the E60/1 exhausts then a similar evaluation can be done.
There are many examples of the different quality levels of exhausts out there at each price point. The final choice will come down to exactly what you want and the amount you are wanting to pay.
Other names are Magnaflow, Meisterschaft, Akrapovic, Tubi.
Let us know here how you get on with your evaluations! At the Ace Cafe the other night, I do know a contact with the Tubi on his E60 M5...! all I can say is WOW..
Cheers, Dennis!
I had a full H and S system on my 2006 M6 - they can manufacture the sound to your own taste. Craftmanship was excellent and not overly pricey. I had mine 'loud' and never regretted it. They also did a bespoke system on my Aston DB9 V12 - fook me, did that baaaaastad sing!! All good fella!
jontysafe said:
I hate to say it but it`s like putting Lada parts on your car. Yes it will increase the volume but not the quality of said volume.
How much investment went into creating the system on your car now? A lot more than the £2.50 and a packet of fags on the H&S system I`d guess. Possibly into seven figures of investment?
I`m right in saying yours is an estate (e61) aren`t I? Really?? A loud estate car?? It`s like a dad shouting!! I mean all this tongue in cheek I can assure you. If I were you it would be an Eisenmann Sport if anything.
have you seen the welds on an eisenmann system...I could do better!! How much investment went into creating the system on your car now? A lot more than the £2.50 and a packet of fags on the H&S system I`d guess. Possibly into seven figures of investment?
I`m right in saying yours is an estate (e61) aren`t I? Really?? A loud estate car?? It`s like a dad shouting!! I mean all this tongue in cheek I can assure you.
If I were you it would be an Eisenmann Sport if anything.AliV6 said:
jontysafe said:
I hate to say it but it`s like putting Lada parts on your car. Yes it will increase the volume but not the quality of said volume.
How much investment went into creating the system on your car now? A lot more than the £2.50 and a packet of fags on the H&S system I`d guess. Possibly into seven figures of investment?
I`m right in saying yours is an estate (e61) aren`t I? Really?? A loud estate car?? It`s like a dad shouting!! I mean all this tongue in cheek I can assure you. If I were you it would be an Eisenmann Sport if anything.
have you seen the welds on an eisenmann system...I could do better!! How much investment went into creating the system on your car now? A lot more than the £2.50 and a packet of fags on the H&S system I`d guess. Possibly into seven figures of investment?
I`m right in saying yours is an estate (e61) aren`t I? Really?? A loud estate car?? It`s like a dad shouting!! I mean all this tongue in cheek I can assure you.
If I were you it would be an Eisenmann Sport if anything.I had an H&S on a Z4M for all of about 4 days, the build quality was piss poor and it droned and boomed really badly, it was just awful and to makes things worse they fitted it really badlyt and it rattled like f
k, off it came and back on with the OEM, never again
k, off it came and back on with the OEM, never againEdited by taffyracer on Friday 17th December 00:04
Have no experience with an Eisenmann or H&S on an E60/E61 but am still very happy with the Eisenmann Sport on my E39 after 3 years - very good quality, no drone and just the right amount of aggression.
Supersprint and at the higher price point, Tubi are the other usual recommendations.
Supersprint and at the higher price point, Tubi are the other usual recommendations.
Hiya
Here's the page from the Hayward & Scott website, doesn't mention anything about them really - just mentions almost standard when cruising and superb V8 sound when playtime.
If you magnify the picture, you can see the construction and welds, is it just me or is that a little untidy? is it when welding stainless steel that's how it looks?
It seems until H&S can confirm, that the belief is that they're dummy back boxes, so as mentioned, would place them highly priced if it's what's then deemed as a straight pipes conversion. How much would it be to get stainless straight pipes put on as a comparator to the price? the H&S are £705, but doesn't say if thats including fitting.
Cheers, Dennis!
Here's the page from the Hayward & Scott website, doesn't mention anything about them really - just mentions almost standard when cruising and superb V8 sound when playtime.
If you magnify the picture, you can see the construction and welds, is it just me or is that a little untidy? is it when welding stainless steel that's how it looks?
It seems until H&S can confirm, that the belief is that they're dummy back boxes, so as mentioned, would place them highly priced if it's what's then deemed as a straight pipes conversion. How much would it be to get stainless straight pipes put on as a comparator to the price? the H&S are £705, but doesn't say if thats including fitting.
Cheers, Dennis!
DennisCooper said:
Hiya
Here's the page from the Hayward & Scott website, doesn't mention anything about them really - just mentions almost standard when cruising and superb V8 sound when playtime.
If you magnify the picture, you can see the construction and welds, is it just me or is that a little untidy? is it when welding stainless steel that's how it looks?
It seems until H&S can confirm, that the belief is that they're dummy back boxes, so as mentioned, would place them highly priced if it's what's then deemed as a straight pipes conversion. How much would it be to get stainless straight pipes put on as a comparator to the price? the H&S are £705, but doesn't say if thats including fitting.
Cheers, Dennis!
Fitting was an extra £70 + Vat.Here's the page from the Hayward & Scott website, doesn't mention anything about them really - just mentions almost standard when cruising and superb V8 sound when playtime.
If you magnify the picture, you can see the construction and welds, is it just me or is that a little untidy? is it when welding stainless steel that's how it looks?
It seems until H&S can confirm, that the belief is that they're dummy back boxes, so as mentioned, would place them highly priced if it's what's then deemed as a straight pipes conversion. How much would it be to get stainless straight pipes put on as a comparator to the price? the H&S are £705, but doesn't say if thats including fitting.
Cheers, Dennis!
Hi All.
First post but i thought i'd jump straight in.
As Dennis said the H&S boxes on the E39 M5 are dummy, and in effect a glorified bean can around a straight pipe.
This was confirmed from a company point of view by Evolve automotive, you can actually see the pipe through the box, having no perforations etc.
What i will say is there are a good few people running stright pipes on the E39 M5 who very much enjoy the sound, although it is a matter of choice.
I know this doesn't help 100% in you have an E60, but first off i would imagine that the H&S "boxes" for the rest of the M power range, certainly in the quad exahust/twin box setup would be similar and hence they can offer you it at those prices due to the fact its not really an exhaust at all.
For what its worth i have an Eisenmann Race level system on my E39 M5 and can honestly say even though it was expensive, it not only looks and fits the part, but bloody well sounds the part too.
There is a slight drone at about 1500RPM that is gone by say 1750RPM but this is the norm for such exhausts and something you can't really eliminate altogether without muting the entire system as per an OEM design.
Evolve have developed a system for the E39 M5 and E9X M3 whereby they have chambers running alongside the rear boxes to lower the drone to almost inaudible levels, it works kind of like blowing over a coke bottle top. I'm not sure if they do anything for the E60 M5 like that but it coul be worth asking. Their pricing was very competetive compared to other aftermarket systems too.
First post but i thought i'd jump straight in.
As Dennis said the H&S boxes on the E39 M5 are dummy, and in effect a glorified bean can around a straight pipe.
This was confirmed from a company point of view by Evolve automotive, you can actually see the pipe through the box, having no perforations etc.
What i will say is there are a good few people running stright pipes on the E39 M5 who very much enjoy the sound, although it is a matter of choice.
I know this doesn't help 100% in you have an E60, but first off i would imagine that the H&S "boxes" for the rest of the M power range, certainly in the quad exahust/twin box setup would be similar and hence they can offer you it at those prices due to the fact its not really an exhaust at all.
For what its worth i have an Eisenmann Race level system on my E39 M5 and can honestly say even though it was expensive, it not only looks and fits the part, but bloody well sounds the part too.
There is a slight drone at about 1500RPM that is gone by say 1750RPM but this is the norm for such exhausts and something you can't really eliminate altogether without muting the entire system as per an OEM design.
Evolve have developed a system for the E39 M5 and E9X M3 whereby they have chambers running alongside the rear boxes to lower the drone to almost inaudible levels, it works kind of like blowing over a coke bottle top. I'm not sure if they do anything for the E60 M5 like that but it coul be worth asking. Their pricing was very competetive compared to other aftermarket systems too.
M5 Mark said:
Why not just go for supersprint?! Proven gains and quality. They put so much R&D into theirs, they have it perfect even down to the way it changes length with heat gain! You're wellcome to pop up and take mine for a blast if you like.
Superprint are ahead of the rest in terms of R&D, I believe their back boxes have helmholtz chambers like the standard exhuast so do not drone like other systems.Gassing Station | M Power | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff