No roll bars on a track day?
Discussion
I've been looking into some track days to take my '5 on for a while. But to be honest, im put off by not having a roll bar for obvious reasons. So do I have any options?
I was thinking:
1) A track day that doesnt really need one, I.E not a full on thrash fest, just a nice run round a track without feeling like im holding people up by going slower. Do these exist?
2) A removable bar? I personally wouldnt want to keep it on for every day driving, hitting my head on it while pootling to the shops isnt ideal. Can they be 'removable' without needing hours of work to do it?
3) Man up and get one fitted.
I was thinking:
1) A track day that doesnt really need one, I.E not a full on thrash fest, just a nice run round a track without feeling like im holding people up by going slower. Do these exist?
2) A removable bar? I personally wouldnt want to keep it on for every day driving, hitting my head on it while pootling to the shops isnt ideal. Can they be 'removable' without needing hours of work to do it?
3) Man up and get one fitted.
Options A and C are suitable.
I chose option C. Get it done. Nobody has (even when crashing), hit hit their head on my bar. But all bar designs are different and I don't think mine is available any more.
Option A is good. But on track, you want to be pushing yourself. And that may lead to a sideways moment over the grass. Which 90% of the time will be ok.
A single lap of the nurburgring at normal road driving speeds. Sure, no problem, without a bar.
A full day driving around a track....makes me nervous.
You pays your money you takes your chances.
I chose option C. Get it done. Nobody has (even when crashing), hit hit their head on my bar. But all bar designs are different and I don't think mine is available any more.
Option A is good. But on track, you want to be pushing yourself. And that may lead to a sideways moment over the grass. Which 90% of the time will be ok.
A single lap of the nurburgring at normal road driving speeds. Sure, no problem, without a bar.
A full day driving around a track....makes me nervous.
You pays your money you takes your chances.
Hard top is useless. No roll protection at all - they come off as soon as they touch the ground. In fact that might even make them more dangerous!
I think people put too much faith in roll-bars. I have one in mine and in our track car but the bars in mine are more for chassis strength than roll protection though they will help with that too. Really though roll bars are only a safety device if combined with bucket seats and harnesses. Roll bars with the standard seatbelt aren't advised - neither is using harnesses without roll bars.
Personally I'd be happy to go on most track days in an MX5 with no roll bar. I might avoid the likes of Rockingham with it's high speed bend, limited run off and close walls but most airfields and tracks like Brands are fine.
I think people put too much faith in roll-bars. I have one in mine and in our track car but the bars in mine are more for chassis strength than roll protection though they will help with that too. Really though roll bars are only a safety device if combined with bucket seats and harnesses. Roll bars with the standard seatbelt aren't advised - neither is using harnesses without roll bars.
Personally I'd be happy to go on most track days in an MX5 with no roll bar. I might avoid the likes of Rockingham with it's high speed bend, limited run off and close walls but most airfields and tracks like Brands are fine.
GravelBen said:
Hard top won't do a whole lot in a rollover - go with option C but choose a design with decent head clearance. Then you'll also get to appreciate the extra rigidity it lends the chassis, standard ones feel a bit floppy afterwards.
I agree. I had a TR Lane GP and felt the head clearance was okay (5' 11"). Made a huge difference to rigidity too, so if your dampers are tired you will notice it even more!Hmm thanks chaps
Im running a V-spec at the moment, so I kind of feel its more of a 'classic' that a track day car. I dont think a rollbar would suit the style and design i am trying to keep it in touch with. Hence a removable one would be perfect. But alas not really possible.
Might be an excuse to chop it in for a more track focussed one maybe.
Im running a V-spec at the moment, so I kind of feel its more of a 'classic' that a track day car. I dont think a rollbar would suit the style and design i am trying to keep it in touch with. Hence a removable one would be perfect. But alas not really possible.
Might be an excuse to chop it in for a more track focussed one maybe.
Don't crash, do air field days. I've a full weld in cage in my 5 but it's more about stiffening the car up. It'd be to dangerous for the road now as have to wear a helmet as I could hit my head on the side bars. I still track my MR2 road car with nothing.
Edited by Herman Toothrot on Friday 16th September 13:43
I have a Mk1 Harvard that I'm just beginning to 'restore' (ie. freshen up the suspension and get rid of the rust) but the lure of Croft's quiet trackdays will probably mean I'll be tempted at some point. See my profile for what I usually take round Croft, but it's too noisy for most of the trackdays there nowadays.
So I'm in the same boat as you, I don't want the car to look like a track special, it's got fake wood and ruched leather seats for Gods sake
My view is that you're only really likely to roll if you hit a gravel trap or kerb sideways and the wheels dig in, no amount of kerb hopping is going to flip the car and it's rare, if not unheard of for there to be serious car to car contact on a well run trackday. So I'm going with A, and I'm going to drive at a pace I feel will suit the car, leaving me very little chance of ending up sideways at speed (at least unintentionally).
It's a trackday - you won't be the slowest there and the heros in helmets can pass on the straights like they're supposed to - whatever I'm in I always try and leave room for slower cars (and in the race car, most road-going cars are slower on a trackday, supercars included) as that's the spirit of the day, when I race, I race, on a trackday I play but with respect for everyone else.
So I'm in the same boat as you, I don't want the car to look like a track special, it's got fake wood and ruched leather seats for Gods sake
My view is that you're only really likely to roll if you hit a gravel trap or kerb sideways and the wheels dig in, no amount of kerb hopping is going to flip the car and it's rare, if not unheard of for there to be serious car to car contact on a well run trackday. So I'm going with A, and I'm going to drive at a pace I feel will suit the car, leaving me very little chance of ending up sideways at speed (at least unintentionally).
It's a trackday - you won't be the slowest there and the heros in helmets can pass on the straights like they're supposed to - whatever I'm in I always try and leave room for slower cars (and in the race car, most road-going cars are slower on a trackday, supercars included) as that's the spirit of the day, when I race, I race, on a trackday I play but with respect for everyone else.
Mark Benson said:
See my profile for what I usually take round Croft,
X-Trail huh. I think we have video of you here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gPel7WbWXWY
Munter said:
That was the wife, she holds the drifts for longer than I can 
Mark Benson said:
I have a Mk1 Harvard that I'm just beginning to 'restore' (ie. freshen up the suspension and get rid of the rust) but the lure of Croft's quiet trackdays will probably mean I'll be tempted at some point. See my profile for what I usually take round Croft, but it's too noisy for most of the trackdays there nowadays.
So I'm in the same boat as you, I don't want the car to look like a track special, it's got fake wood and ruched leather seats for Gods sake
My view is that you're only really likely to roll if you hit a gravel trap or kerb sideways and the wheels dig in, no amount of kerb hopping is going to flip the car and it's rare, if not unheard of for there to be serious car to car contact on a well run trackday. So I'm going with A, and I'm going to drive at a pace I feel will suit the car, leaving me very little chance of ending up sideways at speed (at least unintentionally).
It's a trackday - you won't be the slowest there and the heros in helmets can pass on the straights like they're supposed to - whatever I'm in I always try and leave room for slower cars (and in the race car, most road-going cars are slower on a trackday, supercars included) as that's the spirit of the day, when I race, I race, on a trackday I play but with respect for everyone else.
Thank Mark, some interesting advice. I think this is my prefered option as well really, as I dont want to go down the roll bar route unless i have to. So I'm in the same boat as you, I don't want the car to look like a track special, it's got fake wood and ruched leather seats for Gods sake
My view is that you're only really likely to roll if you hit a gravel trap or kerb sideways and the wheels dig in, no amount of kerb hopping is going to flip the car and it's rare, if not unheard of for there to be serious car to car contact on a well run trackday. So I'm going with A, and I'm going to drive at a pace I feel will suit the car, leaving me very little chance of ending up sideways at speed (at least unintentionally).
It's a trackday - you won't be the slowest there and the heros in helmets can pass on the straights like they're supposed to - whatever I'm in I always try and leave room for slower cars (and in the race car, most road-going cars are slower on a trackday, supercars included) as that's the spirit of the day, when I race, I race, on a trackday I play but with respect for everyone else.
a roll bar won't improve safety, and i don't know of any trackdays that insist you have something - it isn't guaranteed to stop you injuring yourself if you flip it - a full cage would stand up to more abuse but you can still get unlucky. and in any accident where you don't flip it (which are most of them - the chances of a roll are very very slim on track) it's just something extra for you to hit your head on.
basically get a roll bar if you like the look of it, or want to improve the stiffness.
basically get a roll bar if you like the look of it, or want to improve the stiffness.
No such thing as no risk.
You can die at 30 mph on a dry road or survive a 100 mph plus biggy.
I have done as many exciting things as I can in my 60 years.
I have harmlessly slid over the grass at Goodwood where a TR3 had flipped (no casualty) doing the same.
A roll bar is a liability when you are not wearing a bone dome. (however my Quantum RST 2+2 has one)
You can die at 30 mph on a dry road or survive a 100 mph plus biggy.
I have done as many exciting things as I can in my 60 years.
I have harmlessly slid over the grass at Goodwood where a TR3 had flipped (no casualty) doing the same.
A roll bar is a liability when you are not wearing a bone dome. (however my Quantum RST 2+2 has one)
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