Missing an MX-5 - considering an MK3!
Discussion
Hi all - dont post in here anymore but some of you will remember that I've previously owned, for a good few years, a nice Mk1, and then a Mk2, both modified, both my only cars at the time, and its fair to say I'm a fully paid up MX-5 fanboy.
I've currently got a Toyota MR2 - a very tidy and nicely specced late Mk2, which is a great car in its own right, lovely to cruise in, smooth engine, well built etc. Similar in many ways to a Mazda, but its just not the same. Its much faster and more comfy than a standard 1.8 Mazda but the roof doesnt come off and the handling is neat but starts to fall apart the harder you push it, the exact opposite of the MX-5. Also - this sounds ridiculous - I miss the 'club scene' with MX-5s (thats you lot really, amongst others, made a lot of friends in real life too).
I have a bit of plan for next year of spending more than I ever have before on a car maybe 4-6k. I've always planned on having a 944, old TVR, kit car, blah blah, and running about in a £500 fiesta daily. In some ways that might be seen as the proper PH way, but I know that it also ends up costing more in total, you end up in the wrong car at the wrong times, constant battles with rust / parts / leaks / fun in winter / whatever.
I dont want a Mk1 or Mk2 as I've been there and done all that, outgrown it and honestly I want something faster and bigger (and less rusty).
I can easily live with a 2 seat roadster as my only car in practical terms - I've done it for years.
Honda S2000's I like but I'm not convinced on the handling and the running costs seem to be altogether on a next level compared to Mazda. They also don't appear particulary good value to me on the low end 2nd hand market.
I'm coming round to seriously considering a Mk3, as an only car.
The prices of Mk3's has now dropped a fair bit, theres talk on Nutz of people picking up pretty tidy cars at < £5k.
It appears there more people modifying them now too, so theres more chance to tweak it for not too much money.
As per Mk2's, is there an accepted benefit of going for a bona-fide 6spd 'sport' model, or is a regular 2.0 nigh on as good? Any performance difference? I would absolutely definitely have to be in a 2 litre car, and I would definitely want a locking diff (are they still Torsens?) - does than exclude 5pd cars then?
Obviously I've read/watched the thousands of reviews etc, but does the Mk3 really still feel 'lively' like an early car? My biggest worry is losing that feel of an older car that the Mk1 has - the lightness, the low-ish grip, the way it moves about at slow speeds.
Whatever I buy would also doubltess get tweaked and tinkered with as a matter of course to make it a bit more rorty and a bit more sharp / focused.
I know theres a few on here, so I'd appreciate comparisons from people who've had both the older Mk1&2 type, and the newer, bigger cars?
I've currently got a Toyota MR2 - a very tidy and nicely specced late Mk2, which is a great car in its own right, lovely to cruise in, smooth engine, well built etc. Similar in many ways to a Mazda, but its just not the same. Its much faster and more comfy than a standard 1.8 Mazda but the roof doesnt come off and the handling is neat but starts to fall apart the harder you push it, the exact opposite of the MX-5. Also - this sounds ridiculous - I miss the 'club scene' with MX-5s (thats you lot really, amongst others, made a lot of friends in real life too).
I have a bit of plan for next year of spending more than I ever have before on a car maybe 4-6k. I've always planned on having a 944, old TVR, kit car, blah blah, and running about in a £500 fiesta daily. In some ways that might be seen as the proper PH way, but I know that it also ends up costing more in total, you end up in the wrong car at the wrong times, constant battles with rust / parts / leaks / fun in winter / whatever.
I dont want a Mk1 or Mk2 as I've been there and done all that, outgrown it and honestly I want something faster and bigger (and less rusty).
I can easily live with a 2 seat roadster as my only car in practical terms - I've done it for years.
Honda S2000's I like but I'm not convinced on the handling and the running costs seem to be altogether on a next level compared to Mazda. They also don't appear particulary good value to me on the low end 2nd hand market.
I'm coming round to seriously considering a Mk3, as an only car.
The prices of Mk3's has now dropped a fair bit, theres talk on Nutz of people picking up pretty tidy cars at < £5k.
It appears there more people modifying them now too, so theres more chance to tweak it for not too much money.
As per Mk2's, is there an accepted benefit of going for a bona-fide 6spd 'sport' model, or is a regular 2.0 nigh on as good? Any performance difference? I would absolutely definitely have to be in a 2 litre car, and I would definitely want a locking diff (are they still Torsens?) - does than exclude 5pd cars then?
Obviously I've read/watched the thousands of reviews etc, but does the Mk3 really still feel 'lively' like an early car? My biggest worry is losing that feel of an older car that the Mk1 has - the lightness, the low-ish grip, the way it moves about at slow speeds.
Whatever I buy would also doubltess get tweaked and tinkered with as a matter of course to make it a bit more rorty and a bit more sharp / focused.
I know theres a few on here, so I'd appreciate comparisons from people who've had both the older Mk1&2 type, and the newer, bigger cars?
MR2s are lovely. Some people prefer them over the MX-5, and some people, like yourselves, prefer it the other way round. You've got a lovely looking late spec one too, which will be nicer than some of the early ones. But it's still a car released in 1990. A 2005 onwards MX-5 will feel a step up in terms of modernisation.
£6k should see you comfortably in a 2.0 Sport, or if you don't want to spend your whole budget, a 2.0 with some leftovers to mod.
S2000s personally I think handle better, have a better gear change, and that engine. But the running costs dwarf the MX-5. Not to mention the purchase price, in your price range you wouldn't be able to get past a 99/2000 model - vs a 5 year at least newer MX-5. The S2000s were about £6k more expensive when new.
Regarding mods - Steve's post on Nutz says it all really.
Regarding sport vs non sport. I like having the Bose, heated leather, bigger alloys and Bilsteins that the sports get. If you're intending on changes these straight away / soon after purchase, it might be worth not bothering with a sport as any extra premium will be lost when removing these bits. You could probably get your money back selling them on owners clubs though!
I went from a mk1>mk3, having test driven but not owned any mk2s. I would say that the mk3 does feel a bit more grown up than the mk1, but that slight lack of rawness / feel that is lost, is more than made up for by the other improvements such as poise and stability at speed (Taking my mk1 up to 90 was scary... Cruise all day at 100+ in the mk3 without any worries).
As a daily driver, the mk3 is great, mine's gone from being a weekend only car for 6 months to a daily and its perfectly up to the task, motorway cruising is comfortable and quiet (thicker roof) whereas the mk1 was just too noisy and hard work.
Get a test drive in one - like I did (when I was actually looking at Boxsters/S2000s) and you'll want one instantly
Oh and there is much more buffeting against wind in the cabin, due to the back being higher up I guess? I would never go down the m-way in my mk1 with the roof down, as 60+ was horrible. I'll happily cruise at 80 with the top down in the mk3
£6k should see you comfortably in a 2.0 Sport, or if you don't want to spend your whole budget, a 2.0 with some leftovers to mod.
S2000s personally I think handle better, have a better gear change, and that engine. But the running costs dwarf the MX-5. Not to mention the purchase price, in your price range you wouldn't be able to get past a 99/2000 model - vs a 5 year at least newer MX-5. The S2000s were about £6k more expensive when new.
Regarding mods - Steve's post on Nutz says it all really.
Regarding sport vs non sport. I like having the Bose, heated leather, bigger alloys and Bilsteins that the sports get. If you're intending on changes these straight away / soon after purchase, it might be worth not bothering with a sport as any extra premium will be lost when removing these bits. You could probably get your money back selling them on owners clubs though!
I went from a mk1>mk3, having test driven but not owned any mk2s. I would say that the mk3 does feel a bit more grown up than the mk1, but that slight lack of rawness / feel that is lost, is more than made up for by the other improvements such as poise and stability at speed (Taking my mk1 up to 90 was scary... Cruise all day at 100+ in the mk3 without any worries).
As a daily driver, the mk3 is great, mine's gone from being a weekend only car for 6 months to a daily and its perfectly up to the task, motorway cruising is comfortable and quiet (thicker roof) whereas the mk1 was just too noisy and hard work.
Get a test drive in one - like I did (when I was actually looking at Boxsters/S2000s) and you'll want one instantly
Oh and there is much more buffeting against wind in the cabin, due to the back being higher up I guess? I would never go down the m-way in my mk1 with the roof down, as 60+ was horrible. I'll happily cruise at 80 with the top down in the mk3
Edited by Riknos on Thursday 11th October 11:44
I ran a 1.8 mk1 for 6 years/100,000 miles, which I replaced with a 1.8 mk3.5. The newer car still has the MX-5 DNA (more so than the mk3 I test drove), but feels more refined and relaxing, but you can still have fun in it.
If I was buying a mk3 I'd probably go for the 2.0 non sport on the basis it has the engine and LSD from the sport, but doesn't have all the extra chrome etc and I'd change the suspension anyway.
If I was buying a mk3 I'd probably go for the 2.0 non sport on the basis it has the engine and LSD from the sport, but doesn't have all the extra chrome etc and I'd change the suspension anyway.
You need to drive them for yourself imo. As you know I've just gone from a MK1 to a MK3 and I can say they are very different cars in almost every way. I can't really compare the two tbh as the focus for each car is quite different (the MK1 being track, MK3 the daily)
What about Z4's?
What about Z4's?
Thanks guys, I've been thinking about this a lot. Some of this in in complete contradiction to what i've said in the original post, as I'm being THAT in-decisive!
Phil let me have a sit in his the other day - very nice, and his little exterior mods look great.
I can't help but thinking its too modern and sanitised for me though. I've been spending hours looking at and researching cars as I'm desperate for a project. All sorts of old Porsche, TVRs, other older Jap stuff etc.
The problem is, I really, really miss my Mk1. I (as was well documented on here) absolutely loved that car to bits. The Mk2 was good but I never clicked with it as I did the Mk1. Nor have I clicked with the Toyota, which like the Mk3 Mazda is quite sanitised and refined - a great daily driver if you did more miles than I do mind.
Thing is - I know the Mk1 like the back of my hand. I know exactly what to look for on one, and I know exactly how to fix just about everything. I love the way the car is engineered and put together, I know what mods work, and what doesnt. I even still have a BP4W cylinder head in my garage all stripped and rebuilt ready to fit to one, some ohlins shocks and other bits of trim all stashed away. Maybe its my subconsious thats made me keep these.
It would be by far the cheapest car to rebuild, get bits for etc, and at the end of the day I dont have a lot of money to blow.
I could easily afford to buy a normal car for a daily - then be able to start a proper project car - hunt out an early 93/94/95 1.8 Eunos, partially strip it, tweak it, fix it up etc etc... And then as it would be my 2nd car, it would be used for all the good stuff only, lots of hooning, trackdays, trips away etc.
They are also getting rarer and rarer on the roads, really turning into a bona-fide accepted classic.
The worry is - I have such good memories of the Mk1 - it was the right car at the right time, First sports car, I'd just graduated and got my first 'proper' job, I'd got with my Girlfriend and we went all over, first car I did loads of mods and work on etc.
Do I run the risk of spoiling all that? Who knows.
Can't for the life of me make my bloody mind up
Phil let me have a sit in his the other day - very nice, and his little exterior mods look great.
I can't help but thinking its too modern and sanitised for me though. I've been spending hours looking at and researching cars as I'm desperate for a project. All sorts of old Porsche, TVRs, other older Jap stuff etc.
The problem is, I really, really miss my Mk1. I (as was well documented on here) absolutely loved that car to bits. The Mk2 was good but I never clicked with it as I did the Mk1. Nor have I clicked with the Toyota, which like the Mk3 Mazda is quite sanitised and refined - a great daily driver if you did more miles than I do mind.
Thing is - I know the Mk1 like the back of my hand. I know exactly what to look for on one, and I know exactly how to fix just about everything. I love the way the car is engineered and put together, I know what mods work, and what doesnt. I even still have a BP4W cylinder head in my garage all stripped and rebuilt ready to fit to one, some ohlins shocks and other bits of trim all stashed away. Maybe its my subconsious thats made me keep these.
It would be by far the cheapest car to rebuild, get bits for etc, and at the end of the day I dont have a lot of money to blow.
I could easily afford to buy a normal car for a daily - then be able to start a proper project car - hunt out an early 93/94/95 1.8 Eunos, partially strip it, tweak it, fix it up etc etc... And then as it would be my 2nd car, it would be used for all the good stuff only, lots of hooning, trackdays, trips away etc.
They are also getting rarer and rarer on the roads, really turning into a bona-fide accepted classic.
The worry is - I have such good memories of the Mk1 - it was the right car at the right time, First sports car, I'd just graduated and got my first 'proper' job, I'd got with my Girlfriend and we went all over, first car I did loads of mods and work on etc.
Do I run the risk of spoiling all that? Who knows.
Can't for the life of me make my bloody mind up
It sounds like you do want another MK1 to me. I think you'd need to go through the car, spending time tinkering with it to convince yourself physically and mentally that the new car IS the better car.
Make the 'project' aspect of this one target what you thought were the weakest links in your last MK1.
My only fear with that is getting the car to that point, but not wanting to use it because it's 'too' perfect to really get involved using it. Too much love in it so you could end up afraid of enjoying it to its full.
Make the 'project' aspect of this one target what you thought were the weakest links in your last MK1.
My only fear with that is getting the car to that point, but not wanting to use it because it's 'too' perfect to really get involved using it. Too much love in it so you could end up afraid of enjoying it to its full.
That makes good sense - make a new one better in the (few) ways where the old one was lacking.
The project aspect of it is definitely a big part of it. I'm an automotive design engineer by day, and a devout tinkerer/ home mechanic. The 'doing up', engine build, semi-restoration etc is as important as the driving, so the cheapness and availability of cars, parts and mods is almost unique to this car compared to anything else remotely sporty and not a wobbly old MG-B or suchlike.
I think realistically there wouldnt be a whole lot I could do to a newer car like a Mk3 as -
A - it will cost a lot more
B - theres less you can really do in the first place
C - it would be my only car.
I've almost always had just the one car since I was 17, which is the one thing that held me back from doing even more work - I had to put whatever it was back together every day to get to work!
Now I have my own house, my own drive and garage, and I should really buy a normal car too, that wouldnt be a problem on a project.
Theres no worries about not using one properly - I used to thrash the black one mercilessly almost daily, infact thats one of the most endearing qualities about the MX-5 to me, where-as a lot of the other options will require rather more care.
The project aspect of it is definitely a big part of it. I'm an automotive design engineer by day, and a devout tinkerer/ home mechanic. The 'doing up', engine build, semi-restoration etc is as important as the driving, so the cheapness and availability of cars, parts and mods is almost unique to this car compared to anything else remotely sporty and not a wobbly old MG-B or suchlike.
I think realistically there wouldnt be a whole lot I could do to a newer car like a Mk3 as -
A - it will cost a lot more
B - theres less you can really do in the first place
C - it would be my only car.
I've almost always had just the one car since I was 17, which is the one thing that held me back from doing even more work - I had to put whatever it was back together every day to get to work!
Now I have my own house, my own drive and garage, and I should really buy a normal car too, that wouldnt be a problem on a project.
Theres no worries about not using one properly - I used to thrash the black one mercilessly almost daily, infact thats one of the most endearing qualities about the MX-5 to me, where-as a lot of the other options will require rather more care.
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