Cost effective auto tests
Discussion
I have recently got myself an MX5. Following recommendations from this forum to buy on condition over spec, I’ve got a gold 1998 1.6L mk2. It's a little rough around the edges cosmetically but within a very tight budget, rust free, water tight and runs great. It’s a basic model with no ABS, TC, PAS, LSD or AC. I am in love 
I am part of the Loughborough car club and have been taking part in the auto tests and auto solos (grass and tarmac) they hold. I’m looking for some cost effective modification I can make to the car to make it A) more fun and B) more competitive.
• The car is a daily driver so everything must be street legal or easily changed at the site.
• I’m 25 with no no-claims, I can afford to pay a bit more on the insurance for a really good modification but it needs to be considered in the cost.
• Cost effective. I don’t mind spending a decent amount of money for a decent improvement.
• The courses are tight and often low grip (grass and cold/frosty tarmac) so lots of power doesn’t necessarily help and can even be a hindrance.
• They are pretty informal events so fun is a higher priority than performance for now.
I am part of the Loughborough car club and have been taking part in the auto tests and auto solos (grass and tarmac) they hold. I’m looking for some cost effective modification I can make to the car to make it A) more fun and B) more competitive.
• The car is a daily driver so everything must be street legal or easily changed at the site.
• I’m 25 with no no-claims, I can afford to pay a bit more on the insurance for a really good modification but it needs to be considered in the cost.
• Cost effective. I don’t mind spending a decent amount of money for a decent improvement.
• The courses are tight and often low grip (grass and cold/frosty tarmac) so lots of power doesn’t necessarily help and can even be a hindrance.
• They are pretty informal events so fun is a higher priority than performance for now.
To give you an idea of the modification I¡¦m considering atm here is a list of modifications I have found from browsing the forums and talking to the guys in Loughborough:
• Driving with the top down ¡V better visibility and hear feedback from the car (and look cool) ¡V Free
• Peg in the handbrake ¡V drill a small hole through the handbrake button then hold it in place with a paper clip for easier handbrake turns ¡V Free
• Adjusting tyre pressures at the site ¡V lowering pressures for grip. Keep a pump in the boot to return the pressure to safe levels for the road. ¡V currently using 28 on the road. What¡¦s a good pressure for autotesting? ¡V Free (I already have a foot pump)
• Full service ¡V make sure the car is in good working order and get the fluids changed. ¡V Small to medium cost depending condition of the car but worth it
• Wheel alignment and balancing ¡V from searching the forums I gather wheel alignment can have a large effect the mx5s handling ¡V is the standard wheel alignment good enough or should I find a garage capable of custom setups? And what setup is good for auto tests AND roads? ¡V small cost
• Spare rear tyres ¡V keep a set of second hand tyres for the rear wheels. Won¡¦t provide any performance but burning second hand tyres is cheaper than burning road tyres and avoids accidentally taking the road tyres past their legal limit at the event. Road tyres can be left in the boot for extra weight over the rear wheels if the surface is very slippy. Can you fit 2 spare tyres in the boot? ¡V small cost but saves money in the long run.
• Brakes ¡V possibly get the green stuff. Although the current brakes are capable of locking the wheels and auto tests only last 1 minute so brake fade isn¡¦t an issue, I¡¦m not sure this is will provide much benefit ¡V Small cost
• LSD ¡V I know drifting isn¡¦t usually the fastest when racing but the auto tests often have reversing sections and tight hairpins so an LSD to help control slides might be worth while. I would like to test drive one before investing, if possible. ¡V medium cost
Opinions on my current plans are welcome and what else should I be looking in to?
• Driving with the top down ¡V better visibility and hear feedback from the car (and look cool) ¡V Free
• Peg in the handbrake ¡V drill a small hole through the handbrake button then hold it in place with a paper clip for easier handbrake turns ¡V Free
• Adjusting tyre pressures at the site ¡V lowering pressures for grip. Keep a pump in the boot to return the pressure to safe levels for the road. ¡V currently using 28 on the road. What¡¦s a good pressure for autotesting? ¡V Free (I already have a foot pump)
• Full service ¡V make sure the car is in good working order and get the fluids changed. ¡V Small to medium cost depending condition of the car but worth it
• Wheel alignment and balancing ¡V from searching the forums I gather wheel alignment can have a large effect the mx5s handling ¡V is the standard wheel alignment good enough or should I find a garage capable of custom setups? And what setup is good for auto tests AND roads? ¡V small cost
• Spare rear tyres ¡V keep a set of second hand tyres for the rear wheels. Won¡¦t provide any performance but burning second hand tyres is cheaper than burning road tyres and avoids accidentally taking the road tyres past their legal limit at the event. Road tyres can be left in the boot for extra weight over the rear wheels if the surface is very slippy. Can you fit 2 spare tyres in the boot? ¡V small cost but saves money in the long run.
• Brakes ¡V possibly get the green stuff. Although the current brakes are capable of locking the wheels and auto tests only last 1 minute so brake fade isn¡¦t an issue, I¡¦m not sure this is will provide much benefit ¡V Small cost
• LSD ¡V I know drifting isn¡¦t usually the fastest when racing but the auto tests often have reversing sections and tight hairpins so an LSD to help control slides might be worth while. I would like to test drive one before investing, if possible. ¡V medium cost
Opinions on my current plans are welcome and what else should I be looking in to?
Congrats on the new car!
I've taken my Mk2.5 on a good number of autosolos this year and had a terrific time with it. Great list of questions - here are a few thoughts.
Handbrake - great idea. I put in a drift button and it came in very handy for the one event I did this year that was more like and autotest. You might already have the technique down, but I watched a few video tutorials on J-turns and it helped a lot.
Tyre pressures - I ran with 26 lbs all year. Started off closer to 30, but there was noticably more grip at 26.
Full service - absolutely. You might be using your rev limiter a lot so a healthy engine is important.
Alignment - I researched and used what is recommended by the American autocross (equivalent to autosolo) competitors. Max front negative camber, max caster without losing camber, zero toe. In the back, one more degree negative and zero toe.
Cheap rear tyres - if you're driving for fun, then economical tyres are a good idea for autotest where you'll be needing to slide the back around. I started with a set of new Yokohama AD-08 this year and it definitely hurt to burn them out doing donuts around cones. Did an event at Night Owl truck stop with Warwickshire DC and that surface was incredibly abrasive. Ultimately though, I think sticky tyres are faster as it's what makes the car go forward.
Brakes - I don't think they're important. As you say, we never heat them up enough to be of concern.
LSD - If I had to choose one thing, this would be it. The LSD made the slides so very easy to control and modulate.
The only other thing I can think of that you haven't mentioned is to fit a hydraulic handbrake. I think it would be much easier to modulate and would be a big advantage for autotest.
I only had one event this year that had autotest maneouvers. Footage here: http://youtu.be/_jnMwA0h_pY
Was my first time doing anything like that but I had a blast. Hope some of this helps.
Arthur
I've taken my Mk2.5 on a good number of autosolos this year and had a terrific time with it. Great list of questions - here are a few thoughts.
Handbrake - great idea. I put in a drift button and it came in very handy for the one event I did this year that was more like and autotest. You might already have the technique down, but I watched a few video tutorials on J-turns and it helped a lot.
Tyre pressures - I ran with 26 lbs all year. Started off closer to 30, but there was noticably more grip at 26.
Full service - absolutely. You might be using your rev limiter a lot so a healthy engine is important.
Alignment - I researched and used what is recommended by the American autocross (equivalent to autosolo) competitors. Max front negative camber, max caster without losing camber, zero toe. In the back, one more degree negative and zero toe.
Cheap rear tyres - if you're driving for fun, then economical tyres are a good idea for autotest where you'll be needing to slide the back around. I started with a set of new Yokohama AD-08 this year and it definitely hurt to burn them out doing donuts around cones. Did an event at Night Owl truck stop with Warwickshire DC and that surface was incredibly abrasive. Ultimately though, I think sticky tyres are faster as it's what makes the car go forward.
Brakes - I don't think they're important. As you say, we never heat them up enough to be of concern.
LSD - If I had to choose one thing, this would be it. The LSD made the slides so very easy to control and modulate.
The only other thing I can think of that you haven't mentioned is to fit a hydraulic handbrake. I think it would be much easier to modulate and would be a big advantage for autotest.
I only had one event this year that had autotest maneouvers. Footage here: http://youtu.be/_jnMwA0h_pY
Was my first time doing anything like that but I had a blast. Hope some of this helps.
Arthur
I would have thought that tyre pressures around stock would be best. You aren't going to get the tyres warm so that's not a concern but lower pressures will lose some control and add roll in the tyres.
You can fit one 14" wheel in the boot and you should be able to fit a 15" if you let the air out. A 2nd spare can go on a boot rack...
Brakes - I'd stick with stock pads. They don't need warming like most track pads do. Don't use Green Stuff - they are pants.
You can fit one 14" wheel in the boot and you should be able to fit a 15" if you let the air out. A 2nd spare can go on a boot rack...
Brakes - I'd stick with stock pads. They don't need warming like most track pads do. Don't use Green Stuff - they are pants.
arthurc604 said:
Alignment - I researched and used what is recommended by the American autocross (equivalent to autosolo) competitors. Max front negative camber, max caster without losing camber, zero toe. In the back, one more degree negative and zero toe.
That sounds like a very aggressive setup. I'd imagine that would work well in Autosolo as you are pretty much always turning. I would have thought that would cause excessive inside-edge tyre wear for road use though and on the road you would want a touch of toe-in at the rear.Take good note of ArthurC's tips ^^.
Unless I'm very much mistaken he took our local m/club's Autosolo championship this year.
What he doesn't say is that a smooth driving style will give you better times than all the mods listed.
When I saw him compete it was a pleasure to watch - well done Arthur.
Cheers, Pewe.
Unless I'm very much mistaken he took our local m/club's Autosolo championship this year.
What he doesn't say is that a smooth driving style will give you better times than all the mods listed.
When I saw him compete it was a pleasure to watch - well done Arthur.
Cheers, Pewe.
Had my first go at an autotest in the MX5 last night. I was pretty slow, coming 11 out of 13 in my class but it was a hell of a lot of fun.
The track was very tight. There was about a car and a half’s length between the slalom cones and not much room to go wide, combined with being the first time I’ve driven a rear wheel drive car in anger I will admit to being shy and struggling a bit.
I got some advice between runs from some of the guys and it sounds like I need to be quicker and more aggressive to get the back end out nicely. With practise I’ll build confidence and with confidence I can be more aggressive so I’m sure ill get the hang of it in time.
I also noticed some more things I think I will add to the list:
•Upgrade the handbrake. There is a lot of travel in my handbrake and it’s not that strong when it does engage. I really need to do something with it, whether it’s a hydraulic upgrade or just some tlc on the one iv got iv not decided yet.
•LSD, many of the guys at Loughborough recommended getting an LSD, combined with it being your priority upgrade. I think the LSD has moved from maybe getting one to definitely getting one.
•Steering knob. I did struggle a bit going from full lock to full lock and pulling the handbrake to get round the cone at the bottom. When I had PAS I’d palm it with one hand and handbrake with the other. That didn’t really work last night so I’m considering a steering wheel knob to help with the quick transitions and lack of PAS. I’ve never used one before so not sure if it would just get in the way even more.
He He I did get the impression ArthurC knew what he was talking about. Especially when I went out and found I wanted a better handbrake, I come home to look on here and see that’s already one of his recommendations. I am also well aware that at this moment in time I am the weak link not the car. That’s why most of the mods revolve around making the car easier to drive rather than better performance.
The track was very tight. There was about a car and a half’s length between the slalom cones and not much room to go wide, combined with being the first time I’ve driven a rear wheel drive car in anger I will admit to being shy and struggling a bit.
I got some advice between runs from some of the guys and it sounds like I need to be quicker and more aggressive to get the back end out nicely. With practise I’ll build confidence and with confidence I can be more aggressive so I’m sure ill get the hang of it in time.
I also noticed some more things I think I will add to the list:
•Upgrade the handbrake. There is a lot of travel in my handbrake and it’s not that strong when it does engage. I really need to do something with it, whether it’s a hydraulic upgrade or just some tlc on the one iv got iv not decided yet.
•LSD, many of the guys at Loughborough recommended getting an LSD, combined with it being your priority upgrade. I think the LSD has moved from maybe getting one to definitely getting one.
•Steering knob. I did struggle a bit going from full lock to full lock and pulling the handbrake to get round the cone at the bottom. When I had PAS I’d palm it with one hand and handbrake with the other. That didn’t really work last night so I’m considering a steering wheel knob to help with the quick transitions and lack of PAS. I’ve never used one before so not sure if it would just get in the way even more.
He He I did get the impression ArthurC knew what he was talking about. Especially when I went out and found I wanted a better handbrake, I come home to look on here and see that’s already one of his recommendations. I am also well aware that at this moment in time I am the weak link not the car. That’s why most of the mods revolve around making the car easier to drive rather than better performance.
BAS231187 said:
• Wheel alignment and balancing ¡V from searching the forums I gather wheel alignment can have a large effect the mx5s handling ¡V is the standard wheel alignment good enough or should I find a garage capable of custom setups? And what setup is good for auto tests AND roads? ¡V small cost
• LSD ¡V I know drifting isn¡¦t usually the fastest when racing but the auto tests often have reversing sections and tight hairpins so an LSD to help control slides might be worth while. I would like to test drive one before investing, if possible. ¡V medium cost
Glad you have found a car you enjoy.• LSD ¡V I know drifting isn¡¦t usually the fastest when racing but the auto tests often have reversing sections and tight hairpins so an LSD to help control slides might be worth while. I would like to test drive one before investing, if possible. ¡V medium cost
With the wheel alignment, you are right, the MX5 has fully adjustable suspension front and rear so can really benefit from an alignment, but take note, thats not a Kwik Fit or high street garage alignment for 20 quid. You really need to spend approx 100 pounds on a proper 4 wheel alignment. Not many places do them, but there should be one a short drive away if you are lucky. I use and highly recommend Blink Motorsport in Winsford, Cheshire. Wheels in Motion down south somewhere also come highly recommended too. Use the forums and you will find one recommended depending on your location. It should take about an hour or so and the technician should discuss with you first what you want from the car, what you use it for etc so you have a custom set up that suits yourself. Even better if they put a weight in the drivers seat that matches your weight so its set up as precisely as possible. The cars alignment specs when built had a fairly wide tolerance so a proper alignment will make everything feel nice and tight. Its probably one of the best pound for pound things you can do for your MX5 and after the first time the difference is like night and day. If you arent satisfied after a proper alignment, I will eat my hat.
LSD's are a popular upgrade, Torsen diffs can be had for about 300 quid, and are a straight swap usually. I am not sure about whether it applies to the MK2 like it does the MK1, but as yours is a 1.6 it may need the 1.8 prop and shafts to fit, but thats all.
Avoid the Fuji LSD fitted to 03-05 cars, tabs from the clutch pack inside have been known to break, the diff still works just with less effectiveness. Ask me how I know!! I now have a type 1 Torsen in my 2004 car and it really is great.
Good work OP 
I've puchased a '94 eunos for the same job..... so far, 2 events down with a 2nd and a 1st in class (both tarmac) and its much nicer to drive to the venue than my old MGB!
high rear tyre pressures can help the rear lose traction on really tight stuff and then you can steer on the throttle, I do have an lsd (but a useless handbrake. for now).
sometimes smoother can be quicker than a yank on the handbrake!
i've tried a steering wheel knob and i hated it, see how you get on.
this is my first event in the car........ and i still haven't managed to work out out how the brakes work
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detail...
the guy on the stopwatch is Dave Cook, google him - dave cook autotest/Anglia he can drive a bit!!!!
Steve
I've puchased a '94 eunos for the same job..... so far, 2 events down with a 2nd and a 1st in class (both tarmac) and its much nicer to drive to the venue than my old MGB!
high rear tyre pressures can help the rear lose traction on really tight stuff and then you can steer on the throttle, I do have an lsd (but a useless handbrake. for now).
sometimes smoother can be quicker than a yank on the handbrake!
i've tried a steering wheel knob and i hated it, see how you get on.
this is my first event in the car........ and i still haven't managed to work out out how the brakes work
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detail...
the guy on the stopwatch is Dave Cook, google him - dave cook autotest/Anglia he can drive a bit!!!!
Steve
hehe nice car Lazygraduate!
I read through the recommended garages list and saw 5speed in Nottingham. everyone seems to like their work so I think I'll have to go have a look.
The group that I do auto solos with is the Loughborough Car Club
http://www.loughboroughcarclub.co.uk/
That's their website. if you email them asking about events they will add you to the mailing list. when I joined it was £20 to join and you got 1 free session. then it was £15 for every other session.
There next event is on the 8th of Jan. would be awesome to see another mx5 there
I read through the recommended garages list and saw 5speed in Nottingham. everyone seems to like their work so I think I'll have to go have a look.
The group that I do auto solos with is the Loughborough Car Club
http://www.loughboroughcarclub.co.uk/
That's their website. if you email them asking about events they will add you to the mailing list. when I joined it was £20 to join and you got 1 free session. then it was £15 for every other session.
There next event is on the 8th of Jan. would be awesome to see another mx5 there
Cheers for the info.
So what kind of time is the Tuesday stuff on? Evening or daytime?
Could be very interested and would be running standard (have k+n but can revert ack if needed and run a slightly better exhaust than standard)
Steve at 5speed is wicked, genuinely nice bloke! Very very knowledgeable!
Matt
So what kind of time is the Tuesday stuff on? Evening or daytime?
Could be very interested and would be running standard (have k+n but can revert ack if needed and run a slightly better exhaust than standard)
Steve at 5speed is wicked, genuinely nice bloke! Very very knowledgeable!
Matt
seany87 said:
If you arent satisfied after a proper alignment, I will eat my hat.
Your hat is safe!Got the 4 wheel alignment done at 5Speed this weekend combined with an annual service.
Wow the difference is amazing! I was expecting to be able to feel a slight difference before and after but it was actually huge, instantly noticeable and for the better in every respect.
Thanks to everyone (and not just in this thread) that recommended getting the alignment done properly, I am very happy with the results
. I have an auto test and a track day coming up and cant wait to see the difference when driven in anger.The service showed that the car is a bit rough around the edges and wants some of the consumables replacing but otherwise is in pretty good nick. for less than 1k im very happy with this car as a daily driver and track car.
GBB said:
Bookmarked.
Planning to do some Autotests/Autosolo this year (done one last yr with CSMA).
Got a MK1, and once it's got it's MOT then plan's include proper roll bar, and considering polybushing.
Get it MOT'd and start playing Planning to do some Autotests/Autosolo this year (done one last yr with CSMA).
Got a MK1, and once it's got it's MOT then plan's include proper roll bar, and considering polybushing.
this is what i'm doing in mine...
http://www.pistonheads.co.uk/xforums/topic.asp?h=0...
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