mk.2.5 LSD options.
Discussion
Im looking to buy a 1.8 mk 2.5 but cant decide what the best thing to do. I want a UK car because the insurance is cheaper.
An LSD is the only option I'm really bothered about. In fact, the less options the better because all the electronic stuff adds extra weight (well the motors do anyway.) Also, AC appears to add a fair amount of weight.
As far as I know, I have two options:
1) get a 1.8i and buy an LSD and install it.
2) get an S or special edition variant with LSD already in place.
How much are LSD's going for at the moment?
Am i right in thinking there are two types? Normal and Torsen?
Are there any other benefits to buying and S over a standard car? A few extra braces and 6 gears?
An LSD is the only option I'm really bothered about. In fact, the less options the better because all the electronic stuff adds extra weight (well the motors do anyway.) Also, AC appears to add a fair amount of weight.
As far as I know, I have two options:
1) get a 1.8i and buy an LSD and install it.
2) get an S or special edition variant with LSD already in place.
How much are LSD's going for at the moment?
Am i right in thinking there are two types? Normal and Torsen?
Are there any other benefits to buying and S over a standard car? A few extra braces and 6 gears?
I'm pretty sure all mk2 1.8's have an LSD
After 2003 the mk2.5s type 2 torsen was replaced with a tochigi fuji lsd, which had clutch plates rather than all helical gears like the torsens. The fuji diffs have been known to shed tabs and make a rattly sound, ask me how I know. I paid 300 for a second hand type 1 torsen off a 94 car, its great!
After 2003 the mk2.5s type 2 torsen was replaced with a tochigi fuji lsd, which had clutch plates rather than all helical gears like the torsens. The fuji diffs have been known to shed tabs and make a rattly sound, ask me how I know. I paid 300 for a second hand type 1 torsen off a 94 car, its great!
I think, any UK Mk2.5 1.8 with 6-speed will also have LSD. I don't think any UK 1.8 with 5-speed will. I could be wrong but that sounds right to me.
Why are you that worried about the weight difference? Most of the additional weight of the Sport (It's Sport on Mk2.5, not S) is down to the additional braces which many people add to non-Sport models anyway. The other Sport extras are the 6-speed, leather seats and fog-lights plus a few trim pieces. AC is an option on all models. You will notice no performance difference between one with all the options and a base model with no options. The Sport Bilstein suspension is also a (popular) option.
Why are you that worried about the weight difference? Most of the additional weight of the Sport (It's Sport on Mk2.5, not S) is down to the additional braces which many people add to non-Sport models anyway. The other Sport extras are the 6-speed, leather seats and fog-lights plus a few trim pieces. AC is an option on all models. You will notice no performance difference between one with all the options and a base model with no options. The Sport Bilstein suspension is also a (popular) option.
seany87 said:
After 2003 the mk2.5s type 2 torsen was replaced with a tochigi fuji lsd, which had clutch plates rather than all helical gears like the torsens. The fuji diffs have been known to shed tabs and make a rattly sound, ask me how I know. I paid 300 for a second hand type 1 torsen off a 94 car, its great!
Didn't realise that. Does that apply to UK cars as well, or just JDM ones?Mine's an '03...
Thanks Lazza.
I'm just a bit OCD when it comes to weight. If i can save 200g somewhere, I will. Its a mental thing more than anything. If I know a car is heavier than it could potentially be, I will always know it in the back of my mind. For example, I know electric window motors plus all the ancillaries are about 3kg over manual ones. Not enough to make any tangible difference, but enough to play on my mind.
I think though that all 2.5's will have leccy windows, so im not too concerned with that particular detail this time round. I was with my mk1 though.
I hate my brain sometimes.
I'm just a bit OCD when it comes to weight. If i can save 200g somewhere, I will. Its a mental thing more than anything. If I know a car is heavier than it could potentially be, I will always know it in the back of my mind. For example, I know electric window motors plus all the ancillaries are about 3kg over manual ones. Not enough to make any tangible difference, but enough to play on my mind.
I think though that all 2.5's will have leccy windows, so im not too concerned with that particular detail this time round. I was with my mk1 though.
I hate my brain sometimes.
Edited by WetPaint on Sunday 3rd February 23:44
seany87 said:
I'm pretty sure all mk2 1.8's have an LSD
After 2003 the mk2.5s type 2 torsen was replaced with a tochigi fuji lsd, which had clutch plates rather than all helical gears like the torsens. The fuji diffs have been known to shed tabs and make a rattly sound, ask me how I know. I paid 300 for a second hand type 1 torsen off a 94 car, its great!
Actually a nice 04 Euphoric has come up. How are they in general? I assume it will have one of those tochigi fuji things in it. A very boring question, but what mpg are you seeing?After 2003 the mk2.5s type 2 torsen was replaced with a tochigi fuji lsd, which had clutch plates rather than all helical gears like the torsens. The fuji diffs have been known to shed tabs and make a rattly sound, ask me how I know. I paid 300 for a second hand type 1 torsen off a 94 car, its great!
From what I have heard, the 5-speed shifts easier than the 6 speed (and I believe it too, with the 6 speed I would end up over in reverse land if I was trying to make a quick shift into 5th, and sometimes, when it is cold, its a little tough to shift). I believe the 5-speed is lighter than the 6-speed as well. The bose stereo (do you guys have that over there? I live in the US) reduces the weight a bit even though it is a terrible system, but I wouldn't make a decision on what car I was buying on that.
I generally fill up £10 from near empty each time. I can feel the difference with a full tank. Can't you? Anywhoo, this isn't about my obsession with lightness, its just something that i always try to factor in when choosing a model. Aircon is a big no no as far as Im concerned.
Im mainly trying to figure out the most cost effective way to get a type 1 torsen LSD in a 2.5. I am also keen to have/add the extra bracing because i know it will improve the handling, which is the whole point in the car anyway.
What I have learned is that a 2001-2002 sport comes with the torsen I want and the 2003 upwards come with the fuji wotsit that appears to be weaker. The sport comes with everything I want I think, providing I get the correct year and as long as there is no aircon. As mad as it may seem, that is a deal breaker for me. The whole setup weighs in, as I understand it at around 15kg, which isnt insignificant to me.
The other option is a standard 1.8, then adding the diff and extra bracing.
Ive no idea what kind of price the early lsd's are commanding right now. Any ballpark figure would help if anybody knows?
Im mainly trying to figure out the most cost effective way to get a type 1 torsen LSD in a 2.5. I am also keen to have/add the extra bracing because i know it will improve the handling, which is the whole point in the car anyway.
What I have learned is that a 2001-2002 sport comes with the torsen I want and the 2003 upwards come with the fuji wotsit that appears to be weaker. The sport comes with everything I want I think, providing I get the correct year and as long as there is no aircon. As mad as it may seem, that is a deal breaker for me. The whole setup weighs in, as I understand it at around 15kg, which isnt insignificant to me.
The other option is a standard 1.8, then adding the diff and extra bracing.
Ive no idea what kind of price the early lsd's are commanding right now. Any ballpark figure would help if anybody knows?
Edited by WetPaint on Monday 4th February 13:53
Edited by WetPaint on Monday 4th February 13:57
WetPaint said:
Actually a nice 04 Euphoric has come up. How are they in general? I assume it will have one of those tochigi fuji things in it. A very boring question, but what mpg are you seeing?
The Euphonics are great, but I am biased. They have all the kit of the mk2.5 Sports (big brake kit, leather, extra bracing, heated seats, electric mirrors etc) apart from the bilstein suspension, aircon and the 6 speed box - which I don't miss tbh. They come with the fuji diff as the Euphonics were built in 2004. The wheels are nice but rather heavy.I get 28-30mpg on average.. Mostly urban, including some B road blasts. Take it easy on the motorway, 65-70 and you can see 40mpg I reckon, although I find it near impossible to stick to that.
if you want a light car get a caterham.
unless you start actively stripping stuff out, you don't want to get too hung up on teh weight. as lazza says, if you get a lower model with less bracing, smaller brakes and diff etc, you'll probably want to brace it, put a roll cage in there, get larger brakes, and upgrade the diff. those mods will definitely improve the car, but also increase the weight. and where do you stop, taking out sound deadening, swapping seats?
personally i don't get why you wouldn't have leccy windows for the sake of saving 2kg in a 1000+kg car. in the same way i wouldn't do without a radio and speakers, and put an ipod on instead, to save another 2kg.
but different strokes
unless you start actively stripping stuff out, you don't want to get too hung up on teh weight. as lazza says, if you get a lower model with less bracing, smaller brakes and diff etc, you'll probably want to brace it, put a roll cage in there, get larger brakes, and upgrade the diff. those mods will definitely improve the car, but also increase the weight. and where do you stop, taking out sound deadening, swapping seats?
personally i don't get why you wouldn't have leccy windows for the sake of saving 2kg in a 1000+kg car. in the same way i wouldn't do without a radio and speakers, and put an ipod on instead, to save another 2kg.
but different strokes
I'm just weird. I understand what you are both saying and it makes perfect sense. I would LOVE a Caterham, but don't have the pennies 
However, my brain thinks in terms of an optimal setup, not necessarily optimal weight(contrary to my previous postings.)
Take two cars, almost exactly the same spec and options etc. Assume though that one has electric windows and the other doesn't.
If i purchase the one with electric windows, I know, in the back of my mind. regardless of whether or not there is any noticeable difference, that this car will weigh more than the other one and therefore, is not optimal.
When it comes to bracing etc, I'd rather have it than not because I know there will be handling benefits even though a car without them will be lighter. It is a more optimal setup.
Thats just me though. Always looking for that little bit extra. I sometimes wish I could just ignore these tiny niggles and enjoy my cars, but I just can't. I must have the most optimal setup for any given model or I won't be happy.
However, my brain thinks in terms of an optimal setup, not necessarily optimal weight(contrary to my previous postings.)
Take two cars, almost exactly the same spec and options etc. Assume though that one has electric windows and the other doesn't.
If i purchase the one with electric windows, I know, in the back of my mind. regardless of whether or not there is any noticeable difference, that this car will weigh more than the other one and therefore, is not optimal.
When it comes to bracing etc, I'd rather have it than not because I know there will be handling benefits even though a car without them will be lighter. It is a more optimal setup.
Thats just me though. Always looking for that little bit extra. I sometimes wish I could just ignore these tiny niggles and enjoy my cars, but I just can't. I must have the most optimal setup for any given model or I won't be happy.
You sir, are soulmates with this blogger: http://mpheinitz.blogspot.co.uk/2011/11/begin.html
Enjoy reading his 61 entries - I know you will!
I actually own pretty much the car you're looking for - a 2002 Sport S-VT with no A/C. I bought it a year ago specifically for autosolo and it's been terrific with the right tyres on it.
As far as weight savings, in my opinion the biggest and easiest gains are:
- Lose the spare tyre and jack
- Aftermarket seats especially if leather
- Aftermarket rims
My 6-speed shifted much better after replacing the upper and lower boots (I still don't understand why) and switching the oil to Ford gearbox oil 75W-90 BO FINIS:1045737. It's still not terrific but I'm suspecting the clutch slave cylinder is not 100%. I actually carry a spare around with me in the boot in case it fails suddenly. Yes I know, excess weight!
If you do an eBay search for 6-speed Mk2 it will give you an idea of what's out there. There's also the imported Mk2 RS - if you're insuring on classic car policy it might not be more expensive, not sure.
Enjoy reading his 61 entries - I know you will!
I actually own pretty much the car you're looking for - a 2002 Sport S-VT with no A/C. I bought it a year ago specifically for autosolo and it's been terrific with the right tyres on it.
As far as weight savings, in my opinion the biggest and easiest gains are:
- Lose the spare tyre and jack
- Aftermarket seats especially if leather
- Aftermarket rims
My 6-speed shifted much better after replacing the upper and lower boots (I still don't understand why) and switching the oil to Ford gearbox oil 75W-90 BO FINIS:1045737. It's still not terrific but I'm suspecting the clutch slave cylinder is not 100%. I actually carry a spare around with me in the boot in case it fails suddenly. Yes I know, excess weight!
If you do an eBay search for 6-speed Mk2 it will give you an idea of what's out there. There's also the imported Mk2 RS - if you're insuring on classic car policy it might not be more expensive, not sure.
Ooops, I forgot about exhaust. Those are always heavy from the factory. More weight discussion: http://mpheinitz.blogspot.co.uk/2012/05/theoretica...
Sorry, am I feeding your unhealthy obsession? :-)
Sorry, am I feeding your unhealthy obsession? :-)
Losing weight is never unhealthy, unless it leaves you deaf from removing sound deadening.
Thanks for the link to the blog. Good stuff.
Seems a lot of stuff is fairly easy to remove, so getting hung up on options during the purchase period seems less important. Just like snotrag said, AC is easy enough to get out by the looks of it.
Thanks for the link to the blog. Good stuff.
Seems a lot of stuff is fairly easy to remove, so getting hung up on options during the purchase period seems less important. Just like snotrag said, AC is easy enough to get out by the looks of it.
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