Supercharging my mk2.5
Discussion
Currently have a mk2.5 Sport and have always felt that with ~200bhp it'd be really quite special.
So this is a question to the supercharged guys here; If you were starting again from scratch, how would you go about it? Would you do anything differently?
Basically I want to know, what's the best solution to achieve a reliable ~180-200bhp from a mk2.5 and how much (roughly) is it going to cost?
I used to have a 2004 Mini Cooper S and I loved the supercharged characteristics of that engine.
So this is a question to the supercharged guys here; If you were starting again from scratch, how would you go about it? Would you do anything differently?
Basically I want to know, what's the best solution to achieve a reliable ~180-200bhp from a mk2.5 and how much (roughly) is it going to cost?
I used to have a 2004 Mini Cooper S and I loved the supercharged characteristics of that engine.
http://www.mx5nutz.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=5...
Provisionally sold but might be worth getting second dibs on it
Provisionally sold but might be worth getting second dibs on it
I've been thinking along the same lines and asking myself the same question a lot recently. From what I can see and for my purposes, the FastForward Superchargers' coldside MP62 seems to be the best, albeit not perfect, solution.
It comes in 3 options: bare bones, 165 WHP and 190 WHP. The bare bones kit is the same as the 165 WHP kit (which includes everything needed to get it fitted and running) minus the engine management (power card). The 190 WHP kit is the same as the 165 WHP kit plus a fifth injector for fueling/cooling, additional powercard and smaller pulleys for more psi.
It's expensive ($2,695 to $3,695) but by all accounts is bolt on, with stock like driveability and everything you'd expect from the additional power. There is also supposed to be very good technical support for it both from the supplier and a dedicated forum.
It's not perfect because it's difficult/expensive to upgrade beyond the 190 kit, the induction pipe is very amateurish and it's expensive compared to alternatives.
The alternatives all seem to have their flaws though:
M45 hotside - needs a dual throttle body to run properly, limited power, doesn't seem to be available without paying for a power card (I'd rather use a more in depth management system), cannot use most aftermarket headers. On the plus side it's cheaper than the FFS CS MP62 and is easily upgradeable.
Rotrex - as expensive as the FFS coldside, limited power lower down the rpm band. On the plus side it's easy to fit and very easy to raise the power.
It comes in 3 options: bare bones, 165 WHP and 190 WHP. The bare bones kit is the same as the 165 WHP kit (which includes everything needed to get it fitted and running) minus the engine management (power card). The 190 WHP kit is the same as the 165 WHP kit plus a fifth injector for fueling/cooling, additional powercard and smaller pulleys for more psi.
It's expensive ($2,695 to $3,695) but by all accounts is bolt on, with stock like driveability and everything you'd expect from the additional power. There is also supposed to be very good technical support for it both from the supplier and a dedicated forum.
It's not perfect because it's difficult/expensive to upgrade beyond the 190 kit, the induction pipe is very amateurish and it's expensive compared to alternatives.
The alternatives all seem to have their flaws though:
M45 hotside - needs a dual throttle body to run properly, limited power, doesn't seem to be available without paying for a power card (I'd rather use a more in depth management system), cannot use most aftermarket headers. On the plus side it's cheaper than the FFS CS MP62 and is easily upgradeable.
Rotrex - as expensive as the FFS coldside, limited power lower down the rpm band. On the plus side it's easy to fit and very easy to raise the power.
I guess it's about how honest you can be with yourself - is 180-200bhp 'really' enough for you, or are you the sort of guy that once that level is reached, will 'get the bug' & want more?
I think that the answer to that question would dictate which option/s would be best for you.
For example if you do get cought by the bug then it would be far better to start off with the bigger MP62 rather than the M45, as you can achieve up to 250ish bhp with the bigger charger.
If 200bhp really is enough for you then the M45 is perfectly capable of providing this reliably & relatively cheaply when used with an intercooler & a decent ECU. Cheapest way to do this would be a 2nd hand charger off a mini with the fabricated brackets you can get via nutz & either a 2nd hand GReddy e-manage or a self build megasquirt + some kind of intercooler, you can even use a 2nd hand one from something like an Audi A3 TDI if you are keen to keen costs right down. I have one on mine, & together with an e-manage blue & bigger injectors am seeing over 200bhp on the rollers.
I think that the answer to that question would dictate which option/s would be best for you.
For example if you do get cought by the bug then it would be far better to start off with the bigger MP62 rather than the M45, as you can achieve up to 250ish bhp with the bigger charger.
If 200bhp really is enough for you then the M45 is perfectly capable of providing this reliably & relatively cheaply when used with an intercooler & a decent ECU. Cheapest way to do this would be a 2nd hand charger off a mini with the fabricated brackets you can get via nutz & either a 2nd hand GReddy e-manage or a self build megasquirt + some kind of intercooler, you can even use a 2nd hand one from something like an Audi A3 TDI if you are keen to keen costs right down. I have one on mine, & together with an e-manage blue & bigger injectors am seeing over 200bhp on the rollers.
How does your car drive though Pearcy, is it genuinely like standard for cold start, idle, part throttle, etc?
One of my main considerations that I want only improvements from going FI and no drawbacks (except from the unavoidable lower MPG if using the power) - I'm not interested in spending a lot of money to improve one area of a car only to find it compromises another aspect elsewhere.
One of my main considerations that I want only improvements from going FI and no drawbacks (except from the unavoidable lower MPG if using the power) - I'm not interested in spending a lot of money to improve one area of a car only to find it compromises another aspect elsewhere.
The car had idle droop issues prior to fitting dual throttle boddies & the fuelling was glitchy prior to being set up on the rolling road (felt rough + flat spots).
Now, I'd say that the idling is almost as good as a standard car - certainly doesn't stall. The fuelling's tons better & on the whole I think it drives very well - it's not a daily driver for me though & the whole car is quite 'focused' e.g. rose jointed drop links etc. so I might feel differently if I had to drive it as a daily driver. I guess being critical the way is reacts to a light throttle input is much more urgent than standard with makes it difficult to cruise along smoothly in slow moving traffic (below 30mph). On the whole, I'm very happy with it now it's sorted - don't underestimate the value of a 2 hour mapping session on the rollers (by someone who knows what they're doing with your particular ECU)...
Now, I'd say that the idling is almost as good as a standard car - certainly doesn't stall. The fuelling's tons better & on the whole I think it drives very well - it's not a daily driver for me though & the whole car is quite 'focused' e.g. rose jointed drop links etc. so I might feel differently if I had to drive it as a daily driver. I guess being critical the way is reacts to a light throttle input is much more urgent than standard with makes it difficult to cruise along smoothly in slow moving traffic (below 30mph). On the whole, I'm very happy with it now it's sorted - don't underestimate the value of a 2 hour mapping session on the rollers (by someone who knows what they're doing with your particular ECU)...
youngsyr said:
How does your car drive though Pearcy, is it genuinely like standard for cold start, idle, part throttle, etc?
One of my main considerations that I want only improvements from going FI and no drawbacks (except from the unavoidable lower MPG if using the power) - I'm not interested in spending a lot of money to improve one area of a car only to find it compromises another aspect elsewhere.
Personally, I'd expect lower MPG full stop. No matter how hard I try, or gentle I try to drive the MPG is down on a N/A model. You're always going to have a degree of boost present.One of my main considerations that I want only improvements from going FI and no drawbacks (except from the unavoidable lower MPG if using the power) - I'm not interested in spending a lot of money to improve one area of a car only to find it compromises another aspect elsewhere.
But anyway, your priorities should be along the lines of sod the MPG, bring on the power!
piefacemate said:
youngsyr said:
How does your car drive though Pearcy, is it genuinely like standard for cold start, idle, part throttle, etc?
One of my main considerations that I want only improvements from going FI and no drawbacks (except from the unavoidable lower MPG if using the power) - I'm not interested in spending a lot of money to improve one area of a car only to find it compromises another aspect elsewhere.
Personally, I'd expect lower MPG full stop. No matter how hard I try, or gentle I try to drive the MPG is down on a N/A model. You're always going to have a degree of boost present.One of my main considerations that I want only improvements from going FI and no drawbacks (except from the unavoidable lower MPG if using the power) - I'm not interested in spending a lot of money to improve one area of a car only to find it compromises another aspect elsewhere.
But anyway, your priorities should be along the lines of sod the MPG, bring on the power!
I hear that power cards are pretty bad for fuel economy and the M45 and MP62 have by-pass valves, so can be driven "off boost". I seem to recall reading that with a much more adjustable ECU/piggy back than the power card, you can get reasonable cruise mpg?
As I said though, I'm not that fussed about mpg - my other car will do around 8 mpg on 99 ron on track!
youngsyr said:
piefacemate said:
youngsyr said:
How does your car drive though Pearcy, is it genuinely like standard for cold start, idle, part throttle, etc?
One of my main considerations that I want only improvements from going FI and no drawbacks (except from the unavoidable lower MPG if using the power) - I'm not interested in spending a lot of money to improve one area of a car only to find it compromises another aspect elsewhere.
Personally, I'd expect lower MPG full stop. No matter how hard I try, or gentle I try to drive the MPG is down on a N/A model. You're always going to have a degree of boost present.One of my main considerations that I want only improvements from going FI and no drawbacks (except from the unavoidable lower MPG if using the power) - I'm not interested in spending a lot of money to improve one area of a car only to find it compromises another aspect elsewhere.
But anyway, your priorities should be along the lines of sod the MPG, bring on the power!
I hear that power cards are pretty bad for fuel economy and the M45 and MP62 have by-pass valves, so can be driven "off boost". I seem to recall reading that with a much more adjustable ECU/piggy back than the power card, you can get reasonable cruise mpg?
As I said though, I'm not that fussed about mpg - my other car will do around 8 mpg on 99 ron on track!
I'm using a full replacement ECU, a Link G4 in this case, so no piggy back unit that could account for poor MPG. The Link G4 is pretty damn expensive and very well rated, but I still don't get brilliant MPG.
One thing to bear in mind, the MX5 as standard is pretty fuel inefficient, and so I'd imagine poor MPG performance is exascerbated by the antiquated engine design.
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