Discussion
I've noticed on PH a lot of folks go on about how good the MX5 is for going sideways in, particularly in the wet and around roundabouts etc... I dont debate this... however, although I do get the odd squirm, I would say I've never really been sideways on the road, not properly - seems a bit risky to me - I'm always worried I will hit something and damage my car - I know its not worth much but still I dont have much money either.
At best, I might do a first gear blat out of a junction or a slight second gear squirm on a low speed corner or large roundabout, but only if theres nothing to hit.
I guess its a confidence thing, but I just haven't got the confidence yet, so I can only deduce that those who do it are either lying on here, or are much better drivers than I am - possible!
I've even been on the lookout for some nice empty car parks to practice in, but I rarely find any that are any good - most are too busy or its too risky.
I am more than capable of peddling the car along at a decent rate, but when it comes to oversteer, I am a little way of it. So is this oversteer thing as prolific as is made out, because out on the road, I've only ever seen a couple of '5s ever doing it... (and one was on standard 14s, I'm on the 15's so maybe too much grip).
I also seem to find it a little less intimidating in the dry TBH, as the car regains grip quite quickly, whereas it seems as though its a lot easier to lose it in the wet.
At best, I might do a first gear blat out of a junction or a slight second gear squirm on a low speed corner or large roundabout, but only if theres nothing to hit.
I guess its a confidence thing, but I just haven't got the confidence yet, so I can only deduce that those who do it are either lying on here, or are much better drivers than I am - possible!
I've even been on the lookout for some nice empty car parks to practice in, but I rarely find any that are any good - most are too busy or its too risky.
I am more than capable of peddling the car along at a decent rate, but when it comes to oversteer, I am a little way of it. So is this oversteer thing as prolific as is made out, because out on the road, I've only ever seen a couple of '5s ever doing it... (and one was on standard 14s, I'm on the 15's so maybe too much grip).
I also seem to find it a little less intimidating in the dry TBH, as the car regains grip quite quickly, whereas it seems as though its a lot easier to lose it in the wet.
Big grip difference between a Mk1 on low grip 185's and say, a MK2.5 on low pro 205's. The MK1 can be driven sideways everywhere and encourages so much confidence that anyone can - and will - poke the tail out at every safe opportunity. A MK2.5 on decent rubber grips so hard that you'll be cornering very quickly (in the dry) before it starts to slip - then it'll let go pretty sharpish and you need to be a bit lively to collect it.
Different game at a trackday, big run offs, high tyre temps and smooth surfaces mean that even 2.5's running R888's will slide at will.
I'd hit the track if I were you, learn your car (if the geo is out then it won't inspire slidey fun as much) and bring your new found confidence back to safe, deserted stretches of the highway.
Different game at a trackday, big run offs, high tyre temps and smooth surfaces mean that even 2.5's running R888's will slide at will.
I'd hit the track if I were you, learn your car (if the geo is out then it won't inspire slidey fun as much) and bring your new found confidence back to safe, deserted stretches of the highway.
My mk1 is on 15", 195 tyres - so half way house. I always thought the early ones with 14s must be so much easier to slide around... indeed, on a run with nutz, there was a guy there with a early mk1 with 14s and he was sliding all over the shop whereas mine was just gripping - seemed like I needed to be much more aggressive to lose grip.
Public roads are no place to be exploring the limits of a car's ability
Get on an airfield Training Day - Andy Walsh at carlimits.com is highly recommended. You'll learn and experience it all in completely safety without risk of hurting yourself, your car or even worse of course, an innocent third party
I suspect you will find the limits of your own ability way before that of the car
Get on an airfield Training Day - Andy Walsh at carlimits.com is highly recommended. You'll learn and experience it all in completely safety without risk of hurting yourself, your car or even worse of course, an innocent third party
I suspect you will find the limits of your own ability way before that of the car
I never found a great difference between the 185/14" and 195/15" - its more down to the specific tyres on the car. My previous one had kingstars on the back for a while, ok in the dry but a slight hint of moisture and it was epic sideways on demand.
Agreed that its safer to learn the relevant skills away from other traffic (which is where most of us indulge anyway) - this is your first RWD car yes? It takes a lot of practise to get good at it.
Agreed that its safer to learn the relevant skills away from other traffic (which is where most of us indulge anyway) - this is your first RWD car yes? It takes a lot of practise to get good at it.
Edited by GravelBen on Thursday 30th September 20:19
Most days coming back from work 2-3 times round a roundabout sideways, 2nd gear boosting hard, get it right hardly need to turn the wheel, pure right foot modulation, if its busy might only do it once, the 1st lap is the trickiest as tyres have too much grip, but once they are hot the next laps are easier, a great stress buster after a long day & I can highly recommend it.
Comedy budget tyres make it incredibly easy to get the back out in drizzly weather.
It also makes it easy to lock the front wheels up under heavy braking- like I did when I wasn't looking far enough ahead & the traffic stopped quite quickly.
If I had good tyres on, it wouldn't have been an issue as the braking was quite gentle
I had a bit of childish play time on the way home from work, I'm completely in awe of how controlable the car is on the limit- It feels very progressive in a slide.
Full alignment check, lowering & new (original) wheels with Dunlops being fitted tomorrow so that may well put the fun to bed.
It also makes it easy to lock the front wheels up under heavy braking- like I did when I wasn't looking far enough ahead & the traffic stopped quite quickly.
If I had good tyres on, it wouldn't have been an issue as the braking was quite gentle
I had a bit of childish play time on the way home from work, I'm completely in awe of how controlable the car is on the limit- It feels very progressive in a slide.
Full alignment check, lowering & new (original) wheels with Dunlops being fitted tomorrow so that may well put the fun to bed.
This is similar to my comments on the mazda meets tree thread. My mx5 with nanking rear tyres is oversteery on demand on roundabouts in second gear and light drizzle, quite fun but also can get to point of no return (with me behind the wheel!) and not so fun. In the dry very high limits with a very gentle oversteery drift out as limit of grip reached. Overall mx5 provides lot of entertainment at sane speeds, agree that airfield is the way to really get a handle on any cars at the limit.
pbirkett said:
I have Toyo T1Rs on mine, I feel like even in the wet I have to be quite brutal to go sideways even in the wet.... I'm too sensible ultimately :-o
That probably has something to do with it, T1Rs do grip well even in the wet. The LSD (I think yours has a torsen?) also improves traction, but can let go more sharply in comparison to an open diff car which will just spin away power through the inside wheel.
I have sticky tyres on mine and even with ~280bhp you still have to really provoke it to get oversteer on dry roads.
Edited by GravelBen on Friday 1st October 00:22
JFReturns said:
I've never been able to oversteer my MK1 unless at full throttle in first gear. That is on standard daisies with just legal ditchfinders.
I imagine a LSD makes it much easier to oversteer...?
Basically yes. An open diff like mine (and yours) is the "safer" option. Get aggressive with the right hand pedal while the wheel is turned at low speed and all you'll do is spin 1 rear wheel while the other stops the car sliding sideways.I imagine a LSD makes it much easier to oversteer...?
An LSD will allow you to spin both wheels, and thus neither has much grip to stop the car sliding sideways.
Given the way I drive....probably best I stick with an open diff....
Just find a deserted car park late at night and have a go. I find with my Mk2 with TorSen on 195/15 budget tyres you have to very aggressively drive it in first with a lot of lock to get it to go sideways in the dry and it's quite snappy whilst you are sliding.
I would bet it's a different story in the wet though.
I would bet it's a different story in the wet though.
youngsyr said:
Just find a deserted car park late at night and have a go. I find with my Mk2 with TorSen on 195/15 budget tyres you have to very aggressively drive it in first with a lot of lock to get it to go sideways in the dry and it's quite snappy whilst you are sliding.
I would bet it's a different story in the wet though.
I do try, but there aren't really many car parks that are big enough to have a real play in, and the ones that are unfortunately seem to have police stations very nearby where I live, so I'd probably end up with a Section 59 I would bet it's a different story in the wet though.
When I get the odd chance though I do have a bit hoon, but for me, it still doesn't really demonstrate how the car might react on different roads at speed.
You just need to find a suitable loose-surfaced road
I'm sure I've posted this before but here is my old practically standard (15"s and rollbar) Mk1 1.6 on a bit of gravel... going sideways comes pretty naturally when you've grown up with this stuff:
http://www.vimeo.com/8306432
More suggestions:
If you want to go really sideways with an MX5 its not just about booting the throttle and turning, you get better results with a bit more subtlety and smoothness - get it turned into the corner fairly hard, then get back into the throttle earlier than you'd usually consider sensible - before the apex for best results. Keep a reasonably light grip on the wheel so you can feel what the tyres are doing, and don't yank roughly on the steering to turn in or you can cause unwanted understeer. HTH - obviously this is best done in a safe environment and I take no responsibility if you get things wrong and crash while following my advice.
I'm sure I've posted this before but here is my old practically standard (15"s and rollbar) Mk1 1.6 on a bit of gravel... going sideways comes pretty naturally when you've grown up with this stuff:
http://www.vimeo.com/8306432
More suggestions:
If you want to go really sideways with an MX5 its not just about booting the throttle and turning, you get better results with a bit more subtlety and smoothness - get it turned into the corner fairly hard, then get back into the throttle earlier than you'd usually consider sensible - before the apex for best results. Keep a reasonably light grip on the wheel so you can feel what the tyres are doing, and don't yank roughly on the steering to turn in or you can cause unwanted understeer. HTH - obviously this is best done in a safe environment and I take no responsibility if you get things wrong and crash while following my advice.
I've commented on this before and been shot down in flames. Personally I never intentionally go sideways on a public road - the risks to my car, myself and other road (and footpath) users is just too great. There was a time when real fun could be had on the roads (my yoof was spent taking my old Viva, Cortina & P6 sideways around the country lanes of Norfolk) but it's just not worth it now. That's why I head for tracks & airfields. Having said that, as I like my car and don't want to ruin it even then I usually try to keep all wheels heading the same direction. I guess I just like the feeling of speed and cornering force more than I do the thrill of over-steer 
I won't even head for car-parks for fun now either - last time I did I was let off with a warning from the local plod as supermarket car parks are still regarded as the public highway and you can still be done for careless driving on them. Saying you are practising drifting to make it safer to go sideways on the road really doesn't make them any more sympathetic
I won't even head for car-parks for fun now either - last time I did I was let off with a warning from the local plod as supermarket car parks are still regarded as the public highway and you can still be done for careless driving on them. Saying you are practising drifting to make it safer to go sideways on the road really doesn't make them any more sympathetic
Edited by MX-5 Lazza on Friday 1st October 12:16
MX-5 Lazza said:
I won't even head for car-parks for fun now either - last time I did I was let off with a warning from the local plod as supermarket car parks are still regarded as the public highway and you can still be done for careless driving on them. Saying you are practising drifting to make it safer to go sideways on the road really doesn't make them any more sympathetic
Car parks aren't regarded as publich highways, but rather the driving without care and consideration legislation applies to public places as well as roads: The Law said:
If a person drives a mechanically propelled vehicle on a road or other public place without due care and attention, or without reasonable consideration for other persons using the road or place, he is guilty of an offence
It's all subjective obviously, but if there's no-one else using the place, it strikes me that you can't be found guilty of failing to consider them.Also, driving without due care & attention or careless driving don't have to involve anyone else. They can consider it to be dangerous driving is there is any risk to property or even just to yourself! Otherwise you could claim it's safe to 4-wheel-drift down motorway slip-roads as long as nobody else was on it at the time!
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