Total Newbie - Patek Philippe - how much

[Phil C]

Hi all,

I'm pretty ignorant about watches - but interested in purchasing a quality watch as a 'keeper'. Particularly like the classic style and understated elegance of Patek Philippe. What sort of price do these start at for decent secondhand? I'm not much bothered about model - just want a nice simple classy face and not really bothered about investment potential - although nice if it doesn't lose too much value.

Lastly - can anyone recommend a reputable dealer of such an item?

Thanks!

[Zod]

Think of the price of a good watch from a brand like IWC or Jaeger and multiply by three.

[Murcielago_Boy]

They're regarded as the worlds best watches. You're starting at the VERY top. Patek make 40,000 watches a year today, compared to 1.25M Rolexes etc.
Other high end stuff is either very blingtastic (and subject to going out of fashion rather rapidly) or simply lacks Pateks provenance and quality or both borne out by used values..
(for example I wouldn't be seen dead wearing a Richard Mille - horrible IMVHO).

The cheapest of the cheap PP's start at around £12,000 - and even they take a minimum 9 months to make. The party really starts with their more complicated pieces at £30,000 + and their grand complications and minute repeaters (which mechanically sound the time) are literally little mechanical engines on your wrist - these can go all the way to over £1m and take 2 years to make - you can't buy these unless the owner of the company signs you off - seriously. (and for that you need to have a few PP's already and they need to know you're not a "flipper")

No other brand holds it's value quite as well (at least HELD its value until recently). Rarer complicated Pateks were virtually an asset class, making the owner tens (or hundreds) of thousands at auction....but nothing lasts forever and that's changed with much of the newer stuff.

Good luck. And let us know which piece you end up buying.

P.S. Don't hesitate to buy used/vintages pieces if they take your fancy.... some rarer and better pieces (where your money will be safer) are actually decades old. In fact I would today.

"Bea" at Boodles in Knightsbridge is a star - she's been fantastic. Go and see her.

Edited by Murcielago_Boy on Friday 17th June 15:12

[Scalper]

Phil C said:

Hi all,

I'm pretty ignorant about watches - but interested in purchasing a quality watch as a 'keeper'. Particularly like the classic style and understated elegance of Patek Philippe. What sort of price do these start at for decent secondhand? I'm not much bothered about model - just want a nice simple classy face and not really bothered about investment potential - although nice if it doesn't lose too much value.

Lastly - can anyone recommend a reputable dealer of such an item?

Thanks!

As a first patek if you are looking for something simple and elegant you could opt for a classic calatrava Clous de Paris (ref. 3919, 5116, 5119, 3520, etc...) or one of the watches from the 96 series (ref. 96, 3796, 5196) which are both among the most iconic models in the calatrava collection. Expect second hand prices in the £5000-10000 region dpending on which model/metal you choose.

3919


5196


If instead you fancy a more complicated watch a 5035 annual calendar can be had from slightly over £11000 while the 5110 world time starts at around £15000

5035


5110

Personally if you are looking for a Patek I wouldn't recommend any dealer. Choose the watch you are after, search for it on the Internet (chrono24.com is a good starting point) and be prepared to travel. For the same identical watch, the price difference between dealers can be of several thousand pounds.
As a last note, if you are buying a recent watch you should prefer one that comes complete with its original box, certificate of origin, and full booklets.

Edited by Scalper on Sunday 19th June 11:42

Edited by Scalper on Sunday 19th June 11:42

[Phil C]

Thanks for the pictures and pricing guidance. The first two are close to what I am looking for - I like a nice, simple uncluttered face. I also marginally prefer square faces to round. I'm sure I have seen some square Patek models - are they more expensive?

[Scalper]

Phil C said:

Thanks for the pictures and pricing guidance. The first two are close to what I am looking for - I like a nice, simple uncluttered face. I also marginally prefer square faces to round. I'm sure I have seen some square Patek models - are they more expensive?

if you are after a squarish Patek have a look at the the Gondolo, and the Golden Ellipse. I'm not really familiar with them, if you want an idea about prices the best thing would be a search on chrono24.com
however if you are after a square watch, personally I would be more inclined to recommend a JLC Reverso rather than a Patek

[Phil C]

That's almost exactly what I was thinking of...... plenty of food for thought here - thanks very much all!!

[LongLiveTazio]

If you were looking at PP I would certainly consider Vacheron Constantin. IMO they are even more elegant and a comparable history.

[stevoknevo]

Scalper said:

if you are after a squarish Patek have a look at the the Gondolo,

The Gondolo is stunning! I'm not a huge fan of gold watches, however I'll make an exception for the Gondolo
Have a look at this thread from TZ http://www.tz-uk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t...

[Mr E Driver]

You might find this site useful http://www.europeanwatch.com/index.htm

[stiglet]

I had one for a while. One of the interesting things is that if you find one s/h with no papers, you (or the seller) can fax PP the model no. and serial nos of the case and movement.

They will then search their achives and provide an "Extract" giving details of when that particular watch was made etc etc.

It cost CHF100 and took a month or so but, to me it was worth it to establish the provenance of the watch

I never really liked the shape of mine (ellipse) but would have a 3919 or similar any day of the week

Happy hunting

JP

[sparkyhx]

wow
for someone who knows nothing you're jumping in at the deep end

[Scalper]

stiglet said:

I had one for a while. One of the interesting things is that if you find one s/h with no papers, you (or the seller) can fax PP the model no. and serial nos of the case and movement.

They will then search their achives and provide an "Extract" giving details of when that particular watch was made etc etc.

It cost CHF100 and took a month or so but, to me it was worth it to establish the provenance of the watch

I never really liked the shape of mine (ellipse) but would have a 3919 or similar any day of the week

Happy hunting

JP

Sorry but don't quite agree with that. IMHO an extract doesn't really add much to a watch.
Anybody can ask for an extract of the archives, even for a watch they don't own as long as they know the serial numbers. You could even have a fake watch that comes with an original extract

[stiglet]

Scalper said:

Sorry but don't quite agree with that. IMHO an extract doesn't really add much to a watch.
Anybody can ask for an extract of the archives, even for a watch they don't own as long as they know the serial numbers. You could even have a fake watch that comes with an original extract

Valid point - to a certain extent.

I bought my PP without box/papers albeit from a very reliable source. Most of the others in my (modest) collection have B & P so I thought I would get the next best thing

I went in to the local authorised Patek dealer who opened the watch up and sent me a note of the case, model and movement numbers. I faxed these to PP sent a cheque and got a nice letter from them along with the extract. I therefore have (1)Patek's letter in my name,(2) an extract certificate from them and (3)correspondence from a Patek dealer confirming they've opened up the watch and giving the case and movement numbers.

Whilst this may not "add much to a watch" I feel it was worth the 100 Swiss F that it cost me and if I bought another loose PP , I would do exactly the same again

Cheers

JP

[RichTT]

Scalper said:

Sorry but don't quite agree with that. IMHO an extract doesn't really add much to a watch.
Anybody can ask for an extract of the archives, even for a watch they don't own as long as they know the serial numbers. You could even have a fake watch that comes with an original extract

Two problems with your logic. First, replicas of high end brands such as PP are pretty awful. You would have to be absolutely ignorant about what you were buying to get ripped off in such a situation. Especially with the more classical designs. If you did have a fake watch with an extract, the chances of getting a fake S/N to match a genuine watch are even rarer unless the owner has gone to great length to have custom engraving done.