Discussion
Having tried to do exactly this a few years ago, I'd say that there's a chance you may be better off putting in the time to find the right ring with the right stone already set in it.
Once you've seen a few diamonds it can really be surprising the difference between stones that, on paper, you'd expect would look similar: some have just so much more life than others.
We formed the view that if we chose a stone that we liked and setting we liked that there was a risk that the combination would end up being less than the sum of the parts.
Once you've seen a few diamonds it can really be surprising the difference between stones that, on paper, you'd expect would look similar: some have just so much more life than others.
We formed the view that if we chose a stone that we liked and setting we liked that there was a risk that the combination would end up being less than the sum of the parts.
PM me if you want to chat about what you have in mind.
I'm not in the trade, but have helped many a PHer in their diamond and ring purchase.
companies i have used, and other PHers to create a custom ring are:
http://www.briangavindiamonds.com
and his blog here: http://blog.brianthecutter.com with many examples of his work.
Whiteflash.com
Goodoldgold.com
+ Equinox Design Studio which Nightmare works with...
Its more common in the USA to pick the diamond and ring separately than it is in the UK, so they are very used to creating custom rings, or modifying stock rings to suit. Importing is very easy, and usually is the same price or cheaper than sourcing in the UK
I'm not in the trade, but have helped many a PHer in their diamond and ring purchase.
companies i have used, and other PHers to create a custom ring are:
http://www.briangavindiamonds.com
and his blog here: http://blog.brianthecutter.com with many examples of his work.
Whiteflash.com
Goodoldgold.com
+ Equinox Design Studio which Nightmare works with...
Its more common in the USA to pick the diamond and ring separately than it is in the UK, so they are very used to creating custom rings, or modifying stock rings to suit. Importing is very easy, and usually is the same price or cheaper than sourcing in the UK
LooneyTunes said:
Having tried to do exactly this a few years ago, I'd say that there's a chance you may be better off putting in the time to find the right ring with the right stone already set in it.
Once you've seen a few diamonds it can really be surprising the difference between stones that, on paper, you'd expect would look similar: some have just so much more life than others.
We formed the view that if we chose a stone that we liked and setting we liked that there was a risk that the combination would end up being less than the sum of the parts.
I've spent a lot of time recently looking at diamonds and probably looked at 300-400 stones of the required spec. This is what I discovered:Once you've seen a few diamonds it can really be surprising the difference between stones that, on paper, you'd expect would look similar: some have just so much more life than others.
We formed the view that if we chose a stone that we liked and setting we liked that there was a risk that the combination would end up being less than the sum of the parts.
The vast majority of diamonds for sale by dealers and retailers are quite boring. Ask an average retailer to show you some one carat certified stones and chances are they will all be okay, but no better. It doesn't matter what the certificate says, even white high clarity stones rated by GIA as Excellent / Excellent / Excellent are sometimes not particularly exciting. But just occasionally you'll come across a stone that really dances. Out of those I looked at only a small handful stood out (five or so).
What I would term "workshop-centric" retailers seemed to have the biggest supplies of boring stones. The better ones tended to be in high-end retailers already made up in settings (usually engagement rings) and they usually wanted a premium for them.
The ideal scenario is to find the perfect stone and have a setting made to spec. However, this adds to the cost. Shops will happily take stones out of rings and re-set them, so long as it's worth their while. It is what I did and I got exactly what I wanted.
If you just go out and look at half a dozen stones, or buy on the stones stats, you'll almost certainly get an unexceptional stone.
There's an interesting economic situation going on with diamonds right now too. The cost of diamonds is rising yet retailers are struggling. So their increased stone replacement cost is at odds with their enthusiasm to cut a deal.
Manks said:
I've spent a lot of time recently looking at diamonds and probably looked at 300-400 stones of the required spec. This is what I discovered:
The vast majority of diamonds for sale by dealers and retailers are quite boring. Ask an average retailer to show you some one carat certified stones and chances are they will all be okay, but no better. It doesn't matter what the certificate says, even white high clarity stones rated by GIA as Excellent / Excellent / Excellent are sometimes not particularly exciting. But just occasionally you'll come across a stone that really dances. Out of those I looked at only a small handful stood out (five or so).
What I would term "workshop-centric" retailers seemed to have the biggest supplies of boring stones. The better ones tended to be in high-end retailers already made up in settings (usually engagement rings) and they usually wanted a premium for them.
The ideal scenario is to find the perfect stone and have a setting made to spec. However, this adds to the cost. Shops will happily take stones out of rings and re-set them, so long as it's worth their while. It is what I did and I got exactly what I wanted.
If you just go out and look at half a dozen stones, or buy on the stones stats, you'll almost certainly get an unexceptional stone.
There's an interesting economic situation going on with diamonds right now too. The cost of diamonds is rising yet retailers are struggling. So their increased stone replacement cost is at odds with their enthusiasm to cut a deal.
What you get is the wholesale diamonds dealers who supply all the retailers publish lists of the stones they have in stock. The cutting houses which cut these stones are cutting for maximum weight retention, especially when it comes to the price jump points - 0.25, 0.5, 1ct, 1.5ct, 2ct etc as the more it weights, the more it can be sold for. they are not concerned really with getting the cut of the diamond *exactly* perfect, but near enough.The vast majority of diamonds for sale by dealers and retailers are quite boring. Ask an average retailer to show you some one carat certified stones and chances are they will all be okay, but no better. It doesn't matter what the certificate says, even white high clarity stones rated by GIA as Excellent / Excellent / Excellent are sometimes not particularly exciting. But just occasionally you'll come across a stone that really dances. Out of those I looked at only a small handful stood out (five or so).
What I would term "workshop-centric" retailers seemed to have the biggest supplies of boring stones. The better ones tended to be in high-end retailers already made up in settings (usually engagement rings) and they usually wanted a premium for them.
The ideal scenario is to find the perfect stone and have a setting made to spec. However, this adds to the cost. Shops will happily take stones out of rings and re-set them, so long as it's worth their while. It is what I did and I got exactly what I wanted.
If you just go out and look at half a dozen stones, or buy on the stones stats, you'll almost certainly get an unexceptional stone.
There's an interesting economic situation going on with diamonds right now too. The cost of diamonds is rising yet retailers are struggling. So their increased stone replacement cost is at odds with their enthusiasm to cut a deal.
Alot of the more basic online diamond sellers you see basically just reproduce those lists on their website with a method of searching the list, but all the stones listed are 'virtual' stones, all held by the relevant wholeseller, without the online retailer having to hold any stock, they just call in the stone when a customer places an order - alot of these venders will have a clause to say if that stone isnt available then they will substute an equivalent stone (the lists are only updated every so often, so 2 different retailers may have sold the same stone before the list is updated.
The highstreet retailers will order a selection of stones from these same lists which they feel will meet their local market demands, on a sale and return basis. so they dont have a huge amount of money tied up in stock, and they look to have a high turn over with a changing window display.
If they have a customer who requests particular specs they dont have, then they can do the same as the online guys and call in a stone from the stock lists.
where things are different are with the more specialist jewelers who will select from a package of diamonds those for their inventory.
as an example of a bricks n motar shop (who also has an online presence) see http://www.goodoldgold.com - Jon will select stones for the shops inventory, and they have to meet his criteior for cut quality, so he only picks the ones that stand out from the normal dross.
there are other companies like Infinity Diamonds, Brian Gavin, Whiteflash, Hearts on Fire, Eighterity, Leo (Leo is a strange one, they sell stones through Earnest Jones, and i havent been inpress, but those i've seen sold in other countries have been alot better, and closer to the 'ideal' cutting guides) who have exclusivity deals with cutting houses (ID, BG and WF all have their own cutting houses, or get their stock from certain houses which cut to their specs.)
these vendors sell 'branded stones' ie they trade on the fact that they take extra time to cut a really well cut stone - and this is shown by their stones attaining the AGS Ideal or GIA excellent ratings, as well as their own internal grading.
For example - Brian Gavin's inspection of the cut is much tougher than the labs grading. But i havent seen a bad stone from him in the 7 years i have been looking at his inventory.
lord summerisle said:
What you get is the wholesale diamonds dealers who supply all the retailers publish lists of the stones they have in stock. The cutting houses which cut these stones are cutting for maximum weight retention, especially when it comes to the price jump points - 0.25, 0.5, 1ct, 1.5ct, 2ct etc as the more it weights, the more it can be sold for. they are not concerned really with getting the cut of the diamond *exactly* perfect, but near enough.
Alot of the more basic online diamond sellers you see basically just reproduce those lists on their website with a method of searching the list, but all the stones listed are 'virtual' stones, all held by the relevant wholeseller, without the online retailer having to hold any stock, they just call in the stone when a customer places an order - alot of these venders will have a clause to say if that stone isnt available then they will substute an equivalent stone (the lists are only updated every so often, so 2 different retailers may have sold the same stone before the list is updated.
The highstreet retailers will order a selection of stones from these same lists which they feel will meet their local market demands, on a sale and return basis. so they dont have a huge amount of money tied up in stock, and they look to have a high turn over with a changing window display.
If they have a customer who requests particular specs they dont have, then they can do the same as the online guys and call in a stone from the stock lists.
where things are different are with the more specialist jewelers who will select from a package of diamonds those for their inventory.
as an example of a bricks n motar shop (who also has an online presence) see http://www.goodoldgold.com - Jon will select stones for the shops inventory, and they have to meet his criteior for cut quality, so he only picks the ones that stand out from the normal dross.
there are other companies like Infinity Diamonds, Brian Gavin, Whiteflash, Hearts on Fire, Eighterity, Leo (Leo is a strange one, they sell stones through Earnest Jones, and i havent been inpress, but those i've seen sold in other countries have been alot better, and closer to the 'ideal' cutting guides) who have exclusivity deals with cutting houses (ID, BG and WF all have their own cutting houses, or get their stock from certain houses which cut to their specs.)
these vendors sell 'branded stones' ie they trade on the fact that they take extra time to cut a really well cut stone - and this is shown by their stones attaining the AGS Ideal or GIA excellent ratings, as well as their own internal grading.
For example - Brian Gavin's inspection of the cut is much tougher than the labs grading. But i havent seen a bad stone from him in the 7 years i have been looking at his inventory.
What I really wanted was a well cut SI1 stone with low colour (K or below) but I discovered them almost impossible to find. Everyone had whiter stones and I ended up with an E VS2. The only darker stones I found being antique older cuts with a culet.Alot of the more basic online diamond sellers you see basically just reproduce those lists on their website with a method of searching the list, but all the stones listed are 'virtual' stones, all held by the relevant wholeseller, without the online retailer having to hold any stock, they just call in the stone when a customer places an order - alot of these venders will have a clause to say if that stone isnt available then they will substute an equivalent stone (the lists are only updated every so often, so 2 different retailers may have sold the same stone before the list is updated.
The highstreet retailers will order a selection of stones from these same lists which they feel will meet their local market demands, on a sale and return basis. so they dont have a huge amount of money tied up in stock, and they look to have a high turn over with a changing window display.
If they have a customer who requests particular specs they dont have, then they can do the same as the online guys and call in a stone from the stock lists.
where things are different are with the more specialist jewelers who will select from a package of diamonds those for their inventory.
as an example of a bricks n motar shop (who also has an online presence) see http://www.goodoldgold.com - Jon will select stones for the shops inventory, and they have to meet his criteior for cut quality, so he only picks the ones that stand out from the normal dross.
there are other companies like Infinity Diamonds, Brian Gavin, Whiteflash, Hearts on Fire, Eighterity, Leo (Leo is a strange one, they sell stones through Earnest Jones, and i havent been inpress, but those i've seen sold in other countries have been alot better, and closer to the 'ideal' cutting guides) who have exclusivity deals with cutting houses (ID, BG and WF all have their own cutting houses, or get their stock from certain houses which cut to their specs.)
these vendors sell 'branded stones' ie they trade on the fact that they take extra time to cut a really well cut stone - and this is shown by their stones attaining the AGS Ideal or GIA excellent ratings, as well as their own internal grading.
For example - Brian Gavin's inspection of the cut is much tougher than the labs grading. But i havent seen a bad stone from him in the 7 years i have been looking at his inventory.
We purchased a stone and setting from Brian Gavin recently (based on LS's recommendation). The entire transaction was simplicity itself. The people at Brian Gavin delivered a faultless service - easy to contact, happy to talk you through options, and willing to make recommendations based on very specific requirements. I was very worried about the import implications, but again, it was extremely straight forward. The ring arrived within 48 hours of being shipped. Fed-Ex dealt with the import duties and VAT, called me to tell me the figures and I paid via telephone. All sorted before the ring arrived in the UK.
I had the ring valued today and it was over £2k more than we spent on it.
I'm wondering about spending the savings on another BG diamond, but I think I could be getting into a vicious circle
I had the ring valued today and it was over £2k more than we spent on it.
I'm wondering about spending the savings on another BG diamond, but I think I could be getting into a vicious circle
CBGB said:
We purchased a stone and setting from Brian Gavin recently (based on LS's recommendation). The entire transaction was simplicity itself. The people at Brian Gavin delivered a faultless service - easy to contact, happy to talk you through options, and willing to make recommendations based on very specific requirements. I was very worried about the import implications, but again, it was extremely straight forward. The ring arrived within 48 hours of being shipped. Fed-Ex dealt with the import duties and VAT, called me to tell me the figures and I paid via telephone. All sorted before the ring arrived in the UK.
I had the ring valued today and it was over £2k more than we spent on it.
I'm wondering about spending the savings on another BG diamond, but I think I could be getting into a vicious circle
As a percentage, what were the import duties and VAT and is sales tax deductible from his website prices?I had the ring valued today and it was over £2k more than we spent on it.
I'm wondering about spending the savings on another BG diamond, but I think I could be getting into a vicious circle
I have recently had the same problem as the OP. I walked up and down hatton garden as well as many more local high street jewellers and found much of tbe same thing. I was shocked at the low quality and high price tag of those rings in te jewellers. I did a lot of research and in the end bought a loose diamond from quality diamonds who have offices in hatton garden. It was the only place that I could find that could sell me exactly what I wanted. Also they were te only people who actually knew what they were selling. Not just colour and carat weight. I then had the diamond set at a local jewellers, making exactly what I wanted, to my drawing and spec. Very pleased. Let's hope the OH is when she gets it !!
We dealt with a family concern out in a Cotswold village, www.diamondgeezer.com. A lovely man. Bought a 1ct Colourless, internally flawless round brilliant, I think its GIA but cannot be certain without going and getting the docs out. He had it set in Platinum and adjusted/tweaked etc.
Great service and literally hundreds of stones to suit all tastes and budgets.
Call them and ask for Clive
A
Great service and literally hundreds of stones to suit all tastes and budgets.
Call them and ask for Clive
A
Manks said:
IIRC US states charge different rates of sales tax but it is deductible if the item is for export.
yep, the prices on most US diamond vendors sites are excluding sales tax, it is only added if it is to be shipped within the same state as the vendor.but as stated before the import duty is 2.5% then vat, plus about £10 for the courier fee for dealing with customs for you.
there is a page on the HM customs which tells you what they have set the Exchange rates at for that month, so your not subject to the daily changes. they match up to the rates on XE.com
lord summerisle said:
yep, the prices on most US diamond vendors sites are excluding sales tax, it is only added if it is to be shipped within the same state as the vendor.
but as stated before the import duty is 2.5% then vat, plus about £10 for the courier fee for dealing with customs for you.
there is a page on the HM customs which tells you what they have set the Exchange rates at for that month, so your not subject to the daily changes. they match up to the rates on XE.com
I've just done a like-for-like comparison between the stone I have just bought and one on Brian Gavin's site. The cost of the stone on its own would be 10% more from him than the stone PLUS the setting I bought. but as stated before the import duty is 2.5% then vat, plus about £10 for the courier fee for dealing with customs for you.
there is a page on the HM customs which tells you what they have set the Exchange rates at for that month, so your not subject to the daily changes. they match up to the rates on XE.com
Whilst I accept that buying from him might take out some of the leg work, there is also a risk that when the stone arrives it isn't quite what one wants.
It's a shame that there aren't more people like Brian in the UK though. We lag well behind the states where diamonds are concerned.
Give this company a call - http://www.equinoxjewellery.co.uk/
Ask to speak to Matt or Paul and explain what you want. Tell them Tony Brown recommended you. Matt made my wifes platinum engagement ring (I bought the diamond from Whiteflash thought the E/rate was 2:1 at the time) to my own design as well as her platinum wedding ring and my custom wedding band. Matt is a proper old fashioned jeweller and exceptionally skilled at what he does. He also works very closely with PHer Nightmare.
Ask to speak to Matt or Paul and explain what you want. Tell them Tony Brown recommended you. Matt made my wifes platinum engagement ring (I bought the diamond from Whiteflash thought the E/rate was 2:1 at the time) to my own design as well as her platinum wedding ring and my custom wedding band. Matt is a proper old fashioned jeweller and exceptionally skilled at what he does. He also works very closely with PHer Nightmare.
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