IWC pilot - are they unloved?

[Adam B]

I like watches as much as the next man, but have little knowledge other than I know what I like and have bought my 2 because I like their design pure and simple.

Purely by chance both my SS daytona and my near bottom of the range Panerai are worth more than I paid, the daytona considerably more. Its irrelevant to me as they are not financial investments and I have no plans to sell them.

So I have an inherited a small amount and want to buy a 3rd watch and am thinking of an IWC Pilot chrono for no other reason that I like it and I thought IWC are a respected brand who make quality timepieces



So why am I able to get brand new ones for £2700 rather than the RRP £3800? Do the make too many of them, do all IWC depreciate quickly or am I picking the wrong model or even marque if i want a watch that will hold its value? As i said it is not why I am choosing the watch but I am just curious, and am interested in the perceived quality of the IWC brand.

Edited by Adam B on Friday 29th July 00:45

[Helicopter123]

I've thought about this as well - that's a lovely looking watch but why are they not holding value?

Panarai seem to be flavour of the month in the City.

Edited by Helicopter123 on Thursday 28th July 08:54

[curley]

I have one of those ( a 3717) wear it nearly every day . Quality metal bracelet and timeless appeal .

If you like it why bother about resale . I have had mine 3 or 4 years and it worth more than I paid because the list prices just keep drifting up but that's not why I bought it .

[Riff Raff]

There's a bit of movement snobbery I think. That IWC has a Valjoux 7750 in it........


OK, it's an IWC tarted up 7750, but it's still a 7750.

Edited for shpelling.

Edited by Riff Raff on Thursday 28th July 08:44

[GC8]

Their values will go up eventually Im sure. The most valuable Rolex watches are the ones that no one really wanted when they were current...

[LukeBird]

Riff Raff said:

There's a bit of movement snobbery I think. That IWC has a Valjoux 7750 in it........


OK, it's an IWC tarted up 7750, but it's still a 7750.

This.

[cho]

Unless you are thinking of re-selling don't worry about if it will appreciate or not. Most watches lose about 50%(if selling to a watch dealer)out of the door. The pilot is a relatively mass market model so will not hold value too well and is not a particularly in demand watch.

Obviously the movement plays a part but even watches like richard mille lose shed loads and they make their own movements

[Adam B]

Riff Raff said:

There's a bit of movement snobbery I think. That IWC has a Valjoux 7750 in it........


OK, it's an IWC tarted up 7750, but it's still a 7750.

Edited for shpelling.

Edited by Riff Raff on Thursday 28th July 08:44

Thank you, that simultaneously makes no sense and perfect sense

[Riff Raff]

Adam B said:

Riff Raff said:

There's a bit of movement snobbery I think. That IWC has a Valjoux 7750 in it........


OK, it's an IWC tarted up 7750, but it's still a 7750.

Edited for shpelling.

Edited by Riff Raff on Thursday 28th July 08:44

Thank you, that simultaneously makes no sense and perfect sense

Not quite sure why it makes no sense.

The plain fact of the matter is that where a manufacturer makes a range of watches, some based on their in-house movements and some based on bought in ebauches, then the ones with the in-house movements will hold their value better. Movement snobbery exists in the WIS community. If it makes no sense to you well I'm sorry, but that's how it is.

You'll learn after you get burned a few times.

[DS3R]

LukeBird said:

Riff Raff said:

There's a bit of movement snobbery I think. That IWC has a Valjoux 7750 in it........


OK, it's an IWC tarted up 7750, but it's still a 7750.

This.

I'm pretty sure this model has no display back...

[Adam B]

Riff Raff said:

Not quite sure why it makes no sense.

The plain fact of the matter is that where a manufacturer makes a range of watches, some based on their in-house movements and some based on bought in ebauches, then the ones with the in-house movements will hold their value better. Movement snobbery exists in the WIS community. If it makes no sense to you well I'm sorry, but that's how it is.

You'll learn after you get burned a few times.

my humour has evaded you, I appreciate you explanation greatly, however I have no idea what a Valjoux 7750 or ebauche is.

so basically in-house movement is good, bought in is bad - are all IWC watches made with bought in movements?

[GC8]

An ebauche is a part finished movement. Valjoux are a movement (also called a calibre) manufacturer, now part of ETA (also a movement manufacturer) which is part of the Swatch group.

A Valjoux 7750 is a popular chronograph movement.


HTH

[Adam B]

DS3R said:

I'm pretty sure this model has no display back...

if you are talking IWC pilot it does not.

So I invested some time in reading this:

http://www.chronomaddox.com/valjoux_7750_engine.ht...

and a lot of respected brands apparently use this movement - Omega, Breitling, Panerai, Baume & Mercier, Frank Muller, Sinn, Bell & Ross

I am interested to learn what are the superior movement alternatives?

[dom9]

I have an IWC Spitfire Chrono, so virtually identical...

I picked it up literally the week it was released after Basel in the 42mm case...

I think I only paid GBP1,950 at Heathrow for it! They have almost doubled now from there on RRP?!?!?

Possibly another reason... People begrudge paying that much more (though mine must be around 5 years old) now?

[DS3R]

Adam B said:

if you are talking IWC pilot it does not.

So I invested some time in reading this:

http://www.chronomaddox.com/valjoux_7750_engine.ht...

and a lot of respected brands apparently use this movement - Omega, Breitling, Panerai, Baume & Mercier, Frank Muller, Sinn, Bell & Ross

I am interested to learn what are the superior movement alternatives?

It's not that the 7750 is a bad movement- it's just that if it's the same as everyone else uses, it's hardly something to show off.

This link from a few weeks ago has- admittedly opinion- but opinion from someone who really knows what they're talking about:

http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...

[cho]

Unless you are thinking of re-selling don't worry about if it will appreciate or not. Most watches lose about 50%(if selling to a watch dealer)out of the door. The pilot is a relatively mass market model so will not hold value too well and is not a particularly in demand watch.

Obviously the movement plays a part but even watches like richard mille lose shed loads and they make their own movements

[Riff Raff]

Adam B said:

Riff Raff said:

Not quite sure why it makes no sense.

The plain fact of the matter is that where a manufacturer makes a range of watches, some based on their in-house movements and some based on bought in ebauches, then the ones with the in-house movements will hold their value better. Movement snobbery exists in the WIS community. If it makes no sense to you well I'm sorry, but that's how it is.

You'll learn after you get burned a few times.

my humour has evaded you, I appreciate you explanation greatly, however I have no idea what a Valjoux 7750 or ebauche is.

so basically in-house movement is good, bought in is bad - are all IWC watches made with bought in movements?

If I came across as being a bit tetchy - sorry. I shouldn't post late at night after drinking too much.

Others have explained the ebauche/movement thing, so I won't do that again.

Taking your second question 'so basically in-house movement is good, bought in is bad', the answer to that is no not really. Both are perfectly good things to own and to wear. It's just as I said, and as others have elaborated on, in the used watch market, a watch with an in house movement will command a premium over one that is based on a bought n ebauche, and will more then likely be easier to shift too. I have nothing against the 7750 personally - in point of fact I have three watches that use that movement. A Breitling, an Omega and a Panerai. In the link that someone posted it was described as the AK47 of watch movements, and that's not a bad description IMHO. Rugged, reliable, not pretty but effective.

Turning back to the resale value for a minute, lets look at my Panerai. It's a PAM240, which uses a Panerai tarted up version of a 7750. But it's still a 7750 in its DNA, and if I were to try to sell it, I'd find it harder to shift than say a 312 (which uses a true panerai designed and built movement), and despite costing not much less than a 312 when it was new, will fetch a lot less on the second hand market. This seems odd - that people will pay a premium for something you can't (and more than likely won't ever) see, but there you go. That's WISery.

Turning back to your Pilot, as you don't seem to be a serial flipper, and you obviously haven't developed the movement snobbery thing, then if you like the watch, buy it, wear it, enjoy it. I'd have one.

[Spice_Weasel]

I too have the Spitfire Chrono (3717-02) with the silver dial, as opposed to the 3717-01 the OP refers to. Other than the dial and hand colours, it is identical to the black dial version.

It's probably my favourite watch at the moment, is beautifully made and is less chunky (ie tall) than many other 7750-based watches, so can be worn with a shirt/double cuff. As has been mentioned, IWC does, by all accounts, significantly personalise the movement which is delivered as components and assembled in-house (with some components replaced completely) rather than delivered as a completed and assembled movement ready to drop into a case.

I love mine and bought it earlier this year as a pre-owned but rarely-worn item for £1000 less than the current list price. I think at these prices they are a good buy. As Dom9 mentions, significant price rises in the last few years have seen them rise from the £2K ish mark five years ago, up through £2.5k 2/3 years ago to approx £3.5k now (depending on strap/bracelet choice).

If you do get one, I don't think you will be disappointed.

[Adam B]

Riff Raff said:

Turning back to your Pilot, as you don't seem to be a serial flipper, and you obviously haven't developed the movement snobbery thing, then if you like the watch, buy it, wear it, enjoy it. I'd have one.

Thanks all for the information especially riff raff (no offence taken at all) and i appreciate the time taken. Have always admired the craftsmanship and design thought that goes into watches but part of me has always deliberately avoided become educated so I didn't become a watch snob and form an expensive habit. I can see it is easily done from being on here!

I got very lucky on my Daytona and could never justify the current 7k rrp. The sums I have spent are meaningful for me so I want to buy something that is a keeper.

See my other thread on IWC, I went with an aquatimer, the pilot was very nice but more svelte than I imagined, actually thought the weight/slim suited the spitfire (pale face, brown strap) more.

[NJH]

I think the point that is being missed is that there are similar style watches available also using the same base movement but at a fraction of the price. OK they almost certainly won't have the same attention to fine finishing as the but its a fraction of the price for something very similar;
http://www.archimede-uhren.de/EN/Pilot-Chrono.htm

Personally I just don't like that movement, had a couple of watches with it and the noisy rotor and infamous wobble on the wrist caused by the rotor did my head in. OK IWC might do all kinds of things to enhance it but the rep it has is for being noisy and unrefined.