Dilemma: Sub or PO + Monaco?
Discussion
Been thinking about a new watch for a while now. Just been to Mappin & Webb. I was thinking I'd get a new ceramic Sub date if I could get any kind of discount. This is seemingly unlikely.
As a watch, I can't choose between the Omega PO 42mm or the ceramic Sub. I possibly marginally prefer the PO, as the strap feels better quality, longer service intervals, better lume (?), and the co-axial movement strikes me as more advanced technology. However, I love the Rolex - it's more exclusive, timeless design, and what sits better with me is that it is a much better store of value, and will appreciate, unlike the PO.
I've always loved the Tag Heuer Monaco too, and it would be ideal as a second, dress watch, with true Motorsport heritage. I could potentially get the Monaco (WW2110 Calibre 6) with the price difference between the PO and the Sub. I could also probably get a discount on those two, especially if bought at the same time? Whereas I wouldn't get any discount on a sub.
I'd appreciate your thoughts on the the store of value potential of these two options long term? Also, any purchasing strategies? I am going through Heathrow T3 in 2 weeks?
As a watch, I can't choose between the Omega PO 42mm or the ceramic Sub. I possibly marginally prefer the PO, as the strap feels better quality, longer service intervals, better lume (?), and the co-axial movement strikes me as more advanced technology. However, I love the Rolex - it's more exclusive, timeless design, and what sits better with me is that it is a much better store of value, and will appreciate, unlike the PO.
I've always loved the Tag Heuer Monaco too, and it would be ideal as a second, dress watch, with true Motorsport heritage. I could potentially get the Monaco (WW2110 Calibre 6) with the price difference between the PO and the Sub. I could also probably get a discount on those two, especially if bought at the same time? Whereas I wouldn't get any discount on a sub.
I'd appreciate your thoughts on the the store of value potential of these two options long term? Also, any purchasing strategies? I am going through Heathrow T3 in 2 weeks?
Never owned a Rolex but have a PO, and recently sold a Monaco.
I love the PO, it's a sturdy thing and I wear it as my main watch. My Monaco was lovely, a proper blue faced Monaco on blue crocodile and was only taken out for special occasions. The thing is that it got so little use, I don't actually miss it.
I could never sell the PO which may help you make your mind up....
Paul
I love the PO, it's a sturdy thing and I wear it as my main watch. My Monaco was lovely, a proper blue faced Monaco on blue crocodile and was only taken out for special occasions. The thing is that it got so little use, I don't actually miss it.
I could never sell the PO which may help you make your mind up....
Paul
Sorry, hang on......Rolex and exclusivity are never two words to be used in the same sentence – not when they make circa 850K of the buggers each year!
You want exclusive and better value for your money, you look at Grand Seikos, or Glashutte Originals around the same money.
In both instances, the fit and finish will show Rolex the door, but, and it can be an important but, due to Rolex's manipulation of the market with their annual price increases, you'll be able to get more of your money back should you need to liquidate it.
If you genuinely are interested in watches, not just the image associated with particular brand names, then you would consider the two I've mentioned, along with others – especially used.
If you're only concerned about your street cred, then Rolex is the default (and only) answer.
FWIW, Omega also make 6-700K+ per annum, and have been trying the same push on prices – but then as they too are part of Swatch Group, like Rolex, it's not a surprise really.
By comparison, Seiko (in respect of the GS) and GO make around 10K annually – all hand finished and assembled.
You want exclusive and better value for your money, you look at Grand Seikos, or Glashutte Originals around the same money.
In both instances, the fit and finish will show Rolex the door, but, and it can be an important but, due to Rolex's manipulation of the market with their annual price increases, you'll be able to get more of your money back should you need to liquidate it.
If you genuinely are interested in watches, not just the image associated with particular brand names, then you would consider the two I've mentioned, along with others – especially used.
If you're only concerned about your street cred, then Rolex is the default (and only) answer.
FWIW, Omega also make 6-700K+ per annum, and have been trying the same push on prices – but then as they too are part of Swatch Group, like Rolex, it's not a surprise really.
By comparison, Seiko (in respect of the GS) and GO make around 10K annually – all hand finished and assembled.
I have a 1985 Sub and the best thing I like about it is it's so comfortable to wear. The new model is not so. I have owned the 42 and the 46 mm PO and while they are very nice well made watches, they do not move me like the Sub does. As said you have the benefit of the Sub retaining and also increasing in value. The Sub is the one watch I will never sell it will be handed down to my Grandson after it's rebuilt for the second time by Rolex.
[/quote]FWIW, Omega also make 6-700K+ per annum, and have been trying the same push on prices – but then as they too are part of Swatch Group, like Rolex, it's not a surprise really.
By comparison, Seiko (in respect of the GS) and GO make around 10K annually – all hand finished and assembled.
[/quote]
Are Rolex part of the Swatch group? I didn't think this was the case, but I may also have misinterpreted the statement.
"Swatch Group brands
Breguet, Harry Winston, Blancpain, Glashütte Original, Jaquet Droz, Léon Hatot, Omega, Longines, Rado, Union Glashütte, Tissot, Balmain, Certina, Mido, Hamilton, Calvin Klein watches + jewelry, Swatch, Flik Flak"
In response to the original question, I would recommend that you buy which ever feels the most special to you. It's your money and will be your watch.
If you buy the Sub and don't feel it's right for you, then you could trade it for the Omega and Tag without a big financial loss, if any.
PJ S said:
Sorry, hang on......Rolex and exclusivity are never two words to be used in the same sentence – not when they make circa 850K of the buggers each year!
You want exclusive and better value for your money, you look at Grand Seikos, or Glashutte Originals around the same money.
In both instances, the fit and finish will show Rolex the door, but, and it can be an important but, due to Rolex's manipulation of the market with their annual price increases, you'll be able to get more of your money back should you need to liquidate it.
FWIW, Omega also make 6-700K+ per annum, and have been trying the same push on prices – but then as they too are part of Swatch Group, like Rolex, it's not a surprise really.
By comparison, Seiko (in respect of the GS) and GO make around 10K annually – all hand finished and assembled.
Why do you always have to recommend a Grand Seiko even when the OP obviously doesn't want one? And then for wanting a Rolex more than a Grand Seiko you imply that it makes him vain.You want exclusive and better value for your money, you look at Grand Seikos, or Glashutte Originals around the same money.
In both instances, the fit and finish will show Rolex the door, but, and it can be an important but, due to Rolex's manipulation of the market with their annual price increases, you'll be able to get more of your money back should you need to liquidate it.
FWIW, Omega also make 6-700K+ per annum, and have been trying the same push on prices – but then as they too are part of Swatch Group, like Rolex, it's not a surprise really.
By comparison, Seiko (in respect of the GS) and GO make around 10K annually – all hand finished and assembled.
And when did Rolex become part of Swatch?
I'd go for the rolex to be honest, I was in a similar predicament last month, got an omega for a good price and now wish I had got the rolex.
PJ S said:
FWIW, Omega also make 6-700K+ per annum, and have been trying the same push on prices – but then as they too are part of Swatch Group, like Rolex, it's not a surprise really.
By comparison, Seiko (in respect of the GS) and GO make around 10K annually – all hand finished and assembled.
Are Rolex part of the Swatch group? I didn't think this was the case, but I may also have misinterpreted the statement.
"Swatch Group brands
Breguet, Harry Winston, Blancpain, Glashütte Original, Jaquet Droz, Léon Hatot, Omega, Longines, Rado, Union Glashütte, Tissot, Balmain, Certina, Mido, Hamilton, Calvin Klein watches + jewelry, Swatch, Flik Flak"
In response to the original question, I would recommend that you buy which ever feels the most special to you. It's your money and will be your watch.
If you buy the Sub and don't feel it's right for you, then you could trade it for the Omega and Tag without a big financial loss, if any.
I just knew the poster of this would drive a Lexus!By comparison, Seiko (in respect of the GS) and GO make around 10K annually – all hand finished and assembled.
Are Rolex part of the Swatch group? I didn't think this was the case, but I may also have misinterpreted the statement.
"Swatch Group brands
Breguet, Harry Winston, Blancpain, Glashütte Original, Jaquet Droz, Léon Hatot, Omega, Longines, Rado, Union Glashütte, Tissot, Balmain, Certina, Mido, Hamilton, Calvin Klein watches + jewelry, Swatch, Flik Flak"
In response to the original question, I would recommend that you buy which ever feels the most special to you. It's your money and will be your watch.
If you buy the Sub and don't feel it's right for you, then you could trade it for the Omega and Tag without a big financial loss, if any.
Edited by jhw333 on Saturday 19th October 15:01
JRewing said:
Why do you always have to recommend a Grand Seiko even when the OP obviously doesn't want one? And then for wanting a Rolex more than a Grand Seiko you imply that it makes him vain.
Always? Care to highlight this "always" so we/I can see how accurate a statement that is?If you'd bothered to read all that I wrote, you'd see GO is mentioned too – would you have preferred a 10, 15, 30 list of other alternatives? – brands the OP may have no clue of even existing, which when researched, may offer him something more than the standard default of Rolex or Omega.
And while you're at it, point out exactly which comment that implies the OP is vain......I'm waiting with baited breath! Oh, but do so once you've read the OP's post first, just to remind yourself of who said what.
If you're going to try and make a t
t of someone, it's pretty helpful to not make yourself sound like one in the process – idiot!JRewing said:
And when did Rolex become part of Swatch?
You're right, brain fart moment – Rolex is independent.jhw333 said:
I just knew the poster of this would drive a Lexus!
At least this poster can get the quotes right!But that aside, I'd guarantee you'd no idea until you looked at my profile or read another thread recently, where it was mentioned.
BTW, I've not bothered to check your profile – you don't interest me enough to warrant doing so.
PJ S said:
In both instances, the fit and finish will show Rolex the door, but, and it can be an important but, due to Rolex's manipulation of the market with their annual price increases, you'll be able to get more of your money back should you need to liquidate it.
If you genuinely are interested in watches, not just the image associated with particular brand names, then you would consider the two I've mentioned, along with others – especially used.
If you're only concerned about your street cred, then Rolex is the default (and only) answer.
FWIW, Omega also make 6-700K+ per annum, and have been trying the same push on prices – but then as they too are part of Swatch Group, like Rolex, it's not a surprise really.
By comparison, Seiko (in respect of the GS) and GO make around 10K annually – all hand finished and assembled.
I don't want to make you look like a tIf you genuinely are interested in watches, not just the image associated with particular brand names, then you would consider the two I've mentioned, along with others – especially used.
If you're only concerned about your street cred, then Rolex is the default (and only) answer.
FWIW, Omega also make 6-700K+ per annum, and have been trying the same push on prices – but then as they too are part of Swatch Group, like Rolex, it's not a surprise really.
By comparison, Seiko (in respect of the GS) and GO make around 10K annually – all hand finished and assembled.
t, please don't misunderstand me.The first two paragraphs quoted here show how you're trying to imply that choosing a Rolex rather than a Grand Seiko is purely a question of vanity. Ok then, I'll be fair. 90% vanity, 10% resale value. It simply seems slightly judgmental. It's probably correct in the case of the majority of buyers though.
For myself, I really can't find any Grand Seiko models I find as attractive aesthetically as the Rolex equivalents. And I was always told about the excellence of the finish, which just isn't as arresting as people make out. But then I would never drive a Lexus as I find them similarly dull.
I must say that having owned several Rolex and one Omega, I'm more of a Rolex fan. I would go for the Rolex given this dilemma. You'll end up disappointed with the Omega.
"Buy Rolex or buy twice"? What twaddle. 
If you really want a Sub (or 'any Rolex') get the Sub as, in that case, you probably WILL 'buy Rolex or buy twice', but if you want a watch to wear and enjoy for yourself and not what your mates/colleagues/strangers might think then choose the one(s) you like best, pure and simple.
If you're just worrying about resale value, reassess whether any of these watches are really what you want.
Personally, I'd take the Monaco (and save the rest) over a boring old Sub any day, but that's just my view
M.
If you really want a Sub (or 'any Rolex') get the Sub as, in that case, you probably WILL 'buy Rolex or buy twice', but if you want a watch to wear and enjoy for yourself and not what your mates/colleagues/strangers might think then choose the one(s) you like best, pure and simple.
If you're just worrying about resale value, reassess whether any of these watches are really what you want.
Personally, I'd take the Monaco (and save the rest) over a boring old Sub any day, but that's just my view
M.
JRewing said:
The first two paragraphs quoted here show how you're trying to imply that choosing a Rolex rather than a Grand Seiko is purely a question of vanity. Ok then, I'll be fair. 90% vanity, 10% resale value. It simply seems slightly judgmental. It's probably correct in the case of the majority of buyers though.
For myself, I really can't find any Grand Seiko models I find as attractive aesthetically as the Rolex equivalents. And I was always told about the excellence of the finish, which just isn't as arresting as people make out. But then I would never drive a Lexus as I find them similarly dull.
I don't know what my choice of car has to do with watches, but somehow they seem to be inextricably linked, much to my chagrin.For myself, I really can't find any Grand Seiko models I find as attractive aesthetically as the Rolex equivalents. And I was always told about the excellence of the finish, which just isn't as arresting as people make out. But then I would never drive a Lexus as I find them similarly dull.
I think you're reading into my comments more than what's been written – I thought I covered all the bases, especially when the OP (and no disrespect to him) displayed a level of ignorance by remarking about Rolex's exclusivity.
A mass produced item, luxury or otherwise, is never going to be exclusive, apart from those who don't have the money to comfortably afford them.
Ergo, my suggestion to do research on Grand Seiko and Glashutte Original, but to name two, may show him something neither Rolex nor Omega does – certainly as far as Seiko's Spring Drive movement, or the sublime GO design and finishing.
Both would offer true exclusivity, if that's something which appealed, but I offset that against the reality of why many people do gravitate towards Rolex – brand recognition and surety that it'll retain more of its value should he unfortunately need to cash it in.
It'd be daft to dismiss that being seen wearing a Rolex gives others around you an idea of how well you're doing financially in life – something the OP may feel is required to demonstrate to those he comes into contact with, in an attempt to feel inclusive or accepted.
We did this topic not that long ago, iirc, where the OP of that thread was in a bit of a quandary about having something noticeable or recognisable as being of fundamental importance to his clients.
But, if the OP here is under no such restrictions, then maybe it's a simple lack of knowledge of other brands that prevents him from seeing beyond the three he mentioned for consideration.
Surely the point of a forum, is to discuss things that interest you, and to share that with others?
I don't see the appeal of Rolex – they look decent enough for the main part (would sooner have the current Aqua Terra though) – and I wouldn't put anyone down for choosing to own one, as that's their prerogative, but I won't shy away from telling them (better) alternatives exist for similar or less money. What they then do with the information thereafter, is entirely up to them, and for some, they will be grateful that they have had their eyes open to other possible candidates.
I don't know why this thread turned into a bit of a slanging match/battlefield, but hopefully the above sets things straight, and the OP can now come back to us with where he's at in his horological knowledge and if the three he has latched on to are for solely for him, or to portray a certain image to those he interacts with, and if they're keepers or not.
Edited by PJ S on Saturday 19th October 14:34
This does come up a lot; chap gets a bit of money together and wants a nice watch. Predictable safe choices they've heard of like Rolex, Omega, TAG are on their list.
These people do NOT want a Grand Seiko or a GO as their first watch, those are choices that people MIGHT make who've been collecting for years and are perhaps disillusioned with the classic Swiss brands. They're not for people whom want a first prestigious watch. And you know it
These people do NOT want a Grand Seiko or a GO as their first watch, those are choices that people MIGHT make who've been collecting for years and are perhaps disillusioned with the classic Swiss brands. They're not for people whom want a first prestigious watch. And you know it
HammerCJ said:
I'd appreciate your thoughts on the the store of value potential of these two options long term? Also, any purchasing strategies?
The Sub will hold it's value best - in fact, look after it & in 5 to 10 years it could well be worth more than you pay for a new one with no discount.Buy pre-owned.
Ask Dominic Hackett to sort you a deal.
PJ S said:
At least this poster can get the quotes right!
But that aside, I'd guarantee you'd no idea until you looked at my profile or read another thread recently, where it was mentioned.
BTW, I've not bothered to check your profile – you don't interest me enough to warrant doing so.
I did, I just knew you'd drive a lexus and had to check, nothing detrimental.But that aside, I'd guarantee you'd no idea until you looked at my profile or read another thread recently, where it was mentioned.
BTW, I've not bothered to check your profile – you don't interest me enough to warrant doing so.
yeti said:
This does come up a lot; chap gets a bit of money together and wants a nice watch. Predictable safe choices they've heard of like Rolex, Omega, TAG are on their list.
These people do NOT want a Grand Seiko or a GO as their first watch, those are choices that people MIGHT make who've been collecting for years and are perhaps disillusioned with the classic Swiss brands. They're not for people whom want a first prestigious watch. And you know it
Not sure I entirely agree, depends on the person. Some will opt for the safe approach, others (certainly myself) will learn as much about the new subject matter, and from there, make a more informed choice – even if it ends up being the default option.These people do NOT want a Grand Seiko or a GO as their first watch, those are choices that people MIGHT make who've been collecting for years and are perhaps disillusioned with the classic Swiss brands. They're not for people whom want a first prestigious watch. And you know it
Of course, if the OP's plan is to only buy from Heathrow's Duty Free shop, then Grand Seiko and Glashutte Original are completely off the table, but depending on where he's headed, he could net himself a nice pre-owned GS/GO from across the pond, at a lovely price.
I don't think one has to become disillusioned or anything, sometimes it's just about treading your own path or liking something different from "the norm".
Edited by PJ S on Saturday 19th October 15:12
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