Discussion
If you don't want a winder ytou need to hand wind every 1-2 days.
I have a Omega AT that i don't keep wound. There is lots of conversation around winders on watch forums.
Ultimately i don't think it makes a difference. I wear mine twice a month ish or wind every now and again to keep the oil from clogging (which is unlikely anyway).
Stu
I have a Omega AT that i don't keep wound. There is lots of conversation around winders on watch forums.
Ultimately i don't think it makes a difference. I wear mine twice a month ish or wind every now and again to keep the oil from clogging (which is unlikely anyway).
Stu
stuno1 said:
If you don't want a winder ytou need to hand wind every 1-2 days.
I have a Omega AT that i don't keep wound. There is lots of conversation around winders on watch forums.
Ultimately i don't think it makes a difference. I wear mine twice a month ish or wind every now and again to keep the oil from clogging (which is unlikely anyway).
Stu
I'm not sure I understand this clogging thing. I've got cans of oil in the garage ranging from very thin to very viscous. It doesn't disintegrate in the cans. Why would being inside a non running watch in what is effectively a hermetically sealed environment be any different?I have a Omega AT that i don't keep wound. There is lots of conversation around winders on watch forums.
Ultimately i don't think it makes a difference. I wear mine twice a month ish or wind every now and again to keep the oil from clogging (which is unlikely anyway).
Stu
FWIW I don't keep any of my watches on a winder. They get lobbed in the safe when I feel like a change of timepiece, and stay there until the next time they get worn. A quick wind, set the date if necessary, and all's sorted.
andy tims said:
Depending on age and when it was last serviced it should run for 40 hours or so after you take it off, but especially with a non date, it's hardly a big deal to set the time and wind it if it's stopped.
I've no problem doing this,didn't know if it was ok to leave until needed and then wind or if it was not recommended to let it stop.Riff Raff said:
I'm not sure I understand this clogging thing. I've got cans of oil in the garage ranging from very thin to very viscous. It doesn't disintegrate in the cans. Why would being inside a non running watch in what is effectively a hermetically sealed environment be any different?
FWIW I don't keep any of my watches on a winder. They get lobbed in the safe when I feel like a change of timepiece, and stay there until the next time they get worn. A quick wind, set the date if necessary, and all's sorted.
I agree and don't buy in to it, just some conversations had on forums about people worrying about oils congealing.FWIW I don't keep any of my watches on a winder. They get lobbed in the safe when I feel like a change of timepiece, and stay there until the next time they get worn. A quick wind, set the date if necessary, and all's sorted.
Still i wind my watch now and then...not really sure why the more i think about it...probably through habit!
Stu
mike13 said:
I've no problem doing this,didn't know if it was ok to leave until needed and then wind or if it was not recommended to let it stop.
It's fine either way. If it runs constantly i.e. in a winder or as your daily wearer, then you shorten your service interval.
If you constantly unscrew the crown to wind and set the watch you wear out the crown seals, comprimising water resistance and shorten the service interval.
Your choice
I'm in the latter camp, wind and set when I want to wear them.
Riff Raff said:
I'm not sure I understand this clogging thing. I've got cans of oil in the garage ranging from very thin to very viscous. It doesn't disintegrate in the cans. Why would being inside a non running watch in what is effectively a hermetically sealed environment be any different?
Take some of that oil from your garage and place a tiny drop on a piece of metal using the tip of a pin. Then seal it up in something watch sized. Open it up 6 months later and you'll find that (a) it's tended to spread out over the metal and (b) if you can test it, its viscosity will have increased dramatically.The oil in a watch has a huge surface area compared to its volume so volatiles evaporate and the surface oxidises a hell of a lot quicker than the same oil in a bulk container. Given the minute quantities involved, there's more than enough air in that hermetically sealed watch case to oxidise all the oil in there several times over - it would be like leaving your gallon container open in the middle of Wembly Stadium!
You can see the same effect more quickly with cooking oil - spill a little and leave it, that spillage will go "off" and turn sticky long before the rest of the bottle deteriorates.
yeti said:
mike13 said:
I've no problem doing this,didn't know if it was ok to leave until needed and then wind or if it was not recommended to let it stop.
It's fine either way. If it runs constantly i.e. in a winder or as your daily wearer, then you shorten your service interval.
If you constantly unscrew the crown to wind and set the watch you wear out the crown seals, comprimising water resistance and shorten the service interval.
Your choice
I'm in the latter camp, wind and set when I want to wear them.
Riff Raff said:
I'm not sure I understand this clogging thing. I've got cans of oil in the garage ranging from very thin to very viscous. It doesn't disintegrate in the cans. Why would being inside a non running watch in what is effectively a hermetically sealed environment be any different?
FWIW I don't keep any of my watches on a winder. They get lobbed in the safe when I feel like a change of timepiece, and stay there until the next time they get worn. A quick wind, set the date if necessary, and all's sorted.
+1FWIW I don't keep any of my watches on a winder. They get lobbed in the safe when I feel like a change of timepiece, and stay there until the next time they get worn. A quick wind, set the date if necessary, and all's sorted.
I've been wearing Rolex watches for the past 30+ years and never had one serviced yet. They all (sports watches) still perform to COSC specs and run 100% to spec.
Only watch geeks have the watches serviced, everyone else just uses them as they were meant to be used as watches!
Wear and enjoy, don't worry about winding & oils drying out. . . My latest watch, it will never see a service & I don't expect it to ever stop working in my lifetime.
Only watch geeks have the watches serviced, everyone else just uses them as they were meant to be used as watches!
Wear and enjoy, don't worry about winding & oils drying out. . . My latest watch, it will never see a service & I don't expect it to ever stop working in my lifetime.
I've never had the oil changed in my car, only car geeks do that. And I'm willing to brag about it.
For people who supposedly appreciate fine machinery, there really are some odd attitudes out there. Not that it bothers me, I get to charge for the repairs when they are needed at a much higher price than routine servicing
Yes, your watch may keep running. But there's no way you can say whether it's within cosc specs (it won't be), because you don't have the equipment, or probably the knowledge, to test it. You can't judge that from whatever average rate you happen to get in use, otherwise half the '70s Timex watches out there would be certified chronos - I can generally get those within about 5 seconds a day average
And it WILL be suffering wear, just as any machine that's neglected will. Some will keep running (after a fashion) anyway, many won't, just as some cars really will manage stellar mileages without an oil change while some will throw a rod.
For people who supposedly appreciate fine machinery, there really are some odd attitudes out there. Not that it bothers me, I get to charge for the repairs when they are needed at a much higher price than routine servicing
Yes, your watch may keep running. But there's no way you can say whether it's within cosc specs (it won't be), because you don't have the equipment, or probably the knowledge, to test it. You can't judge that from whatever average rate you happen to get in use, otherwise half the '70s Timex watches out there would be certified chronos - I can generally get those within about 5 seconds a day average
And it WILL be suffering wear, just as any machine that's neglected will. Some will keep running (after a fashion) anyway, many won't, just as some cars really will manage stellar mileages without an oil change while some will throw a rod.
You will always get people who are making a living out of servicing things who spread scare stories about cars blowing up & watches wearing out, oil drying, seals wearing etc, etc. All I know is I have 4 watches that still tell the time very well after years of never being serviced. I'm not bothred if it's a little more worn than another watch after being worn for 30+ years.
If I was to listen to a watch AD then I would have spent more on servicing than the watch is worth! It's also good to have a watch thats never been opened as I know it's never been messed about with by anyone other than Rolex, who seem to know how to build a good watch.
I don't buy a watch to do anything more than tell the time so am I wrong??
If I was to listen to a watch AD then I would have spent more on servicing than the watch is worth! It's also good to have a watch thats never been opened as I know it's never been messed about with by anyone other than Rolex, who seem to know how to build a good watch.
I don't buy a watch to do anything more than tell the time so am I wrong??
As someone who makes a living out of servicing these things i may not be best placed to answer that. For what it's worth, I totally agree that ADs (and most national chains) encourage people to have them serviced far more than they need, and generally at far higher cost than is needed.
The thing is, the "2 - 3 yearly service" recommendation started way back when watches were first lubricated with mineral oil. At the time it was a huge benefit comared to the 6 monthly (or so) attention they used to need using vegetable lubricants. Customers accepted it, and it wasn't in the interest of the makers, or sellers (most of whom had watchmakers on the premises back then) to stretch service recommendations even further as oils improved.
In practice, modern synthetic oils will probably do their primary job - protecting the moving parts - in a watch for maybe 8 - 10 years. After that, the watch probably will continue to run but wear will be happening.
Consider the pallet faces as a simple example. They're around 0.15mm across (as a ballpark figure) and, every tick, a hard, sharp-cornered, steel wheel slides across them. In a typical modern 28800bph movement, that's 14400 "slides" every hour, or around 18 kilometres of sliding contact on a very small, almost point, area every year. Once the oil fails you WILL get wear!
I've seen balance pivots that have literally drilled their way through hard ruby end-stones in older watches that have been run for decades without oil because, as soon as a pit starts to form, ruby dust between the pivot and stone accelerate wear rapidly.
Seals do also deteriorate, just like any other rubber product. Again, the makers' recommendations for changing them are generally excessive but if you wouldn't trust your car on 30 year old tyres, why would you trust 30 year old rubber seals to keep water out?
None of the above will make much of a difference to most quality watches while you own them, but they will make a difference to whether or not yous grand-kids get to inherit them one day in fully working order. Whether or not you're "wrong" depends to a great extent on how much that matters to you personally.
The thing is, the "2 - 3 yearly service" recommendation started way back when watches were first lubricated with mineral oil. At the time it was a huge benefit comared to the 6 monthly (or so) attention they used to need using vegetable lubricants. Customers accepted it, and it wasn't in the interest of the makers, or sellers (most of whom had watchmakers on the premises back then) to stretch service recommendations even further as oils improved.
In practice, modern synthetic oils will probably do their primary job - protecting the moving parts - in a watch for maybe 8 - 10 years. After that, the watch probably will continue to run but wear will be happening.
Consider the pallet faces as a simple example. They're around 0.15mm across (as a ballpark figure) and, every tick, a hard, sharp-cornered, steel wheel slides across them. In a typical modern 28800bph movement, that's 14400 "slides" every hour, or around 18 kilometres of sliding contact on a very small, almost point, area every year. Once the oil fails you WILL get wear!
I've seen balance pivots that have literally drilled their way through hard ruby end-stones in older watches that have been run for decades without oil because, as soon as a pit starts to form, ruby dust between the pivot and stone accelerate wear rapidly.
Seals do also deteriorate, just like any other rubber product. Again, the makers' recommendations for changing them are generally excessive but if you wouldn't trust your car on 30 year old tyres, why would you trust 30 year old rubber seals to keep water out?
None of the above will make much of a difference to most quality watches while you own them, but they will make a difference to whether or not yous grand-kids get to inherit them one day in fully working order. Whether or not you're "wrong" depends to a great extent on how much that matters to you personally.
I
The 'O' ring on the winder had perished allowing water in.
So if you want to continue to not have it serviced, don't wear it in the water.
Service, which was about 10 years ago was £300, bearing in mind I bought it new for £200 about 79, was quite a shock.
You said "Only watch geeks have the watches serviced, everyone else just uses them as they were meant to be used as watches!"
So if you use it as it meant to be used, ie in water, forget the geek crap and get it serviced.
Glideman said:
I've been wearing Rolex watches for the past 30+ years and never had one serviced yet. They all (sports watches) still perform to COSC specs and run 100% to spec.
Only watch geeks have the watches serviced, everyone else just uses them as they were meant to be used as watches!
Wear and enjoy, don't worry about winding & oils drying out. . . My latest watch, it will never see a service & I don't expect it to ever stop working in my lifetime.
I never had my Sea Dweller serviced either. I did a couple of lengths in a hotel pool, and had water droplets under the glass. (About after 20 years of ownership).Only watch geeks have the watches serviced, everyone else just uses them as they were meant to be used as watches!
Wear and enjoy, don't worry about winding & oils drying out. . . My latest watch, it will never see a service & I don't expect it to ever stop working in my lifetime.
The 'O' ring on the winder had perished allowing water in.
So if you want to continue to not have it serviced, don't wear it in the water.
Service, which was about 10 years ago was £300, bearing in mind I bought it new for £200 about 79, was quite a shock.
You said "Only watch geeks have the watches serviced, everyone else just uses them as they were meant to be used as watches!"
So if you use it as it meant to be used, ie in water, forget the geek crap and get it serviced.
Edited by Vipers on Friday 24th January 22:30
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