Manufacturers Watch Box Fraud?
Discussion
Hi,
I have recently had an Omega watch box I was selling removed from eBay stating its potentially fraudulent, yet there are numerous others for sale that have not been removed?
It was simply a box and packaging and warranty card holder.
I cant see how this is fraudulent - any ideas?
"After reviewing your eBay account, we've taken the following action:
- Listings have been removed. A list of items that were removed can be viewed at the bottom of this message.
- We have credited all associated fees except for the final value fee for your listing(s).
Accessories that aren't offered as a stand alone purchase from the manufacturer aren't allowed on eBay.
Certain brand name products come with accessories (custom packaging, warranties etc.) that aren't available on their own. Because these types of items may be used to commit fraud or facilitate a fraudulent transaction, we don't allow them to be listed."
I have recently had an Omega watch box I was selling removed from eBay stating its potentially fraudulent, yet there are numerous others for sale that have not been removed?
It was simply a box and packaging and warranty card holder.
I cant see how this is fraudulent - any ideas?
"After reviewing your eBay account, we've taken the following action:
- Listings have been removed. A list of items that were removed can be viewed at the bottom of this message.
- We have credited all associated fees except for the final value fee for your listing(s).
Accessories that aren't offered as a stand alone purchase from the manufacturer aren't allowed on eBay.
Certain brand name products come with accessories (custom packaging, warranties etc.) that aren't available on their own. Because these types of items may be used to commit fraud or facilitate a fraudulent transaction, we don't allow them to be listed."
I have had a chat with eBay who have basically said that you are not allowed to sell watch boxes as they may be used to packaged a fake watch. Like somebody who is purchasing an Omega or any other mid/high value watch is going to just look at the box and assume its real.
The only way you can sell your watch box is if its Vintage or Collectable....so I guess buying an old fake watch doesn't matter.
I have now re-listed my 'vintage' Omega watch box. Will see how it goes
The only way you can sell your watch box is if its Vintage or Collectable....so I guess buying an old fake watch doesn't matter.
I have now re-listed my 'vintage' Omega watch box. Will see how it goes
yammyfan said:
Like somebody who is purchasing an Omega or any other mid/high value watch is going to just look at the box and assume its real.
That is >exactly< how people buy watches. If it's got a box and booklets, it must be real, right? Not everyone know every piece of paper/cards/tags that comes with every watch, it's pretty easy to buy a loose watch and put a set together, I have done it myself (and for myself). There were a set of Omega Pictogram cars bought on tz-uk last week, I am sure for legit purposes but you can see where I'm going with that. Them, plus your box, plus an operating manual from eBay and suddenly there's your box and papers to go with your snide.
I am buying more from dealers and less from MoP these days. It's a scary world.
yeti said:
yammyfan said:
Like somebody who is purchasing an Omega or any other mid/high value watch is going to just look at the box and assume its real.
That is >exactly< how people buy watches. If it's got a box and booklets, it must be real, right? Not everyone know every piece of paper/cards/tags that comes with every watch, it's pretty easy to buy a loose watch and put a set together, I have done it myself (and for myself). There were a set of Omega Pictogram cars bought on tz-uk last week, I am sure for legit purposes but you can see where I'm going with that. Them, plus your box, plus an operating manual from eBay and suddenly there's your box and papers to go with your snide.
I am buying more from dealers and less from MoP these days. It's a scary world.
I have the accompanying watch still but I am never going to sell it, so don't see the value of having a bulky box knocking around. I can then justify dropping some money on a nice watch box
yammyfan said:
Hmmm I can see where you are coming from. I guess the way I look at it is if i am going to buy a watch of this calibre I would have it inspected for authenticity by a specialist / dealer.
And you reckon of the hundreds or thousands of watches sold on eBay daily, how many are being inspected by a specialist / dealer? How would that even work with an auction?? What makes you think a dealer knows real from fake enough to tell you from a cursory check and stake their reputation on it? They are not going to open up a modern Sub/Seamaster etc in their shop for you!
My advice is don't sell the box. I know you are planning on keeping it, but things change, times change. Or maybe your kid inherits it. Getting 80 quid for the box will knock hundreds off the value in future and make it virtually unsalable privately.
yeti said:
yammyfan said:
Hmmm I can see where you are coming from. I guess the way I look at it is if i am going to buy a watch of this calibre I would have it inspected for authenticity by a specialist / dealer.
And you reckon of the hundreds or thousands of watches sold on eBay daily, how many are being inspected by a specialist / dealer? How would that even work with an auction?? What makes you think a dealer knows real from fake enough to tell you from a cursory check and stake their reputation on it? They are not going to open up a modern Sub/Seamaster etc in their shop for you!
My advice is don't sell the box. I know you are planning on keeping it, but things change, times change. Or maybe your kid inherits it. Getting 80 quid for the box will knock hundreds off the value in future and make it virtually unsalable privately.
Had one of my regulars come in a couple of weeks ago with a Sub, full box and papers, that he was thinking of buying and the seller had let him borrow to have checked. Watch was fine, box was fine, and papers were fine. Except that papers didn't belong to the watch.
The seller was genuinely surprised (and not a little pissed off) because he'd bought it a couple of years ago as a set, paid fair price for a watch with (its own) papers, and had no idea. The sale went through but at considerably less than the seller had hoped!
That's what they're half-heartedly trying to crack down on.
The seller was genuinely surprised (and not a little pissed off) because he'd bought it a couple of years ago as a set, paid fair price for a watch with (its own) papers, and had no idea. The sale went through but at considerably less than the seller had hoped!
That's what they're half-heartedly trying to crack down on.
Yes, but if you don't know what you're looking for (which a lot of buyers don't) then (a) that's not obvious and (b) they won't know where to look for the serial number.
Basic errors, maybe, but that doesn't mean it's ok to take advantage of them.
A similar ting happens in the classic car world with old registrations being sold - practically the only reason to buy one is to put it on a car (usually stolen or a different spec) that it doesn't belong to. Rightly, with cars, that's plain illegal.
Basic errors, maybe, but that doesn't mean it's ok to take advantage of them.
A similar ting happens in the classic car world with old registrations being sold - practically the only reason to buy one is to put it on a car (usually stolen or a different spec) that it doesn't belong to. Rightly, with cars, that's plain illegal.
RichB said:
xcuse the daft question but shouldn't it be obvious? Surely the serial number on the watch must match the serial number on the papers? 
As Variomatic points out it's not always obvious nor is it easy to check. If we take a Rolex manufactured more than four or five years ago the only way to check the SN is to take the back / bracelet off. Not the sort of thing most buyers would do. It's obviosuly slightly easier on newer watches with the engraved rehaut but a match is still no guarantee of authenticity. The whole B&P thing is ostensibly for 1. 'guaranteeing' the authenticity of the watch and 2. offering 'completeness' for older collectable watches.
Point 1. is moot if you know what you are looking at anyway
Point 2. is an enhancement to a vintage/collectable in an Antiques Road Show sort of way.
The emphasis placed on B&P for largely commonplace Subs and Speeds et al is largely an irrelevance, but the market seems to bay for them - strange; unless I'm missing something...
Point 1. is moot if you know what you are looking at anyway
Point 2. is an enhancement to a vintage/collectable in an Antiques Road Show sort of way.
The emphasis placed on B&P for largely commonplace Subs and Speeds et al is largely an irrelevance, but the market seems to bay for them - strange; unless I'm missing something...
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