Homage Watches and Water Resistance
Discussion
As much as I would love to, at the moment I cannot justify spending an absolute fortune on a shiny new Omega, so I have looked into homage watches (flame away if you must, but at least it's better than a fake!). The best ones seem to be Alpha, and I've found them for not a lot of money on eBay. I'm looking through the specs and they say water resistant 100m. I've also looked at Seiko Submariners which say the same thing.
I would just like to clarify whether water resistant in this context means I can leave it on whilst swimming without worry, or are they only good for resisting when I inevitably get it wet when I wash my hands?
I would like to know opinions on these homages, and if they are bad, then if PH has any recommendations for something Planet Ocean-esque for under £200 that would be super!
I would just like to clarify whether water resistant in this context means I can leave it on whilst swimming without worry, or are they only good for resisting when I inevitably get it wet when I wash my hands?
I would like to know opinions on these homages, and if they are bad, then if PH has any recommendations for something Planet Ocean-esque for under £200 that would be super!
I wouldn't trust the water resistance rating of an Alpha if you are going to wear one for swimming, or have any contact with water for that matter.
Personally I would go for a Seiko 007/009 or Orange/Black Monster, these can be obtained well within your budget from creation watches and are good VFM. You'll probably continue to wear them even once you obtain your grail watch, I know I do
Personally I would go for a Seiko 007/009 or Orange/Black Monster, these can be obtained well within your budget from creation watches and are good VFM. You'll probably continue to wear them even once you obtain your grail watch, I know I do
In order to display one of the ISO recognised water resistance levels a watch must meet the requirements of that level and be tested by an external facility (in most cases) for compliance. Those requirements include batch testing of production and there is (or, at least, was) a fee to pay on every watch produced with one of the official depth markings.
This all costs money, which is why many budget watches use either a 30m or plain "water resist" rating. 30m is non-standard and doesn't need certifying, and "water resist" is considered splash-proof and can be certified in-house (for free) because it basically just means that seals are fitted to the crown, back and glass, which requires no testing.
One side effect of that is that many watches marked as "water resist" or 30m are in fact easily capable of passing 50 or 100m testing but the maker keeps prices down by not paying the fees. I've had a "water resist" watch off a certain magazine cover in the pressure tester and successfully sealing up to about 120m, at which point the glass imploded under the pressure - it would have been fine for swimming with!
For a UK seller, selling one that claims (say) 100m without the model meeting, and being officially tested to, the ISO 100m spec would be pretty much as serious as selling all-out fakes. Obviously, buying from abroad to save money may not give the same protection...
The ISO usage spec for 100m rated is anything up to, and including, snorkelling - but without operation of any crowns or pushers while wet. So, yes, you'd be perfectly entitled to expect a 100m rated Alpha to be ok for swimming as long as you're not planning to swim across time zones and change the hour as you go.
This all costs money, which is why many budget watches use either a 30m or plain "water resist" rating. 30m is non-standard and doesn't need certifying, and "water resist" is considered splash-proof and can be certified in-house (for free) because it basically just means that seals are fitted to the crown, back and glass, which requires no testing.
One side effect of that is that many watches marked as "water resist" or 30m are in fact easily capable of passing 50 or 100m testing but the maker keeps prices down by not paying the fees. I've had a "water resist" watch off a certain magazine cover in the pressure tester and successfully sealing up to about 120m, at which point the glass imploded under the pressure - it would have been fine for swimming with!
For a UK seller, selling one that claims (say) 100m without the model meeting, and being officially tested to, the ISO 100m spec would be pretty much as serious as selling all-out fakes. Obviously, buying from abroad to save money may not give the same protection...
The ISO usage spec for 100m rated is anything up to, and including, snorkelling - but without operation of any crowns or pushers while wet. So, yes, you'd be perfectly entitled to expect a 100m rated Alpha to be ok for swimming as long as you're not planning to swim across time zones and change the hour as you go.
Thanks guys, think I'll be giving the Alpha ones a miss. The Seiko on the other hand is something I'm considering, perhaps with a NATO strap? This is what I had in mind http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/222008857357?_trksid=p20...
Interesting how deep the prejudice against "homages" runs with some people.
The fact is that, regardless of who's design they may have been "inspired" by, a legit company making watches will meet the required standards (including batch testing etc) for any water resistance claim. Not least because water resistance to "normal" standards (up to, say, 200m) is actually very easy indeed to achieve. The design and construction principles are extremely well established and you can do it with off-the-shelf generic parts for pennies.
Fakes are a different matter, of course. If they're happy to label their Chinese quartz movement in a pot-metal case as Rolex then their claim of 300m water resistance is probably also under-stated
The fact is that, regardless of who's design they may have been "inspired" by, a legit company making watches will meet the required standards (including batch testing etc) for any water resistance claim. Not least because water resistance to "normal" standards (up to, say, 200m) is actually very easy indeed to achieve. The design and construction principles are extremely well established and you can do it with off-the-shelf generic parts for pennies.
Fakes are a different matter, of course. If they're happy to label their Chinese quartz movement in a pot-metal case as Rolex then their claim of 300m water resistance is probably also under-stated
gvij said:
Variomatic, what are swatch watches water resistant to? They mark the case as water resistant and seem to be sealed except at the crown/battery.
The screw down crown, what does that add to water resistance?
Most Swatch watches are classed as splash-proof (ie: a simple "water resist" marking) but they're a great example of where the rating and the reality can diverge. Because of the case construction, if there's no damage and the two seals (battery hatch and crown) are good then they'll withstand pretty much anything you could throw at them up to the failure strength of the plastic.The screw down crown, what does that add to water resistance?
But rating them would have put the (original) price up and the whole point was to make an effectively disposable fashion watch.
Screw-down crowns affect water resistance in one, or both, of two ways.
The first (common to all of them) is by immobilising the crown when they're locked. If you have o-ring seals on a rotating shaft - effectively what a crown is where it enters the case - then those seals are far more likely to leak when the shaft is moving than when it's stationary. So, with a normal crown, turning the crown while it's wet can let water past the seals. By having it screwed down and locked that becomes impossible.
The second applies to some designs (notably Rolex) where there's an extra seal inside the crown which is compressed between the crown and the end of the case pipe as the crown's tightened. That's an absolutely reliable sealing method while the seal is in good condition but, because it's twisted under compression every time the crown's operated, the seal tends to deteriorate relatively quickly. Unlike case-pipe seals it also provides no sealing at all if the crown is unscrewed.
Most (if not all) current screw-down crowns using compression seals also have case-pipe seals which provide an extra level of protection and should make the watch pretty much as resistant with the crown screwed down or not as long as the seals haven't deteriorated - in which case all bets are off in any case!
Hmm, I've taken a look around creation watches, I'm intrigued once again by Bulova. Namely this one http://www.creationwatches.com/products/bulova-men...
I've also seen it in orange on eBay, certainly looks inspired by a Planet Ocean, plus it'd match my Jeep!
I've also seen it in orange on eBay, certainly looks inspired by a Planet Ocean, plus it'd match my Jeep!
I know they get laughed at but I've got a Gianni Sabatini automatic Rolex 'homage', bought by a well-meaning relative who knew I liked the submariner/sea-dweller style watch. I've had it about 3 years so far and it's still going strong. It's in the shower daily, it's been swimming roughly once a week, and even scuba diving in Vietnam - granted, this was only at depths of about 10-15m but it didn't miss a beat.
The only time it was a bit dodgy was purely operator error: at first I didn't know to screw the crown in to make it watertight. A couple of hours swimming and the inside fogged up and it stopped. It eventually dried but then wouldn't work for more than about 20 minutes. I persevered wearing it for a couple of weeks and it gradually got better, and since then it's been spot on. Probably loses a minute every 10 or so days which I can cope with, and it was much better than that before the soaking.
The only time it was a bit dodgy was purely operator error: at first I didn't know to screw the crown in to make it watertight. A couple of hours swimming and the inside fogged up and it stopped. It eventually dried but then wouldn't work for more than about 20 minutes. I persevered wearing it for a couple of weeks and it gradually got better, and since then it's been spot on. Probably loses a minute every 10 or so days which I can cope with, and it was much better than that before the soaking.
I wear (most days) a TAG Heuer 1000 bi metal that I bought for next to nothing on eBay.
After Variomatic changed the glass (didn't really need it but it was discoloured) and did a pressure test, I'm confident it would meet or exceed the '200 meters' written on the dial.
If you do want to make sure your homage/whatever watch meets its ratings, I'm sure he'd take a look at it for you? I'm not sure what his fee for that would be as he did batteries on a couple of my watches and seals all together.
After Variomatic changed the glass (didn't really need it but it was discoloured) and did a pressure test, I'm confident it would meet or exceed the '200 meters' written on the dial.
If you do want to make sure your homage/whatever watch meets its ratings, I'm sure he'd take a look at it for you? I'm not sure what his fee for that would be as he did batteries on a couple of my watches and seals all together.
I (maybe wrongly) always think of Alpha as a bit different to Parnis and the like.
Sure they make 'homages' (I don't doubt a few end up as 'fakes' too, but probably not straight out of the factory!), but they seem to be a genuine brand with a bit of a reputation to protect.
That said, I'm not sure I'd go diving in a Alpha rated to 100m.
As a previous poster said, though, you could always get it pressure tested to check.
I think you'd be alright with the Bulova you reference. I believe they're part of the Citizen empire these days.
M.
Sure they make 'homages' (I don't doubt a few end up as 'fakes' too, but probably not straight out of the factory!), but they seem to be a genuine brand with a bit of a reputation to protect.
That said, I'm not sure I'd go diving in a Alpha rated to 100m.
As a previous poster said, though, you could always get it pressure tested to check.
I think you'd be alright with the Bulova you reference. I believe they're part of the Citizen empire these days.
M.
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