Discussion
Carried over from another thread.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_abfAnKbLSM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C3-n0hZlhuI
They make 5 or so per year (there was [still is?] only one person who makes them) and a few of Seiko’s top watchmakers were sent to Philippe DuFour’s to learn about the art of polishing with a bit of wood.
Obviously that was some time ago, as the Sonnerie made its debut at Basel in 2006 or 2007, iirc.
You’re also aware we’re now on to the Eichi II – larger and with the PR moved to the rear, a la H Moser & Cie.
This year’s Basel also saw the first Grand Seiko to be made at the Micro Artist Studio – Spring Drive, Platinum, Diamond dust dial, triple barrel for 8 day PR.
Since manually wound Spring Drives are reserved for Credors, this is the first GS with such a movement – previous manuals use the regular 9S variant.
glazbagun said:
I genuinely didn't know they had a tourbillon! The previous best watch I'd seen from them was the (much more tasteful!) ceramic dialed Eichi.
You weren’t aware of the Sonnerie or the (decimal) Minute Repeater?https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_abfAnKbLSM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C3-n0hZlhuI
They make 5 or so per year (there was [still is?] only one person who makes them) and a few of Seiko’s top watchmakers were sent to Philippe DuFour’s to learn about the art of polishing with a bit of wood.
Obviously that was some time ago, as the Sonnerie made its debut at Basel in 2006 or 2007, iirc.
You’re also aware we’re now on to the Eichi II – larger and with the PR moved to the rear, a la H Moser & Cie.
This year’s Basel also saw the first Grand Seiko to be made at the Micro Artist Studio – Spring Drive, Platinum, Diamond dust dial, triple barrel for 8 day PR.
Since manually wound Spring Drives are reserved for Credors, this is the first GS with such a movement – previous manuals use the regular 9S variant.
Variomatic said:
Not a problem, and that illustrates nicely what a disservice Seiko UK are doing us by restricting their imports to Kinetics, 5's and a few starter Spring Drives!
To be fair, Seiko UK haven’t been confident about tackling the Swiss at the more mundane price points, but for the past year or thereabouts, Ernest Jones has had exclusivity on 4 or 5 pieces of mechanical Seikos (Presage range, iirc), and as of this year’s BaselWorld, Presage has now become a global range, which will include their not-exactly-inexpensive Urushi lacquer dial chronographs (circa £2K) with the 8R48 movement, featuring 3 column wheels for each of the chrono hands. In essence, what that means is each of the sub-dial hands will now move as smoothly as the chrono seconds, rather than step/jump to the next position.Yeah I thought I was doing good just knowing about Credor's existence, and have seen some Grand Seikos in Selfridges. I think much of their relative obscurity over here is down to the Swiss model of spending gazillions on marketing. This is a US article, but I would be surprised if Seiko made it much higher over here, Credor aren't even mentioned specifically:
http://www.watchtime.com/wristwatch-industry-news/...
http://www.watchtime.com/wristwatch-industry-news/...
Jobbo said:
Citizen acquired a Swiss company in 2012, Christopher Ward merged with their Swiss partners in 2014; I respect Seiko more for not buying in a Swiss connection, to be honest.
That Swiss company is the same one pimping out John Arnold and George Graham's name as though they had anything like a link to their heritage. It's a pretty reprehensible practice IMO, but then it is the Luxury goods industry and sales are driven by marketing. I wish Citizen well, but I'd particularly like Seiko/Credor to have a higher profile over here, their history is fantastic.La Joux-Perret is part of a small group, which Citizen acquired in 2011, but in all fairness to LJP, the Arnold & Son brand has some stonking models in its line-up.
Graham has its own niche but, not in all fairness, I look upon them as a more expensive version of Invicta!
It’s also worth knowing that LJP was the chosen partner for Bremont’s Wright Flyer movement – the one that was at the centre of the debacle at the time of being launched.
Regarding Grand Seiko’s profile here in the UK, with less than 20K pieces produced each year (including Galante, Credor, Astron, and some of the Prospex), of which the majority sells in the Asian region, there’s not an awful lot left to justify a big marketing campaign.
When they get their own boutique in London eventually sorted, then you might see something – albeit at a local level.
I’m undecided if they’re worried that if more regular buyers look for them, they’ll have to increase the amount exported from Japan – but on the other hand, they could be just content with collectors knowing of and buying them, leaving the rest of the public to focus on whether to buy the Omega or Rolex both marketing departments have convinced them to do.
Graham has its own niche but, not in all fairness, I look upon them as a more expensive version of Invicta!
It’s also worth knowing that LJP was the chosen partner for Bremont’s Wright Flyer movement – the one that was at the centre of the debacle at the time of being launched.
Regarding Grand Seiko’s profile here in the UK, with less than 20K pieces produced each year (including Galante, Credor, Astron, and some of the Prospex), of which the majority sells in the Asian region, there’s not an awful lot left to justify a big marketing campaign.
When they get their own boutique in London eventually sorted, then you might see something – albeit at a local level.
I’m undecided if they’re worried that if more regular buyers look for them, they’ll have to increase the amount exported from Japan – but on the other hand, they could be just content with collectors knowing of and buying them, leaving the rest of the public to focus on whether to buy the Omega or Rolex both marketing departments have convinced them to do.
Edited by PJ S on Thursday 12th May 02:59
Yeah I'm conflicted about LJP. I feel their plundering of historical names is about as low as you can go from a marketing point of view (except, perhaps, claiming your movement is in-house when it isn't 
), but as a smallish company producing some good work in a competitive market they seem to be doing quite well. And at least the Arnold watches seem interesting, far better than what happened to Earnshaw's name. 
), but as a smallish company producing some good work in a competitive market they seem to be doing quite well. And at least the Arnold watches seem interesting, far better than what happened to Earnshaw's name. glazbagun said:
Yeah I'm conflicted about LJP. I feel their plundering of historical names is about as low as you can go from a marketing point of view (except, perhaps, claiming your movement is in-house when it isn't ), but as a smallish company producing some good work in a competitive market they seem to be doing quite well. And at least the Arnold watches seem interesting, far better than what happened to Earnshaw's name.
As you say, it's marketing. The same charge could reasonably be levelled at a certain huge Swiss corporation over the last several decades, with names they own being shuffled around and repositioned while (for the most part) using off-the-shelf movements with a bit of pretty finishing. ), but as a smallish company producing some good work in a competitive market they seem to be doing quite well. And at least the Arnold watches seem interesting, far better than what happened to Earnshaw's name. I had a huge respect for Omega, from their early pocket watches through (my personal fave) the bumper autos and into the early, technically quirky, quartz creations like the 1310 with worm drive and retaining click on the c/secs.
Then came several decades of minimally modified 2890/'92 autos and even less modified ETA quartz - effectively plundering a historic name to sell mediocre mass production.
Granted, they've started moving in the right direction again recently but personally I dont see why their dominance and "Swissness" should immunise them against criticisms aimed at others for similar marketing.
One aspect of this practice that I do find amusing is with companies like Oris, who promote the "historic" nature of their "luxury" products while conveniently omitting the fact that for the vast majority of that history they were producing low-grade (but reliable) pin pallet watches that competed with the likes of Timex
I think the Japanese keep the best for themselves and only bother to sell to the rest of the world when the home market is satisfied (see JDM cars).
I remember going to Japan ~ 20 years ago. Flat screen TV were in the tech shows, but weren't actually on sale, however, they were on sale in Japan and had been for about a year.
Grand Seiko have decades of history but they only started pushing sales abroad in the last few years. Maybe the Japan market could buy all they could make.
I have the utmost respect for Seiko. They grow their own Quartz, blend their own oils and even invented the electronic printer (Epson).
I remember going to Japan ~ 20 years ago. Flat screen TV were in the tech shows, but weren't actually on sale, however, they were on sale in Japan and had been for about a year.
Grand Seiko have decades of history but they only started pushing sales abroad in the last few years. Maybe the Japan market could buy all they could make.
I have the utmost respect for Seiko. They grow their own Quartz, blend their own oils and even invented the electronic printer (Epson).
Gassing Station | Watches | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff