Tudor Heritage Chrono replacement - any suggestions?

[Podie]

I’m contemplating a replacement for my Tudor Heritage Chrono. It’s due for a service and a bit of TLC, so if I’m going to change it makes sense to do it straight after that as the next owner gets a perfect example with a warranty.

However, I’m struggling to find a suitable alternative.

I want:

• 40/42mm
• metal bracelet
• chrono
• date window

I like a bit of bright detailing (like the orange hand on the Tudor), but I hate it when numbers are “cut off” the face (like the IWC Portugieser).

The Speedy Pro does absolutely nothing for me, nor does the Rolex Daytona. I already have a Navitimer, so that’s out.

Quite happy to purchase second hand, but don’t really want to exceed £3.5-4k on a daily wearer as it takes a beating!


Any suggestions?

[dimots]

El Primero Chronograph or Bremont Alt1?

[UnclePat]

As suggested, any number of Zenith El Primero Chronograph models are available to meet your specification. If you’re looking for a Chronograph movement, that’s pretty much legendary and as good as it gets at that price point – Swiss, automatic, date, integrated, pretty to look at, hi-beat, long power reserve, nice size, accurate etc. They come in about a million colourful varieties, though the ones with over-lapping sub-dials might fall into the same category as your number munching dislike.

Also, check out the Germans:

- Sinn http://www.sinn.de/en/Instrument_Chronographs.htm
- Damasko https://www.pageandcooper.com/brands/damasko/?p=5

Both offer highly technical instrument chronographs, at a price that really shames some of their Swiss competitors.

Most are in black, but can come with brightly-coloured hands, or some have a paler dials & red accents. Some even offer full dial lume i.e. the whole dial is lumed, but the numerals are not.

Both offer cutting-edge technology e.g. Sinn’s DIAPAL lubrication-free escapement, Captive bezel & internal Ar-Dehumidifying capsule, or Damasko's lubrication cells & viton seals, and both are anti-magnetic, shock resistant, temperature-tested etc.

Damaskos are made from the same steel as German Submarines, whilst Sinn ‘tegiment’ their steel surface, which means both are many times harder than standard 316L Stainless Steel used in most watches – they’re near bomb-proof and easily able to take any beating you give them. They supply emergency response teams, police special forces and the like.

The only problem is that aside from Zenith, once you’ve discounted the Breitling/Tudor, Rolex & Omega/Lemania Chronographs, you’re left with a raft of different suppliers (including Sinn & Damasko) who will all be using the venerable ETA/Valjoux 7750 chrono movement (under one name or another), which is a good movement, but a bit thick – some Sinns are clocking in at 17mm – and the prices charged can be wildly different for the exact same base movement.

Of course, there is Seiko as well.

[Podie]

dimots said:

El Primero Chronograph or Bremont Alt1?

Interesting, and good suggestions - thanks.

UnclePat said:

- Sinn http://www.sinn.de/en/Instrument_Chronographs.htm
- Damasko https://www.pageandcooper.com/brands/damasko/?p=5

I've been looking at Sinn actually - I had a 556 which I liked, although I found it a bit small (most of my other watches are are 40-42mm).

Had forgotten about Damasko... good call.

[CardShark]

UnclePat said:

Damaskos are made from the same steel as German Submarines, whilst Sinn ‘tegiment’ their steel surface, which means both are many times harder than standard 316L Stainless Steel used in most watches – they’re near bomb-proof and easily able to take any beating you give them. They supply emergency response teams, police special forces and the like.

Damasko use their proprietary hardened steel for each and every model they make though it's Sinn that use submarine steel for their divers. Most of the Sinn range aren't tegiment, and of those that do use tegimented steel it's usually just for the bezel and not the case or bracelet. Off the top of my head it's only their 757 that is fully tegimented though the divers can be spec'd/optioned as such - might be wrong there though.

Both brands are well engineered, I've a few examples from both brands Bremont are a good shout and also use hardened steel cases.

[Podie]

So what's the difference between the 757 and the 757 DIAPAL?

[Spice_Weasel]

I'm trying to go the other way and am after a Tudor Heritage Chrono Blue.

The Fortis B42 Pilot Professional Chrono may fit your bill:

http://www.chrono24.co.uk/fortis/b42-chronograph-a...

Or maybe the Cosmonaut version:

http://www.chrono24.co.uk/fortis/fortis-b-42-offic...

[gregd]

How about the new Heuer Autavia?

[UnclePat]

CardShark said:

UnclePat said:

Damaskos are made from the same steel as German Submarines, whilst Sinn ‘tegiment’ their steel surface, which means both are many times harder than standard 316L Stainless Steel used in most watches – they’re near bomb-proof and easily able to take any beating you give them. They supply emergency response teams, police special forces and the like.

Damasko use their proprietary hardened steel for each and every model they make though it's Sinn that use submarine steel for their divers. Most of the Sinn range aren't tegiment, and of those that do use tegimented steel it's usually just for the bezel and not the case or bracelet. Off the top of my head it's only their 757 that is fully tegimented though the divers can be spec'd/optioned as such - might be wrong there though.

Both brands are well engineered, I've a few examples from both brands Bremont are a good shout and also use hardened steel cases.

Yes, you’re absolutely correct – I typed that too hastily.

Sinn are known for using Submarine steel more widely, although it’s true that Damasko do themselves also use Submarine steel, including for their DSub1.

You're correct, entry level Sinn models don’t tend to be tegimented, but they’re usually pretty clear about that. At the higher price point discussed, I’d expect most models to benefit from the process. I thought they quite commonly used the process on cases as well though - their U1 is certainly fully tegimented.

I’ve read that the tegimenting process provides for a harder scratch-resistant surface than Damasko’s ice-hardened steel, but as it is only the surface (i.e. the core steel beneath is not treated) it is more vulnerable to dings/deformities, whereas Damasko’s treatment is not as surface scratch-resistant, but is uniformly hardened throughout, and thus is structurally tougher against impacts.

I don't want to hijack the thread, but out of interest, do you have a preference between the two brands, and why? I’ve heard Damasko have/had problematic servicing backlogs?

[anonymous-user]

Podie said:

So what's the difference between the 757 and the 757 DIAPAL?

I found this http://www.sinn.de/en/DIAPAL.htm - an oil/lubricant free escapement design (to avoid age-related degredation of the oil)

[Podie]

Spice_Weasel said:

I'm trying to go the other way and am after a Tudor Heritage Chrono Blue.

The Fortis B42 Pilot Professional Chrono may fit your bill:

http://www.chrono24.co.uk/fortis/b42-chronograph-a...

Or maybe the Cosmonaut version:

http://www.chrono24.co.uk/fortis/fortis-b-42-offic...

With regards to the Tudor HC blue, make sure you see one in the metal before buying. I really wanted one until I saw it.

B42 is an interesting shout, although reminds me a bit too much of my cheapy Seiko SNDA57P1

gregd said:

How about the new Heuer Autavia?

Just Googled that, and saw the Monza reissue.... which I think I prefer!

Spumfry said:

I found this http://www.sinn.de/en/DIAPAL.htm - an oil/lubricant free escapement design (to avoid age-related degredation of the oil)

Cheers

[BluePurpleRed]

gregd said:

How about the new Heuer Autavia?

Thats a great shout. ( I have a Tudor HC in grey with black "plates" ) This is the only alternative I can see matching it

[don logan]

I had a Bremont ALT 1 C P/W (white dial with polished case)

LOVED IT and have still never seen one on anyone else, they do a black dial version too (and unpolished versions)

Straps only though

[VGTICE]

What about the new Tudor Heritage BB Chrono? They should hit ADs soon.

https://www.tudorwatch.com/watches/new-black-bay-c...

[Spice_Weasel]

Podie said:

With regards to the Tudor HC blue, make sure you see one in the metal before buying. I really wanted one until I saw it.

I tried one on at Zurich Airport's Tudor boutique in March though the exchange rate and duty made it uneconomic to buy there.
I really liked the blue and orange detailing and preferred it over the grey dial/black subdial version.

Iconic have them at £2.8k ish but I need to shift a couple of watches first.

[Podie]

VGTICE said:

What about the new Tudor Heritage BB Chrono? They should hit ADs soon.

https://www.tudorwatch.com/watches/new-black-bay-c...

Hadn't seen that, but looks a bit flat.

[CardShark]

UnclePat said:

Yes, you’re absolutely correct – I typed that too hastily.

Sinn are known for using Submarine steel more widely, although it’s true that Damasko do themselves also use Submarine steel, including for their DSub1.

You're correct, entry level Sinn models don’t tend to be tegimented, but they’re usually pretty clear about that. At the higher price point discussed, I’d expect most models to benefit from the process. I thought they quite commonly used the process on cases as well though - their U1 is certainly fully tegimented.

I’ve read that the tegimenting process provides for a harder scratch-resistant surface than Damasko’s ice-hardened steel, but as it is only the surface (i.e. the core steel beneath is not treated) it is more vulnerable to dings/deformities, whereas Damasko’s treatment is not as surface scratch-resistant, but is uniformly hardened throughout, and thus is structurally tougher against impacts.

I don't want to hijack the thread, but out of interest, do you have a preference between the two brands, and why? I’ve heard Damasko have/had problematic servicing backlogs?

I'd forgotten about the DSub1 (and so has Damasko as I've yet to see it on their website!), that does use a surface hardened submarine steel case and bezel though I'm pretty sure that all of their other models use their own "ice-hardened" steel.

As for which brand I prefer... pretty much a score draw for me. Both Damasko and Sinn have had tails of lengthy service times so I wouldn't choose one over the other for that reason, and Page & Cooper recently announced that they've been appointed the UK's sole Sinn service and after-sales center so that may well have a positive effect there (don't know if all models eg oil/argon filled and older models such as the EZM1 are included).
Sinn have the larger range though Damasko's is growing, Sinn are well known for their divers whereas Damasko haven't gone there at all until now. Sinn might have the slight edge when it comes to marginal gain tech (eg argon filled cases with dehumidifying capsules, captive bezels etc) though Damasko, in my experience, might have a very slight edge when it comes to build quality (I judge this, in part, by the feel of the crown, bezel, pusher and winder actions), Damasko has the better built bracelet as well though due to the type of clasp they use my Sinn bracelets are easier to take on and off my wrist.

Coin toss, really!

Edited by CardShark on Monday 5th June 17:59

[VGTICE]

Podie said:

VGTICE said:

What about the new Tudor Heritage BB Chrono? They should hit ADs soon.

https://www.tudorwatch.com/watches/new-black-bay-c...

Hadn't seen that, but looks a bit flat.

After recent experiences with Tudor I will reserve judgment until I see on in person.

[nikaiyo2]

What about a Planet Ocean chrono? http://www.watchfinder.co.uk/Omega/Planet%20Ocean/...

The newer bi-compax look really nice in the flesh.

Or IWC Pilots Chrono http://www.watchfinder.co.uk/IWC/Pilots%20Chrono/I...

Or a bit left field and a touch over budget..
http://www.watchfinder.co.uk/Ulysse%20Nardin/Comba...

Also if you are looking to sell your HC depending on condition I might be interested.

[Podie]

VGTICE said:

Podie said:

VGTICE said:

What about the new Tudor Heritage BB Chrono? They should hit ADs soon.

https://www.tudorwatch.com/watches/new-black-bay-c...

Hadn't seen that, but looks a bit flat.

After recent experiences with Tudor I will reserve judgment until I see on in person.

Sounds intriguing...