Rolex GMT Master II (pre-ceramic)
Discussion
Chaps,
Apologies, no pictures; advice/expertise sought
I've seen a GMT Master II 16710 for sale for £8,500. Box and papers, 2000 model. I know all stainless sports Rolexes (is that the plural?!) are strong money nowadays but that doesn't look likely to change any time soon. When I started looking a few years ago they were probably £1,500 less and could quite easily be £1,500 more in the next few years so it could be kind of now or never.
So, is £8,500 silly money? Does it seem about right? A check on Chrono24 shows none under £9,500 or so but I appreciate there's lots of little differences that affect value.
Secondly - and perhaps importantly - it is the 'coke' version. It also comes with the black bezel. I am not sure what it was originally. Can you tell from the reference? A quick Google doesn't yield anything conclusive.
Thanks all!
Apologies, no pictures; advice/expertise sought
I've seen a GMT Master II 16710 for sale for £8,500. Box and papers, 2000 model. I know all stainless sports Rolexes (is that the plural?!) are strong money nowadays but that doesn't look likely to change any time soon. When I started looking a few years ago they were probably £1,500 less and could quite easily be £1,500 more in the next few years so it could be kind of now or never.
So, is £8,500 silly money? Does it seem about right? A check on Chrono24 shows none under £9,500 or so but I appreciate there's lots of little differences that affect value.
Secondly - and perhaps importantly - it is the 'coke' version. It also comes with the black bezel. I am not sure what it was originally. Can you tell from the reference? A quick Google doesn't yield anything conclusive.
Thanks all!
Does it feel silly money to you one may legitimately ask? As it’s you that will be paying out for the watch you want, you’re likely to be the best judge.
Having said all of that; you declare that’s it’s below all others you can see for sale, suggesting it could be a bargain.
There of course could be many reasons for this, such as general condition, including damage somewhere. It may also never have had a service, so that may be a factor too.
Just due your due diligence as you are and then make your decision. I did something similar about 2 years ago as always fancied a pre-ceramic pepsi. It’s my favourite amongst a brace of other ceramic Rolex and according to Chrono24, it’s doing OK on the ‘investment ‘ front too!
Having said all of that; you declare that’s it’s below all others you can see for sale, suggesting it could be a bargain.
There of course could be many reasons for this, such as general condition, including damage somewhere. It may also never have had a service, so that may be a factor too.
Just due your due diligence as you are and then make your decision. I did something similar about 2 years ago as always fancied a pre-ceramic pepsi. It’s my favourite amongst a brace of other ceramic Rolex and according to Chrono24, it’s doing OK on the ‘investment ‘ front too!
WhisperingWasp said:
Secondly - and perhaps importantly - it is the 'coke' version. It also comes with the black bezel. I am not sure what it was originally. Can you tell from the reference? A quick Google doesn't yield anything conclusive.
Thanks all!
That's not important with GMT's of that year they were all just 16710 with either a black, black/red, red/blue bezel insert, don't pay more for a "coke version" as there was no such model, the inserts are readily available and your watch could easily been sold with a black insert and the red/black purchased afterwards.Thanks all!
https://www.rolexforums.com/showthread.php?t=68771...
Edited by Wills2 on Wednesday 24th July 22:30
Wills2 said:
That's not important with GMT's of that year they were all just 16710 with either a black, black/red, red/blue bezel insert, don't pay more for a "coke version" as there was no such model, the inserts are readily available and your watch could easily been sold with a black insert and the red/black purchased afterwards.
https://www.rolexforums.com/showthread.php?t=68771...
Thanks for the reply. Having looked further I think the black/red is just 16710, the black has LN at the end and the blue/red BLRO at the end. Agree on not paying a premium but nice to know what it originally came with I think.https://www.rolexforums.com/showthread.php?t=68771...
Edited by Wills2 on Wednesday 24th July 22:30
Saying that my absolute favourite is probably the 'pepsi' so nice to know they are interchangeable.
Edited by WhisperingWasp on Wednesday 24th July 22:43
rog007 said:
Does it feel silly money to you one may legitimately ask? As it’s you that will be paying out for the watch you want, you’re likely to be the best judge.
Having said all of that; you declare that’s it’s below all others you can see for sale, suggesting it could be a bargain.
There of course could be many reasons for this, such as general condition, including damage somewhere. It may also never have had a service, so that may be a factor too.
Just due your due diligence as you are and then make your decision. I did something similar about 2 years ago as always fancied a pre-ceramic pepsi. It’s my favourite amongst a brace of other ceramic Rolex and according to Chrono24, it’s doing OK on the ‘investment ‘ front too!
Thanks Rog.Having said all of that; you declare that’s it’s below all others you can see for sale, suggesting it could be a bargain.
There of course could be many reasons for this, such as general condition, including damage somewhere. It may also never have had a service, so that may be a factor too.
Just due your due diligence as you are and then make your decision. I did something similar about 2 years ago as always fancied a pre-ceramic pepsi. It’s my favourite amongst a brace of other ceramic Rolex and according to Chrono24, it’s doing OK on the ‘investment ‘ front too!
I suppose it feels silly in so far that I could have bought it cheaper in the past but every single one of us could say that about something so it is not really valid.
The encouraging thing is it is from a reputable jewellers (is that still a word?!) in town and was originally sold by them too (well, their sister store).
WhisperingWasp said:
Thanks for the reply. Having looked further I think the black/red is just 16710, the black has LN at the end and the blue/red BLRO at the end. Agree on not paying a premium but nice to know what it originally came with I think.
Saying that my absolute favourite is probably the 'pepsi' so nice to know they are interchangeable.
Easily swappable. Just pop in to Rolex St.James' Square and they'll do it while you wait. I had my 16700 black bezel swapped out for a blue/red, and they gave me the black bezel back - can't remember the cost but less than a hundred quid. A nice experience too - The technician will chat to you about the general condition of the watch.Saying that my absolute favourite is probably the 'pepsi' so nice to know they are interchangeable.
Edited by WhisperingWasp on Wednesday 24th July 22:43
As to price, to echo what others have said, it's down to how much you like the watch and how much you want it. Fairly safe to say it won't fall out of bed value wise and who's to know how much they'll appreciate. I was tempted to swap mine for a Batman when the prices were similar - Thankfully I resisted as I know I'd regret it today if I had. They're beautiful watches.
Good luck!
WelshChris said:
Easily swappable. Just pop in to Rolex St.James' Square and they'll do it while you wait. I had my 16700 black bezel swapped out for a blue/red, and they gave me the black bezel back - can't remember the cost but less than a hundred quid. A nice experience too - The technician will chat to you about the general condition of the watch.
As to price, to echo what others have said, it's down to how much you like the watch and how much you want it. Fairly safe to say it won't fall out of bed value wise and who's to know how much they'll appreciate. I was tempted to swap mine for a Batman when the prices were similar - Thankfully I resisted as I know I'd regret it today if I had. They're beautiful watches.
Good luck!
Cheers Chris. Yeah I've just been looking at the RSC thing from the link above; looks great.As to price, to echo what others have said, it's down to how much you like the watch and how much you want it. Fairly safe to say it won't fall out of bed value wise and who's to know how much they'll appreciate. I was tempted to swap mine for a Batman when the prices were similar - Thankfully I resisted as I know I'd regret it today if I had. They're beautiful watches.
Good luck!
Just done a search on Chrono24 for all UK 16710s with B&P and cheapest is £8,950. I've got a list of questions to ask the dealer such as when last service as per Rog's advice above but I am very tempted
https://jeremyfrancejewellers.co.uk/rolex/rolex-gm...
Not sure if it has B&P but from a very reputable retailer.
Not sure if it has B&P but from a very reputable retailer.
WhisperingWasp said:
Thanks for the reply. Having looked further I think the black/red is just 16710, the black has LN at the end and the blue/red BLRO at the end. Agree on not paying a premium but nice to know what it originally came with I think.
Saying that my absolute favourite is probably the 'pepsi' so nice to know they are interchangeable.
Just so you're clear 16710 do not have LN or BLRO that's the ceramic GMT model nomenclature as I said and linked to on the Rolex forum 16710 are just 16710. With one exception if they don't have visible lug holes there is a T after the 16710, but a 2000 year watch will have lug holes so no T. Saying that my absolute favourite is probably the 'pepsi' so nice to know they are interchangeable.
Edited by WhisperingWasp on Wednesday 24th July 22:43
Here is my old 16710 GMT for reference it came with a black insert (note LN is nowhere to be seen) but as it didn't have lug holes it has a T after the model ref to denote that.
I sold my '99, with, box papers etc, for £4k (I think the dealer got £5k) mid-2017, since then they have shot up.
Not sure how much of the rise is just down to the pound weakening, buying at today's prices I would worry what happens if the pound strengthens again against the EURO, the ones in Europe will look cheaper in pound terms and the prices in the UK will have to correct.
Not sure how much of the rise is just down to the pound weakening, buying at today's prices I would worry what happens if the pound strengthens again against the EURO, the ones in Europe will look cheaper in pound terms and the prices in the UK will have to correct.
audidoody said:
I bought a Coke 16710 for £1,995 in 2003 never imagining it would increase much. I doubt I will ever sell it so its current value is notional
Pretty much the same for me- bought a 1 year old Pepsi in 2003 for £1550, but it was never bought with investment potential in mind! It's a keeper for sureWilmslowboy said:
I sold my '99, with, box papers etc, for £4k (I think the dealer got £5k) mid-2017, since then they have shot up.
Not sure how much of the rise is just down to the pound weakening, buying at today's prices I would worry what happens if the pound strengthens again against the EURO, the ones in Europe will look cheaper in pound terms and the prices in the UK will have to correct.
Prices are much more about production not keeping up with global demand. Rolex are trying to become more prestige and less interested in volume. The crazy prices are relfected globally. Not sure how much of the rise is just down to the pound weakening, buying at today's prices I would worry what happens if the pound strengthens again against the EURO, the ones in Europe will look cheaper in pound terms and the prices in the UK will have to correct.
2-3 year waiting list for GMT's and Sub's, even longer for Batman, Pepsi and Hulks.
Don't even bother trying to get a Daytona, £12k new and £25k for a white face ceramic model.
Expert advice suggests that the average 5% annual return on an SS Rolex will continue.
moffat said:
Prices are much more about production not keeping up with global demand. Rolex are trying to become more prestige and less interested in volume. The crazy prices are relfected globally.
2-3 year waiting list for GMT's and Sub's, even longer for Batman, Pepsi and Hulks.
Don't even bother trying to get a Daytona, £12k new and £25k for a white face ceramic model.
Expert advice suggests that the average 5% annual return on an SS Rolex will continue.
Daytona retail is 9550.2-3 year waiting list for GMT's and Sub's, even longer for Batman, Pepsi and Hulks.
Don't even bother trying to get a Daytona, £12k new and £25k for a white face ceramic model.
Expert advice suggests that the average 5% annual return on an SS Rolex will continue.
I got my Hulk after waiting 2 months last year.
It's just important to build a relationship with your dealer and not look like a desperate beg of a reseller in my experience.
nikaiyo2 said:
https://jeremyfrancejewellers.co.uk/rolex/rolex-gm...
Not sure if it has B&P but from a very reputable retailer.
Thanks. Good gauge to the value of the one I've seen which is younger and (I think) has the solid end links. Cheers.Not sure if it has B&P but from a very reputable retailer.
Wills2 said:
Just so you're clear 16710 do not have LN or BLRO that's the ceramic GMT model nomenclature as I said and linked to on the Rolex forum 16710 are just 16710. With one exception if they don't have visible lug holes there is a T after the 16710, but a 2000 year watch will have lug holes so no T.
Here is my old 16710 GMT for reference it came with a black insert (note LN is nowhere to be seen) but as it didn't have lug holes it has a T after the model ref to denote that.
Thanks. I saw the references in this link:Here is my old 16710 GMT for reference it came with a black insert (note LN is nowhere to be seen) but as it didn't have lug holes it has a T after the model ref to denote that.
http://www.gmtmasterhistory.com/gmt-master_ref_167...
But perhaps these are just used unofficially as per the newer models to also differentiate the old. Not sure.
WhisperingWasp said:
Wills2 said:
Just so you're clear 16710 do not have LN or BLRO that's the ceramic GMT model nomenclature as I said and linked to on the Rolex forum 16710 are just 16710. With one exception if they don't have visible lug holes there is a T after the 16710, but a 2000 year watch will have lug holes so no T.
Here is my old 16710 GMT for reference it came with a black insert (note LN is nowhere to be seen) but as it didn't have lug holes it has a T after the model ref to denote that.
Thanks. I saw the references in this link:Here is my old 16710 GMT for reference it came with a black insert (note LN is nowhere to be seen) but as it didn't have lug holes it has a T after the model ref to denote that.
http://www.gmtmasterhistory.com/gmt-master_ref_167...
But perhaps these are just used unofficially as per the newer models to also differentiate the old. Not sure.
Do not pay more for a 16710 on the basis of the bezel colour as replacements are £55 from Rolex, good luck with the search.
Wills2 said:
Yes I know that reference website, of course a black bezel insert will be an LN etc..but my point was around the actual official watch reference and addressed your initial post regarding "most importantly it's a coke model" I was just pointing out that there is no such thing as they can be any of the three, unlike today where you cannot swap out the ceramic inserts to make an LN GMT in to a BLNR GMT as they are referenced as such from the factory.
Do not pay more for a 16710 on the basis of the bezel colour as replacements are £55 from Rolex, good luck with the search.
Do not pay more for a 16710 on the basis of the bezel colour as replacements are £55 from Rolex, good luck with the search.
Mine originally had a black/red bezel but Rolex changed it to an all black one during a service.Gassing Station | Watches | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff