Omega help required
Discussion
I've just sold a Tudor Bronze that I really wanted to like, but I couldn't get on with it - a bit too big and chunky for my skinny wrists. I now have a bit of cash that needs spending before SWMBO spends it on a new kitchen floor....
I fancy a nice birth-year watch (1961) and I rather like the idea of a gold (or gold cap) Omega on a nice leather strap. Then this caught my eye....
I really like it (although I'd have preferred an automatic), but knowing next to nothing about Omega, I thought I'd best check with the PH watch gurus first.
My worries are:-
1) It feels a bit over-priced
2) Is it over-restored?
3) The ebay ad says the dial is a restored original, but I'm surprised there's no model name on the lower section - if it's genuine, I very much like the simplicity
4) No box or papers, but comes with a guarantee
I've done some Googling of "Vintage Gold Watches London" and I can't find any negative feedback, so it looks like the dealer is reputable
Any comments or observations?
Any other suggestions for a simple-faced watch from 1961?
I fancy a nice birth-year watch (1961) and I rather like the idea of a gold (or gold cap) Omega on a nice leather strap. Then this caught my eye....
I really like it (although I'd have preferred an automatic), but knowing next to nothing about Omega, I thought I'd best check with the PH watch gurus first.
My worries are:-
1) It feels a bit over-priced
2) Is it over-restored?
3) The ebay ad says the dial is a restored original, but I'm surprised there's no model name on the lower section - if it's genuine, I very much like the simplicity
4) No box or papers, but comes with a guarantee
I've done some Googling of "Vintage Gold Watches London" and I can't find any negative feedback, so it looks like the dealer is reputable
Any comments or observations?
Any other suggestions for a simple-faced watch from 1961?
'Birth year watch': it's become a thing, but it originated as far cheaper way to buy a decent make of watch, then add credibility to it. No, it isnt a fraction of the cost of a new one - its my birth year!
Id be wary, firstly because in many cases it is lame, and also because many old watches are on their arse, overly polished and advertised with their guestimated year of production to attract buyers in this market and greatly over-valued. It was sort-of alright with a used Speedy or Datejust, or maybe even a Sub, but prices have risen and I dont think that it makes the financial sense that it may have done before, even if it was cringe.
Possibly not a popular opinion, but it is what happened, none the less.
Id be wary, firstly because in many cases it is lame, and also because many old watches are on their arse, overly polished and advertised with their guestimated year of production to attract buyers in this market and greatly over-valued. It was sort-of alright with a used Speedy or Datejust, or maybe even a Sub, but prices have risen and I dont think that it makes the financial sense that it may have done before, even if it was cringe.
Possibly not a popular opinion, but it is what happened, none the less.
That doesn't look at all right to me. I'm not an Omega expert, but...
I've never seen a blue starburst dial on that style of (Omega)watch.
If it's '61, the dial should have a single T in the Swiss made to denote tritium lume, but some watches weren't marked.
I have a sneaking suspicion that if the hands have lume, the dial should too. But I'm not expert enough to make a positive assertion.
In general redialled watches should be avoided. The usual reason that the watch needed redialling is that water, sweat or humidity got inside the watch and ruined the dial. Similar damage would also have been done to the steel parts of the mechanism.
This one has piqued my interest. I have cross posted this on WUS. Here's a link, hope you don't mind. You should get some very knowledgeable answers from the guys over there.
I've never seen a blue starburst dial on that style of (Omega)watch.
If it's '61, the dial should have a single T in the Swiss made to denote tritium lume, but some watches weren't marked.
I have a sneaking suspicion that if the hands have lume, the dial should too. But I'm not expert enough to make a positive assertion.
In general redialled watches should be avoided. The usual reason that the watch needed redialling is that water, sweat or humidity got inside the watch and ruined the dial. Similar damage would also have been done to the steel parts of the mechanism.
This one has piqued my interest. I have cross posted this on WUS. Here's a link, hope you don't mind. You should get some very knowledgeable answers from the guys over there.
GC8 said:
It looks alright, in a spangly way, but watches didn’t look like that in 1961.
It’s a massive tart up on a very cheap watch, intended to gouge as much as money as possible out of you. It’ll be tiny, too.
Kind of what I suspect and was trying to say. That dial on that age of watch is just wrong.It’s a massive tart up on a very cheap watch, intended to gouge as much as money as possible out of you. It’ll be tiny, too.
The movement does hail from 1961 (https://est1897.co.uk/omega-serial-numbers-how-old-is-your-omega-watch), but given what's been done, the case, dial and hands have to be considered of unknown vintage.
It's a cynical tart up done to make the watch as appealing to the modern market, it is not a sympathetic restoration.
The vendor appears to have many redialled watches, some with mismatched hands too. In my book if a vendor has one or more watches like this, then in the absence of proof that the dealer is not creating & pedalling franken watches, it should be assumed that they are.
I may be unfairly labelling the vendor, but having seen this and one or two other watches they have, I personally would not trust that anything they have is authentic and original. I am overly cautious. If I see one obviously tarted up banger on a car dealers forecourt, I assume that all his cars are of a similar ilk, whether or not that's fair on the vendor.
Let's see what the WUS guys say. It will take them a while they are mostly based in America and probably still in bed.
Excellent feedback chaps - thanks - I'll wait to hear back from the Americans
Seems like at least two, or maybe three of my gut feelings were right. I did look at several other watches from the same ebay seller and I could see that many had been "restored and serviced" and several had new dials. This is what raised my suspicions a bit.
Going back to basics, I fancy a really simple-dialled gold old dress watch. If I'm going for something almost 60 years old, it might as well be something good, so that it has a chance of lasting another 60 years. If 'm looking for something good, it might as well be Omega (I don't really have the cash for another Rolex)
Looks like a standard-dialled Seamaster then....
Seems like at least two, or maybe three of my gut feelings were right. I did look at several other watches from the same ebay seller and I could see that many had been "restored and serviced" and several had new dials. This is what raised my suspicions a bit.
Going back to basics, I fancy a really simple-dialled gold old dress watch. If I'm going for something almost 60 years old, it might as well be something good, so that it has a chance of lasting another 60 years. If 'm looking for something good, it might as well be Omega (I don't really have the cash for another Rolex)
Looks like a standard-dialled Seamaster then....
Omega means Constellation, but theyre massive can of worms compared to old 135/C.601 Seamasters. Id suggest a DateJust. Wearable at 36mm and far less likely to be 'restored' / franko-modded. A similar price and massively better value.
Theyll all be on a leather strap too, as their bracelets were all sold for scrap a few years ago...
Theyll all be on a leather strap too, as their bracelets were all sold for scrap a few years ago...
Put the case and or movement details in here https://www.omegawatches.com/en-gb/vintage-watches...
Re the comment about T on the dial, generally, one T is tritium on the hands and 2 T is hands and dial.
Fwiw Looking at the photos I think it's fair to say it's a tarted up watch, imho worth less than £1k and £0 to me.
Seek out an original piepan constellation or speedmaster both of which I think we're around in 61...
Re the comment about T on the dial, generally, one T is tritium on the hands and 2 T is hands and dial.
Fwiw Looking at the photos I think it's fair to say it's a tarted up watch, imho worth less than £1k and £0 to me.
Seek out an original piepan constellation or speedmaster both of which I think we're around in 61...
Not that easy as it'll be a Dennison or similar case and might not have an Omega reference number on it. Even if it does their site has always been flaky, with extra zeros frequently needing to be inserted to get the known-correct result. 'Unknown' is the common search result.
With Omegas of this age, which were decent quality but VERY different to current watches, or current Omega, you dont have a watch serial number and you cannot be certain of the date of manufacture, use or sale. All that their guesstimate is going on is the date of manufacture of the movement, which does have a serial number. Ive had watches whose movement serial would suggest a year of use/sale three years before the watch was introduced. At best, its an approximate guess.
With Omegas of this age, which were decent quality but VERY different to current watches, or current Omega, you dont have a watch serial number and you cannot be certain of the date of manufacture, use or sale. All that their guesstimate is going on is the date of manufacture of the movement, which does have a serial number. Ive had watches whose movement serial would suggest a year of use/sale three years before the watch was introduced. At best, its an approximate guess.
I am going to be a little contrary.
From that picture it looks nice enough. Maybe more in keeping with today’s tastes than many 60s watches?
Assuming the price is not daft then I would not let a lack of originality bother me that much. It’s not a vintage sub or speedy where originality might be the difference between a £5k or £15k watch. (I don’t mean this in a s
tty way) I can’t really see a decent condition original Geneve being worth much more than £1k- how much does the redial detract from that £200? Maybe.
I guess I would rather have a watch I really liked over an original one that I liked less. I can’t see them ever being very valuable, so better one I would want to wear.
Saying that, I would be looking at an IWC with the Cal 89 movement, arguably one of the greatest watch movements ever made.
https://www.chrono24.co.uk/iwc/caliber-89--id11488...
From that picture it looks nice enough. Maybe more in keeping with today’s tastes than many 60s watches?
Assuming the price is not daft then I would not let a lack of originality bother me that much. It’s not a vintage sub or speedy where originality might be the difference between a £5k or £15k watch. (I don’t mean this in a s
tty way) I can’t really see a decent condition original Geneve being worth much more than £1k- how much does the redial detract from that £200? Maybe.I guess I would rather have a watch I really liked over an original one that I liked less. I can’t see them ever being very valuable, so better one I would want to wear.
Saying that, I would be looking at an IWC with the Cal 89 movement, arguably one of the greatest watch movements ever made.
https://www.chrono24.co.uk/iwc/caliber-89--id11488...
OK - I'm out.....
Whilst I really like the unusual look of the blue dial, I also very much like originality. If it had simply been a well-restored example of a genuine 1961 watch, I'd probably still be tempted, but there are just too many questions about the originality.
The seller seems to do a lot of re-dials, and although the ad for this one says "original restored dial", I'm beginning to wonder if its an original dial from a different watch that has been fitted to an earlier movement.
I'm in the luxurious position of being able to wait for the "right" watch, so the search continues. Who knows, by the time I'm ready to buy, I might have enough for a Rolex Precision or a Datejust, or maybe an IWC (which is now firmly on my radar...)
Whilst I really like the unusual look of the blue dial, I also very much like originality. If it had simply been a well-restored example of a genuine 1961 watch, I'd probably still be tempted, but there are just too many questions about the originality.
The seller seems to do a lot of re-dials, and although the ad for this one says "original restored dial", I'm beginning to wonder if its an original dial from a different watch that has been fitted to an earlier movement.
I'm in the luxurious position of being able to wait for the "right" watch, so the search continues. Who knows, by the time I'm ready to buy, I might have enough for a Rolex Precision or a Datejust, or maybe an IWC (which is now firmly on my radar...)
Have you seen the WUS comments?
I had a sneaking suspicion this wasn't a Seamaster. They don't do valuations over there. By insanely overpriced, they mean that a good clean Seamaster in a solid 9k gold case, not polished all original would go for £600 or under. Being redialled (to a collector) this watch is worth much less.
For £1500 you could buy many nicer watches. You seem to be looking at dress watches. What about a JLC Memovox, or a Futurematic? Both were in production in '61.
A pie pan Constellation is a gorgeous thing and a good one is in budget. However this is one of the most faked vintage watches. If you decide you want one of these, make sure you join WUS and the Omega forum and get expert opinions before handing over any hard earned.
I had a sneaking suspicion this wasn't a Seamaster. They don't do valuations over there. By insanely overpriced, they mean that a good clean Seamaster in a solid 9k gold case, not polished all original would go for £600 or under. Being redialled (to a collector) this watch is worth much less.
For £1500 you could buy many nicer watches. You seem to be looking at dress watches. What about a JLC Memovox, or a Futurematic? Both were in production in '61.
A pie pan Constellation is a gorgeous thing and a good one is in budget. However this is one of the most faked vintage watches. If you decide you want one of these, make sure you join WUS and the Omega forum and get expert opinions before handing over any hard earned.
Yes - I had a good look at the WUS thread - thanks for posting it.
Seems our American friends are a little less backwards at coming forward, and their feedback was quite unambiguous!
I think at my c. £1k budget, I'm running the risks of buying a franken-watch, so maybe I need to spend a bit more to get something very original, with a lot more provenance.
The search continues...
Seems our American friends are a little less backwards at coming forward, and their feedback was quite unambiguous!
I think at my c. £1k budget, I'm running the risks of buying a franken-watch, so maybe I need to spend a bit more to get something very original, with a lot more provenance.
The search continues...
Look at Rolex Nigel. A DateJust could easily still look like new (dial and hands) and be original, and being 'too small' is not fashionable enough to artificially elevate its price. They're 36mm and wear larger. My favourite watch is an OysterDate Precision which is only 34mm, but as with the DateJust, it wears larger.
Im wearing an unusual very early Omega quartz today. More jewels than an Oysterquartz, beautiful starburst blue dial and sapphire crystal (in 1976!), but relatively worthless unless you want to use its movement in a deceased MarineMaster. This is 35mm and it certainly doesnt look large: it probably wears smaller than a 34mm Date of OysterDate though.
Im wearing an unusual very early Omega quartz today. More jewels than an Oysterquartz, beautiful starburst blue dial and sapphire crystal (in 1976!), but relatively worthless unless you want to use its movement in a deceased MarineMaster. This is 35mm and it certainly doesnt look large: it probably wears smaller than a 34mm Date of OysterDate though.
If you can forget about the daft birth year thing for your next purchase, I got a ‘95 Seamaster 300 professional automatic for a little over your budget, and it’s a lovely thing.
The ETA 2892 movement is thin (6mm I think) so it makes for a very sleek dive watch.
Best of luck in your search.
The ETA 2892 movement is thin (6mm I think) so it makes for a very sleek dive watch.
Best of luck in your search.
Nigel_O said:
I think at my c. £1k budget, I'm running the risks of buying a franken-watch, so maybe I need to spend a bit more to get something very original, with a lot more provenance.
Spending more guarantees nothing, just as buying from a dealer doesn't always help. There's a well known online watch magasine that also sells. Their descriptions are as close to accurate as their watches.Long and short, it's a lot to spend on a vintage watch. There are plenty of vendors who will try and pass you off with something duff. I strongly suggest that you (continue to) take advice before spending.
Good luck.
Gassing Station | Watches | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff